[H] DPS o.o

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[H] DPS o.o

Postby Mithrumil » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:41 am

I recently started into heroics and a little naxx when I can get the group.

Sometimes my groups can make it through a dungeon easily, and other times it seems like we are destined to wipe. My gear has only increased, so I know it is not me wiping the group, and I use the same healer everytime, as he is the main friend I play with. This leaves me to suspect my DPS of the wipes.

I got a DPS meter and began looking at DPS of some of the people who want to do heroics with me. My DPS on my pally usually sits around 1350, and I have been noticing that alot of DPS in my groups will sit just above that or maybe even as low as the 1k mark.

This leads me to my main question, what should I expect a heroic DPS to be able to put out? Is it normal for a tankadin to do more dps than his dps or is it reasonable to expect them to be more around twice what I do? I haven't played a dps class since pre-BC so I really have no idea what I am looking for.

Thanks,
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Postby Vanifae » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:48 am

They should be at least closer to 2k if they are competent and not under geared.
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Postby Mithrumil » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:52 am

Vanifae wrote:They should be at least closer to 2k if they are competent and not under geared.


That is what I was hoping. Time to start filtering out the undergeared from my teams :D
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Postby kenshin648 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:54 pm

When there are locks in your group, you will need to measure their dps against a boss mob only because they typically do crap dps against trash (at least afflict does). However, if people are doing less than 1.2k dps, they shouldnt be doing heroics. 1.6k+ dps is prefered, but 1.2k dps isnt THAT bad.
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Postby Vanifae » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:13 pm

kenshin648 wrote:When there are locks in your group, you will need to measure their dps against a boss mob only because they typically do crap dps against trash (at least afflict does). However, if people are doing less than 1.2k dps, they shouldnt be doing heroics. 1.6k+ dps is prefered, but 1.2k dps isnt THAT bad.

Warlocks seed anyways.
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Postby majiben » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:36 pm

Seed is no were near where it used to be for some reason or another.

I won't take less than 1400 single target dps for heroics. That's what someone is 90% upper 70s blue gear should be doings which is what's intended for early heroics.
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Postby Threatco » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:23 am

How much DPS should they be doing? Well that number depends on your goals and expectations.

Is it common to out dps some of the people you bring? Yes, very.

Going into heorics with all blue boe gear I would expect a tankadin to pull 1200-1300 dps on average during the run. This number goes up fast as you get some raiding gear to 1500-1600 average, and possibly over 2000 on some heroics that favor us.

Now a dps class coming into heroics with blue gear and new to 80 will likely do less. The only exception I have seen is DKs. Everyone else sits at around 1100-1400 until they start getting epics.

It is important to note, I value other things as well as pure DPS. Many classes if played right bring great benefits to the group, even if not geared enough for high dps.

You can tell usualy if a person is skilled with their class based on if they are doing as much DPS as their gear should allow.

A blue geared hunter pull 1400 is most likely doing more for the group then an epic geared hunter pulling the same 1400. Because this shows the epic geared hunter is clueless.

So this is basicly the guide I go by. If they can't pull DPS that at least matches their gear, then they are a burden.

A burden in the sense that even if they don't wipe you, and even if they are usuing their support abilities, they will never grow into anything better, where as that blue hunter 2-3 weeks from now will be 3k dps and you will want him on your friends list.
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Postby elite » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:29 am

tbh 1600 dps shoudl be a minimum for dps on heroics ... and easly obtainable whitout heroci drops just good choise blue quest rewards ...

and even at that the 1600 dps is somthign ill set as minimum for rogue , druid , most other dps i asume 1900 atleast tbh ...

I when tanking heroics can easly obtain 1600 dps i think my max was 1800 in CoS heroic but thats undead flavor land hehe :)

I usualy start my heroics with the sentance

tank service message --> I am the tank if your dps is under mine you fail at playing and should learn to gear / play . <-- tank service message

And that is about all I say in groups :p ... i just pull / tank / kill I dont engage in social contact with Pugs .
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Postby elfjorc » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:33 am

People with a brain should be able to hit 2k on heroic bosses easy.

Hell, my 74 Priest was doing 2600 ish in Violet Hold.
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Postby Threatco » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:40 am

I think he is looking at the trash over all data, which in my often disagreed with opinion is 100x more important in heroics then boss dps.
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Postby Seloei » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:18 am

Thats the thing... about pugs... theres rarelly... rarelly anyone good in there that can push out more than 1.5k dps. Atleast, most of the ones who i've seen, even if epic geared.

Theres not much you can do to improve that besides hoping they learn how to play their class and making a friends list of the competent ones you've seen. Once you have enough there, start asking them if they would be up for another run in X instance.

but... for a fresh lvl80 with an inkling of an idea with just quest greens/blues AND lvl80 skills learned you should see them hit atleast 1.4k single target, skilled ones with just that gear can push it upto 2-2.5k even.
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Postby Belarkan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:32 am

elfjorc wrote:People with a brain should be able to hit 2k on heroic bosses easy.

Hell, my 74 Priest was doing 2600 ish in Violet Hold.


It doesn't work that way.
If you priest had 70 epics he will see his dps fall because the rating -> percentage conversion will increase.

Also, when you start with non epics DPS they are around the same dps as you do as tank.
Their dps will scale much better than yours with iLvl increasing.

From what I have seen:
- dps under 1K are a total failure.
- dps in blues should be around 1500 dps up to 2000.

Edit:
Also, don't forget that dps may also change a lot depending on the available buffs.
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Postby elfjorc » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:46 am

Belarkan wrote:
elfjorc wrote:People with a brain should be able to hit 2k on heroic bosses easy.

Hell, my 74 Priest was doing 2600 ish in Violet Hold.


It doesn't work that way.
If you priest had 70 epics he will see his dps fall because the rating -> percentage conversion will increase.

Also, when you start with non epics DPS they are around the same dps as you do as tank.
Their dps will scale much better than yours with iLvl increasing.

From what I have seen:
- dps under 1K are a total failure.
- dps in blues should be around 1500 dps up to 2000.

Edit:
Also, don't forget that dps may also change a lot depending on the available buffs.


Ratings will go down sure, while gaining upgrades to weaker slots, such as Cloak, neck, belt, boots, weapon etc, not to mention stat increases and new spell ranks. Levelling doesn't decrease dps.

2k unbuffed is the pretty much the bottom rung for competency, there's no reason people couldn't start out at a minimum of 2.5-3k the moment they hit 80 if they know their stuff.
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Postby inthedrops » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:55 am

Blanket statements that say you should do X dps kind of hit a nerve with me. Not because they're wrong or that I disagree, but mostly because I feel helpless sometimes.

One of my alts is a rogue. And I know how to play the thing. Rogue's currently got the shaft at low levels, especially if there are no buffs in the party that benefit us like might, kings, shout, etc.

I struggled badly at entry level heroics to get 1200 dps. It took buffs to break 1k. First thing I did was respec mutilate from combat and that helped by about 200 dps to the point that I was doing 1200 without buffs (all green/blue gear).

Rogue's definetely need some loving. If you don't have anyone in your party like a warrior or paladin then rogue dps will likely be pretty low. It doesn't help that most instances are big AoE fests. Althuogh the recent change to fan of knives did help me feel slightly less worthless.

I break 2k dps no problem now without any buffs, 2500+ with a buff or two. But it took raid gear just to get to that point. Fights like 25 man patchwerk I do 4k dps for reference.

I'm not really a fan of rogues :)
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Postby Inukshuk » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:02 am

inthedrops wrote:Blanket statements that say you should do X dps kind of hit a nerve with me. Not because they're wrong or that I disagree, but mostly because I feel helpless sometimes.

One of my alts is a rogue. And I know how to play the thing. Rogue's currently got the shaft at low levels, especially if there are no buffs in the party that benefit us like might, kings, shout, etc.

I struggled badly at entry level heroics to get 1200 dps. It took buffs to break 1k. First thing I did was respec mutilate from combat and that helped by about 200 dps to the point that I was doing 1200 without buffs (all green/blue gear).

Rogue's definetely need some loving. If you don't have anyone in your party like a warrior or paladin then rogue dps will likely be pretty low. It doesn't help that most instances are big AoE fests. Althuogh the recent change to fan of knives did help me feel slightly less worthless.

I break 2k dps no problem now without any buffs, 2500+ with a buff or two. But it took raid gear just to get to that point. Fights like 25 man patchwerk I do 4k dps for reference.

I'm not really a fan of rogues :)


Posts like this make me feel a lot better about my rogue, who can put out just over 2K DPS on movement-free boss fights,but is generally closer to 1700. I don't have raid gear yet, but I'm definitely heroic-geared. It's a combination of the great scaling rogues get from buffs and the DPS killer that is movement fights (whirlwinds, poison clouds, you name it). When they're all buffed out, rogues are fine. In a 5 man where you're getting horn of winter and nothing else, it's rough to push much more than 2K DPS unless you're very heavily geared. At least it is for me.
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