Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby inthedrops » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:36 am

theckhd wrote:I also had him despawn on me at 25% the first attempt, which is the first time I've observed this. I was near the center of the room and was being knocked around by the earthquake, but I have no idea what I landed on that triggered it. *shrug*


And so it begins :)

I tried doing center again last time just because it means I can spend more time DPS'ing and less time SoL'ing. But it bugged on me and I said screw it and went back against the wall and just took a beating.

I do the fight in a dps tanking set, which means I only have one actual cooldown to use, and minimal damage reduction talents. Staying at the very far back wall, and only moving a few yards left, then a few yards right to keep mobs in front of me as best I can and it's not bugged on me yet that way. You take a LOT more damage though and health can drop pretty quick. 5/5 Reckoning is in this spec and it probably helps tons.

No buffs or flasks or anything other than Sanctuary. I switched seals a lot, but just tried to keep the Vengeance dot from dropping.

I'm not sure why the duration says 11:46. I guess it counts from when Mag first wakes up and shows up in the combat log. In total, the fight actually took about 14 minutes from when I first hit the channeler.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r57k51h5uvwdd3mn/?s=127&e=833

So if you don't have awesome tanking gear, try just getting crit immune, using Reckoning, and being smart about Holy Wraths and seal switching and I suspect you'll be fine.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:41 am

Yeah, I don't think WoL is counting the first minute or two of the encounter in its time assessment. So your kills take around 14 mins, mine take around 20. That's the difference that a bunch of DPS gear, 5/5 Reckoning, and 3/3 Crusade make though. Next week I may spec specifically for Mag just to see how fast I can get him down.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby inthedrops » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:50 am

How are you handling after he dies? I loot the body and then bubble hearth. Is there a smarter way?

Btw, wanted to thank you for the holy wrath tip. That's the best cooldown in there!

Incidentally, to give some perspective on how much I have to switch to light. Theck's log he only cast it one time in 18 minutes. I cast SoL 18 times in 14 minutes.

Also, in this gear I can't "ride out" in AD range. It'll proc in no time flat.

Edit: Apparently I uploaded an old log where I didn't think to use Holy Wrath. Since I added Holy Wrath to the mix my kill time dropped by a minute. I was wondering why my kill was showing as 14 minutes as I was pretty sure based on the time left of sanctuary I was a minute quicker on my most recent kill. So Holy Wrath bought me an extra minute.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:57 am

inthedrops wrote:How are you handling after he dies? I loot the body and then bubble hearth. Is there a smarter way?

I've been switching to SoL and continuing to melee/cast on the adds while I hit need on all the loot. I usually rocket boot out of the room and back up to the door afterward. I noticed this week that the adds didn't seem to follow me once I was far enough up the ramp, so it's possible they despawn at that point.

inthedrops wrote:Btw, wanted to thank you for the holy wrath tip. That's the best cooldown in there!

Incidentally, to give some perspective on how much I have to switch to light. Theck's log he only cast it one time in 18 minutes. I cast SoL 18 times in 14 minutes.

Also, in this gear I can't "ride out" in AD range. It'll proc in no time flat.

Edit: Apparently I uploaded an old log where I didn't think to use Holy Wrath. Since I added Holy Wrath to the mix my kill time dropped by a minute. I was wondering why my kill was showing as 14 minutes as I was pretty sure based on the time left of sanctuary I was a minute quicker on my most recent kill. So Holy Wrath bought me an extra minute.


Holy Wrath should only be a boss DPS increase when substituted for HS or Judgement though. I have trouble seeing it reduce kill times, unless you're expressly using it when you're just out of melee range. I've mostly been viewing it as a cooldown to reduce damage taken from the infernals.

<edit> Maybe it's an indirect DPS increase? More Holy Wraths means fewer inernal attacks, thus less time swapping to SoL, thus more time with SoV and more DPS?

I haven't had to use SoL at all in subsequent kills. I'm sure that if I switch to more DPS gear, I'd have to use SoL, but my current setup is primarily tank gear with DMC:G and a DPS ring, I think. It seems like the trade-off is shortening the fight slightly vs. largely increased chance of death. However, it's hard to say exactly how much you're shortening the fight - ours differ by about 5-6 minutes, but your spec is significantly different than mine (0/5 Reck, 1/3 Crusade).

I would have expected that mostly tank gear + 100% SoV would be a shorter fight than using DPS gear and having to swap seals fairly often (lost GCDs swapping, lost SoV melee procs, for the moment we can assume you kept the 5-stack up 100%). That's why I plan on optimizing my spec for Mag on Tuesday - I'll use exactly the same gear as last week, but drop DG and Imp HoJ for Crusade and Reckoning. That should give us a better idea how much is gear and how much is spec. I wouldn't be surprised if those two talents alone were responsible for 3-4 minutes of the discrepancy.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby inthedrops » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:00 pm

Cool, will be neat to see how it goes. And btw what I meant about Holy Wrath was that it stuns the demons, allowing me to keep up SoV more. I wasn't using it for DPS. However, I think having done this 3 times now, that I am also just more comfortable with AD range so was able to take more risk. The end result being shaving some time off.

I let SoV drop a couple times due to negligence.

I think having 5/5 reckoning is probably a significant DPS increase, especially in the gear I was wearing.

The other thing I noticed when comparing logs is how much my Sacred Shield procced compared to yours. Incidentally, it's annoying not having Divine Guardian and having to refresh every 30 seconds instead of 60.

You mentioned "largely increased chance of death" in reference to the gear differences. I don't think it's all that large. I think the only way to die in there is if you somehow stop paying attention for ~30 seconds. It's not really that bad.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby Ardrhyst » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:07 pm

For me, the adds despawned after about thirty seconds following the death of Magtheridon.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby theckhd » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:56 pm

inthedrops wrote:I think having 5/5 reckoning is probably a significant DPS increase, especially in the gear I was wearing.


I agree, Reckoning should have nearly 100% uptime, doubling your melee attack rate. That's pretty huge. You probably won't need all 5 points with so many adds attacking you though - 2 or 3 is probably more than enough.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby Bastien » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:52 am

inthedrops wrote:You mentioned "largely increased chance of death" in reference to the gear differences. I don't think it's all that large. I think the only way to die in there is if you somehow stop paying attention for ~30 seconds. It's not really that bad.


I think gear certainly makes a difference. But maybe it's by order of magnitude. It seems that both Inthedrops and Theck are at the T10 Order (not to be a wowarmory troll), while my pally (currently relegated to alt status) is at the T9 Order.

After reading this thread, I thought I'd go take a stab at it and see what I could get done. I pretty much got my ass handed to me. Wiped on the first pack of trash, then remembered to judge Light (oops). After that, I was able to clear the rest of the trash without incident (the death coils are quite annoying).

Held up fine with the summoners and demons pounding on me while waiting for Mag to be released. Once Mag was released, I only managed to get him to 75% or so before being crushed.

I didn't bother to log, but I may give it another shot with logging, just to see where my weaknesses were.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:07 pm

Ok, so, first of all Theck fails @ logging. Here's what I logged, it was the first three attempts, all of which resulted in despawns. I then loaded up DBM for timers (which ended up not working anyhow), which turned off logging apparently. I had one more despawn attempt before killing him.

The spec I used is what I have on the armory right now, 53/18 with 4/5 Reck and 0/2 SA.

I think I've figured out what was causing the despawns. Each one happened after an earthquake that sent me fairly far towards one of the edges. Each time I was running back to the center immediately to try and keep the boss from getting near the raised sections where the channeling orbs are, under the assumption that he was despawning because either I or he was trying to stand on the raised section and getting a pathing error.

However, the final time he despawned, it was without me ever walking over the bump or him ever leaving the center of the room (I used Rocket Boots to close distance faster). Which lead me to guess at a different cause - maybe it had something to do with his prediction algorithm after the earthquake?

The final attempt, I just stopped moving if the earthquake knocked me out of his melee range. I'd wait for him to come to me, and then I'd engage as normal and slowly move him back to the center. It didn't seem to matter if I was near the orbs, though neither of us ever ended up on one.

Next week I'll (hopefully) log the kill properly and get a time estimate to compare to the previous spec.
Last edited by theckhd on Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby Bastien » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:03 am

theckhd wrote:Ok, so, first of all Theck fails @ logging. Here's what I logged, it was the first three attempts, all of which resulted in despawns. I then loaded up DBM for timers (which ended up not working anyhow), which turned off logging apparently. I had one more despawn attempt before killing him.

....


Fixt. :)
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby theckhd » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:16 am

Bastien wrote:
theckhd wrote:Ok, so, first of all Theck fails @ logging. Here's what I logged, it was the first three attempts, all of which resulted in despawns. I then loaded up DBM for timers (which ended up not working anyhow), which turned off logging apparently. I had one more despawn attempt before killing him.

....


Fixt. :)


Bah, apparently Theck fails at linking as well. Thanks.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby theckhd » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:30 pm

One-shot kill this week. Here's the log, I'll take a closer look at it when I have some time.

No despawning issues this week. I just stood still after every earthquake and waited for him to get into melee range, then moved him back to the center. Didn't seem to matter if I or he ended up on a raised section of floor. I think the despawning issues were a pathing bug related to us moving after earthquake.
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby knaughty » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:44 pm

I'm going to go in this week and give it a go for the laughs. Assuming that you had every single piece of 277 ret gear from ICC, what would you wear? I was thinking Tiny Abom trinket over DMCG (have both) and the 277 Flawless Fang for the CD. Reckoning/Crusade spec because I bore easily.

Haven't thought about rings or weapon. Prob exalted ICC tanking ring and the 284 tank weapon from LK. Which DPS ring would you wear?
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby inthedrops » Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:40 am

knaughty wrote:I'm going to go in this week and give it a go for the laughs. Assuming that you had every single piece of 277 ret gear from ICC, what would you wear? I was thinking Tiny Abom trinket over DMCG (have both) and the 277 Flawless Fang for the CD. Reckoning/Crusade spec because I bore easily.

Haven't thought about rings or weapon. Prob exalted ICC tanking ring and the 284 tank weapon from LK. Which DPS ring would you wear?


I go in with reckoning, uncrittable, and about 32k health due to all the ret gear. Do it!
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Re: Solo Magtheridon possible for a paladin?

Postby knaughty » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:33 am

inthedrops wrote:I go in with reckoning, uncrittable, and about 32k health due to all the ret gear. Do it!

My ret tier-gear is only 264 - my 277 plate pieces are all the off-set stuff.

Still, I could go in with 5-piece 277 tanking gear...

OK - check armoury in an hour or so :P
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