[10H] Twin Consorts

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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Riemu » Wed May 15, 2013 7:53 am

We had about 25 pulls on those two. Currently standing at 5/13 - 522 average.

2 Tanks (prot pally/brm) - 3 Heal (pally, disc, shaman) - 5 DPS

Any tips von positioning in P2 / P3?

I believe we lose too much DPS by moving because comets are further away / people get knocked back by fire lane charge and stuff like that

We also have insanely high stacks in P3 (like 20ish) and keep dying to the random AoE. We also have alot of comets "fizzle" on us. How can that be avoided? Obviously, don't position the boss between 2 comets etc. and only have her in range of one. But it looks like comets get fizzled by Fire Lane, or people standing next to them or sth like hat. Is there another mechanic we don't know about?

Also, are you supposed to put her next to the comet immediatelly (if you dont need it for nuclear)? Or are you supposed to wait for like 5 stacks on her before pulling her near a comet? (heard sth about that in a video). Also, does it matter how near she is? or is it ok as long as the stacks / comet hp get reduced?

I feel if we can figure out that part of the fight, we will have a kill pretty soon - everything else seems stable
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby quotey » Wed May 15, 2013 8:04 am

It doesn't matter how close she is to the comet, so long as she has the debuff. On comet fizzling, I've no idea. We had a comet completely disappear when it was at full health, just after a tidal force last night and had to heal through the inferno.

We just move her next to non inferno comets whenever one spawns. Never waited for stacks or anything like that.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Wed May 15, 2013 8:06 pm

Suen does Light of Day on people. Light of DAy has an 8-yard splash and instantly melts comets.

TLDR: Don't stand within 8 yards of comets.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Riemu » Tue May 28, 2013 6:51 am

Hi Guys,

short questions regarding Twins HC. I'm solo tanking boss+beast+add - our Monk tank is handling suen in P1.
I'm trying to optimize my Damage on Lulin in P1.

What's your playstyle here? Glyphs? CD Management?

I'm currently going with AS/FS/BH and FW. My Focus lies on finishing the Beasts fast and then focus on the Boss.
I don't wanna waste any Damage on the Adds and rather put it on the Boss instead. Only cleave I do is HoTR and Consecration on the adds.
Our Raid usually does no Damage on the Adds - 1-2 WL/Shadow for some extra proccs. I'm trying to maximize the Add Uptime so I have higher levels of Vengeance.
There are hard spikes nevertheless when I tank 10+ Adds and the Beast is up. I use Cons/HoTR to eventually kill some, so I don't have 20+ up (which will prolly gib me?)

How are you guys using your cooldowns here? HA at pull for maximized damage? Or at the first beast phase? (will lose one HA then in P1 though).

I'll then take Suen at the beginning of P2 while tanking the remaining 10+ Adds for 2 Stacks. (our offtank couldn't keep aggro anyways, rocking about 250k Vengeance at this point)
After that we switch at 2 stacks, always using DP for the 2nd stack.

I usually don't have trouble surviving. Only two rocky situations. P1 when I have Beast + 10+ adds and P2 when RNG gibs me (1st stack for which I dont have a cd, aoe tick, light of day or stuff like that). Only happened twice in 40 tries though.

Do you have some tips? Anything to improve?


Another thing:

HP oder LH? HP allows me to heal up after barrage (if it heals the right person though.. not sure how HP chooses its heal targets... doesn't look that intelligent to me...)
LH can be used every other Nuklear? Combined with our 2nd Pally, we would have LH for every Nuclear. Probably better?
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Grommash » Tue May 28, 2013 3:10 pm

LH is probably the best for nuclears. Prot Paladin LHs are beast.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Wed May 29, 2013 6:28 pm

I usually don't have trouble surviving. Only two rocky situations. P1 when I have Beast + 10+ adds and P2 when RNG gibs me (1st stack for which I dont have a cd, aoe tick, light of day or stuff like that). Only happened twice in 40 tries though.

Do you have some tips? Anything to improve?


I would say the issue at having 10 adds is probably because the clear isn't being done correctly, and if your other tank can't keep threat, he/she probably isn't completely aware of Suen's mechanics in p1.

Suen has a normal aggro table in P1. On the pull, and during Tears, when she's hidden, she continues to take damage and generate threat on people.
EVery time she comes out for Tears, she will pop up at the highest threat target. I'm the person who does it in our raid, so as a Bear on the pull I go up with an FFF and a Thrash before she disappears, I may have to taunt her the first time, but I ensure that I do enough Mangling and other damage spells to ensure that from that point on she will always pop out at me.

Beyond that, your clear has to be focused on targetting the largest cluster. I think the most we've ever had to deal with on a clear has been 5-6? Part of that is because as adds are forming and shadowbolting, a route is being planned. Also, Suen moves faster with speed boosts during Tears. So for me, I use Cat+Dash and so on, hopefully your tank is using the tools that he/she has, and you can also use Stamp Roars as necessary.

Similarly as a result, that tank should have several million threat on Suen when she spawns in Day. She doesn't clear threat; so he should have a prettty significant advantage and not something where you pull it off within 5 seconds. Worst case, have him/her take a hit from Lu'lin before she disappears.

Definitely LH over HP imo. The first Nuclear is basically the hard part of the fight from that point on.

If you use HA after the end of the first Tears, you can use it again in P1 on the 4th Tears/3rd Beast. I know I can do that with Stamp which is also a 2 min cd. You'll probably get a few seconds on the first Beast as well that way.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Donatist » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:08 am

Try sitting while tanking Lulin too, you get lots of vengeance. I think i get in the neighborhood of around 30%. She can crit for 400k though so try to only sit when you are at 100% or ShoTr is up.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Schroom » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:01 am

really easy Boss, kileld it on our first night of Progression. the only hard thing about it is the DPS check,. killed it about 20 seconds into enrage. (AD procc + BUbble/taunt until the Boss starts casting ftw.)
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby stevos » Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:02 am

When do you guys use hero/lust?

Icy veins recommends p2, but to me p3 seems better.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Fenrìr » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:05 pm

We lust at the start of p2 just to push suen lower. P3 lust is just a waste imo because you really should have suen sub 15% at worst.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby stevos » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:09 am

It was a little too easy a kill in the end.

Used it at start of p2
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Schroom » Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:03 am

Fenrìr wrote:We lust at the start of p2 just to push suen lower. P3 lust is just a waste imo because you really should have suen sub 15% at worst.

this
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:40 pm

As long as you do it when targets are not immune, and when all 10 people are out (aka not when someone's activating Constellations), it doesn't make much of a difference.

You don't exactly have a hard time in Dush Phase unless you go long enough to have 3 Tidal Forces, so Heroing there just means you can use the extra Haste on top of a little bit of cleave/multidot.

Hero'ing on Suen just means you have probably one less Inferno to worry about, maybe skip a TF if the timings line up. But like I said, as long as you're not having 3 TF's, there's no real danger. Pick one and go.

Suen WILL line up so that it lets you take advantage of second round of 3-min cd's. After the first TF in Dusk will line up to let you take advantage of second round of 3-min cd's, and second round of 5-min cd's, and will let multi-dot/Cleave take advantage of it for 30 seconds (you're guaranteed to have a 10-second span where one is doing TF or Inferno so you can only single target there)
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:07 pm

Few cool tricks we use.

If you have a dps start the fight by pulling fire, she is perma ago on that dps no matter what you do during the dark phase.
So we just have that dps stand near where the most shadow adds are so that she will spawn and run to him instantly. we use a mage so we can them blink to another group of adds, pretty much clears them out ever tears.

Also we start dragon buff as soon as day starts, that kills the rng of the 1st meteor.

Hope that helps.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:49 pm

If you have a dps start the fight by pulling fire, she is perma ago on that dps no matter what you do during the dark phase.
So we just have that dps stand near where the most shadow adds are so that she will spawn and run to him instantly. we use a mage so we can them blink to another group of adds, pretty much clears them out ever tears.


Note: Suen has a normal threat table. She will pop up on the person who is highest threat, and will continue to follow that person only so long as they remain highest threat, and continues to be tauntable etc.

This means that if you pull with a Hunter autoshooting, he WILL be overtaken by the Priest running dots through while she's up. What you're probably noticing is merely that the person you have who does the pull (the Mage) is also coincidentally the person who does most damage to Suen.

This also means that it's REALLY easy for tanks to rip threat off, especially since healing threat also counts.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:11 pm

Darielle wrote:
If you have a dps start the fight by pulling fire, she is perma ago on that dps no matter what you do during the dark phase.
So we just have that dps stand near where the most shadow adds are so that she will spawn and run to him instantly. we use a mage so we can them blink to another group of adds, pretty much clears them out ever tears.


Note: Suen has a normal threat table. She will pop up on the person who is highest threat, and will continue to follow that person only so long as they remain highest threat, and continues to be tauntable etc.

This means that if you pull with a Hunter autoshooting, he WILL be overtaken by the Priest running dots through while she's up. What you're probably noticing is merely that the person you have who does the pull (the Mage) is also coincidentally the person who does most damage to Suen.

This also means that it's REALLY easy for tanks to rip threat off, especially since healing threat also counts.


This is untrue. We have used this method with both a mage and a boomkin (with the cat blink) every time.

If someone hits Suen to start the fight they will have 100% threat no matter what untill the start of day. Yes taunt does work, but after the taunt buff wears off she will return to the player that started the pull.

We have all dps targeting her during tears and no one pulls off our mage/boomkin who isnt even dpsing, they are running in a circle around the outside of the room.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:09 pm

This is untrue. We have used this method with both a mage and a boomkin (with the cat blink) every time.

If someone hits Suen to start the fight they will have 100% threat no matter what untill the start of day. Yes taunt does work, but after the taunt buff wears off she will return to the player that started the pull.

We have all dps targeting her during tears and no one pulls off our mage/boomkin who isnt even dpsing, they are running in a circle around the outside of the room.


If this were in any way true, than there is no possibility for us on progression to have had our Shadow Priest dot Suen on the pull and for me to taunt over and maintain threat on Suen after (more Heart-Cat deeps)
It would also have made it impossible for me to rip off Psiven on the pulls where she popped up on him because he had the most threat, because Suen would have been wanting to play with him "mo matter what until the start of day".
It would also have made it impossible for her to pop on Psiven, since his only threat on her was healing threat and possibly bouncing AS's or Holy Prism anyway.
It would have been even more impossible for our Holy Paladin, also on progression, to do the revealing, taunting off said Shadow Priest and maintaining threat with healing aggro and RF after.

I'm sure your Mage and Boomkin aren't silly enough to do no dps, they're almost definitely doing instant casts or movement damage, using Ice Floes, Scorch, Starsurge procs, casting on her after Blinking etc.

Given that it's an extremely reasonable scenario to reconcile the two by assuming competence and their ability to do a ton of damage to Suen, it seems entirely unrealistic to assume a set of contradictory conditions and suggest incompetence on their part by suggesting that they actually don't dps.
Last edited by Darielle on Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Belloc » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:48 pm

Rokh wrote:
Darielle wrote:
If you have a dps start the fight by pulling fire, she is perma ago on that dps no matter what you do during the dark phase.
So we just have that dps stand near where the most shadow adds are so that she will spawn and run to him instantly. we use a mage so we can them blink to another group of adds, pretty much clears them out ever tears.


Note: Suen has a normal threat table. She will pop up on the person who is highest threat, and will continue to follow that person only so long as they remain highest threat, and continues to be tauntable etc.

This means that if you pull with a Hunter autoshooting, he WILL be overtaken by the Priest running dots through while she's up. What you're probably noticing is merely that the person you have who does the pull (the Mage) is also coincidentally the person who does most damage to Suen.

This also means that it's REALLY easy for tanks to rip threat off, especially since healing threat also counts.


This is untrue. We have used this method with both a mage and a boomkin (with the cat blink) every time.

If someone hits Suen to start the fight they will have 100% threat no matter what untill the start of day. Yes taunt does work, but after the taunt buff wears off she will return to the player that started the pull.

We have all dps targeting her during tears and no one pulls off our mage/boomkin who isnt even dpsing, they are running in a circle around the outside of the room.

It sounds to me like your tank isn't generating threat on Suen when she's up, because your description of this effect is inconsistent with my experience and many others'.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:50 pm

I said if you wish to change her target taunt works... and you use examples where you taunted... and running and blinking to clear 100% of all ghosts = low dps, but for the sake of the example I said no dps.. big deal.

My guess is you are starting the fight on darky and you dont pull on suen, I believe she just time stamps her threat when she vanishes for the 1st time and if no one touches her on the pull then everyone is even....

Have been killing it this way for months, no reason to lie... her threat does not leave the player that pulls her unless you choose to taunt for some reason i dont see why though.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Darielle » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:26 am

I said if you wish to change her target taunt works... and you use examples where you taunted


Not quite. There are also examples of healing threat from the tank pulling her off people if they aren't touching her. I also don't actually taunt, and if I generate no threat, then she will be ripped off me (which has happened).

That is exactly how the threat mechanic works on who Suen will pop and chase. Assuming you have Omen, you can see threat on her pretty clearly, and it does nothing special. I'd love to see a video or some kind of evidence where you have other people above your Mage or Boomkin on threat (by 130% of course) and Suen will just makes love to him while other people wail on her. Or for them to do one cast on her on the pull and ignore her the entire time and she just Spins on them. Because that's the mechanic you're suggesting happens, and it goes counter to every experience other people have had.

Like I said, it's extremely reasonable to reconcile that your Mage or Boomkin are just doing good damage and being competent.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:43 pm

Not to switch subjects... but has anyone had an issue with the commets vanishing?

Took us almost 2 hours this week to down this boss because our commets would land, then just poof gone at 85%hp or more.

We could not figure out why, at first we thought it was if the commet targeted the person drawing maybe when they went down it vanished, but we tried an attempt with no drawing and they still vanished at 80% hp... we finaly just got lucky and everything worked as normal on an attempt.


Does anyone know what causes this?
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Sagara » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:37 pm

ISn't that Suen's Light of Day targeting someone close by a comet? It kills it instantly.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Schroom » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:54 pm

Sagara wrote:ISn't that Suen's Light of Day targeting someone close by a comet? It kills it instantly.



exactly. Comets disappearing, means someone stood close to the comet.
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Rokh » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:20 am

derp
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Re: [10H] Twin Consorts

Postby Magnilda » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:42 am

Does the light of day ability target tanks? When I'm tanking them can I still stand on the blue patch to get the damage reduction?
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