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10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

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10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Ribet » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:14 am

Long time reader, first time poster here.

We hit Blackfuse last week and got caught up on him before the week's end. One of the more consistent problems we ran into on the fight was the killing of the shredders. My warrior co-tank could kill both his shredders. I could kill my first one but when my second shredder came into play during magnetic crush, I can't kill it before the debuff wears off.

Are any other paladin tanks having trouble here? I tried fishing for youtube video. One pally got stuck on his second shredder but the raid kill Blackfuse before he got in trouble. Another had a hunter a spriest help when the shredder was taking 200% more damage and the Method video I found had Treckie on his monk. ><
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Sagara » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:41 am

Use fire lines as MUCH as you can. They deal a shitton of damage to the shredder and will help a ton to reach your time. Also, exploit the post-jump 200% damage debuff he gets.

Sorry, I'm mid-raid so I'll post something more proper a tad later ;-) Got any WoL btw?
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Belloc » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:52 pm

First thing's first: Don't pull the boss from range -- use a speed boost and get up in his face when you pull. When you pull him, he'll cast his first debuff on you and, if you're at range, it will miss. This happened to me a few times and can cause DPS issues on the add. (It appears you're already doing this, but I'm mentioning it just in case).

Second, taunt swap at 3 stacks of the debuff. 2 stacks can sometimes hurt and 3 stacks ALWAYS hurts, but that's why you have cooldowns. Use DP on the third stack and hope that shields can handle the second stack. If you're having trouble killing it with 2 stacks, then 3 stacks is the obvious answer. (Though, looking at your logs, it appears that you're already doing this).

Third, and this one appears to be the one that would probably benefit you most, always tank the add on a sawblade. If the sawblades are all too close to the boss, then your ranged/healers need to stay at max range and run the sawblades out as they're being cast. The damage from the sawblades ends up being a sizeable chunk of their health. If the add appears to turn a reddish color, you're doing it right. You, yourself, need never touch the sawblade.

Looking at your logs, your longest attempt (just over 5 minutes) showed the Shredders taking 11 ticks of Serrated Slash (sawblades). Your final attempt of the night had 0 ticks! Compare that to our 6:10 minute kill where we had 117 ticks of Serrated Slash on the add. This is probably the most important change you need to make here.

Fourth, when they jump up into the air, make sure they're going to crash back down onto that sawblade. Again, they do a lot of damage to the shredders.

Finally, and this should rarely be the case, but, if your stacks fall off, you need to drag the add into healing range and swap with the other tank. The healing on the adds was pretty negligible in 25-man, so I'd imagine it's similar in 10-man. Get in there and have the other tank run over and kill that add ASAP!



edit: Some other thoughts: I've already said how important sawblades are when killing the adds... but I didn't mention that, if you have multiple sawblades close by, you can tank the add in more than one sawblade at once! Case in point: Our 6:10 kill had 117 ticks from sawblades, but our 5:14 wipe had 251 ticks! That ended up accounting for 19.4% of the damage to the adds -- higher than any other source of damage. This isn't always going to be possible (or, rather, it IS always possible, but it requires your ranged to position in a way to pull it off), but anytime you have two sawblades close to each other, make sure to tank the add inside both of them.

Remember: To get the sawblades far enough away from the boss to prevent healing, you need to have your ranged/heals at max range and running away as soon as the boss targets them and starts casting the sawblades. Perhaps mark a spot and instruct your raiders to run to that area every time, so that you'll get multiple sawblades in that one spot.

I would also suggest using some of your off-time to try to get some heroic ToT trinkets (Openraid is an excellent place to find groups). The haste trinket from Horridon is excellent for increasing your survivability and damage. The haste is of obvious benefit and the strength procs serve a dual purpose: Strength increases your damage AND your parry. In other words, it's a damage and survivability trinket. The Ji-kun hit/str trinket isn't bad, either, but the proc duration nerf makes it a little less useful than it was in 5.2 and 5.3
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Ribet » Wed Sep 25, 2013 4:32 pm

I appriciate the pointers. Two quick things though, do you do anything differently during Magnetic Crush? And is it standard for a prot pally to struggle slightly on this fight?
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Xfighter » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:22 pm

I've never struggled, as with 3 stacks, you're pretty much able to completely destroy the add during his stun from Death from Above. I roll with glyphed AS, since there's nothing to cleave, and save up some holy power before he jumps up. Once he comes down, he takes sawblade damage (or fire if no blades), and a swift AS+Shield+CS/Judge+Shield usually gets him pretty close to hammer of wrath range. I usually finish my add 10+ seconds or so before I need to taunt off my co-tank.


He sometimes struggles (he's a warrior), but most of that comes down to either keeping the add close to the boss for too long, or not utilizing the blades/fire quick enough. The quicker you get him into one of those, the easier your life will be for getting him down in time.
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Winkle » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:20 am

I can't say i've paid special attention to dragging my add through blades or drills/fires but i haven't had an issue with the adds. My add uusally dies well before the next spawns.

I can only think you're mishandling the debuff or not making best use of vengance as i don't see the additional damage from blades, etc. being mandatory.

Having said all the it's interesting to note that both method and midwinter chose not to use their paladin maintanks for the fight on hc. I wonder if that was down to dps concerns, my initial thought was perhaps it was more a mobility issue.

EDIT: Treckie tanked Siege hc on his pala.
Last edited by Winkle on Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Sagara » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:25 am

I would have also said there was no DPS issues that I know of even WITHOUT Blades/Fire, but then again, tackling this boss with ~550 ilvl helps a ton. I can see someone with over 10 ilvl less struggling at times.

I really don't think we're bad in the DPS department, honestly.
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby Belloc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:49 am

Ribet wrote:I appriciate the pointers. Two quick things though, do you do anything differently during Magnetic Crush? And is it standard for a prot pally to struggle slightly on this fight?

Magnetic Crush is one of those rare occurrences when you may need to bring the add into healing range so that your other tank can grab it and finish it off.

The difficulty of this fight stays relatively constant for the entire encounter, so you may want to consider holding onto Avenging Wrath (and Holy Avenger, if you're specced for it) for adds where you cannot make good/any use of sawblades (such as Magnetic Crush). Alternatively, you can spec into Divine Purpose and hope for lots of free SotR procs while you're tanking adds.

Odds are that your DPS problem will go away as your gear improves.
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Re: 10N Siegecrafter Blackfuse

Postby PsiVen » Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:25 pm

Standing the add in saw blades and fire will definitely help, but should not really be necessary. On our first pulls we were taunt swapping out of sync and that led to mediocre vengeance for the add tank. You want to swap at the last possible second as the add spawns so that you both get full debuffs and vengeance to kill it with.

With the saw blades and fire, the adds can easily die before they even cast Death From Above. Definitely use them if they're convenient.

It wouldn't surprise me if Method favored Brewmaster tanks here given their insane damage output, especially before the 10% nerf. Paladins are perfectly fine at bursting them down though.
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