[10H] Council of Elders

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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Rokh » Wed May 15, 2013 10:27 pm

This fight.... man.... really shows you who in your guild is a derp.


Have most of the heroics on farm, only ones not down yet are this, twins, and lei shen.

4 nights on this, cant get past frost king.. not even kidding... 100+ attemps and we cant even get past 2 frostbites.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Wed May 15, 2013 11:28 pm

Riemu wrote:
a) how do you handle the Frigid Stacks without people getting killed/critted during? Or doesn't he melee while he builds stacks? We have Holy P / Fury Warri available for ping-pong


oh he does melee. The player who taunts has to be at max range, use a speedbuff or something, kite him for a couple of seconds. same with the second player before the tank taunts back again. As long as the boss is out of meleerange he can't hit you.

that's why I don't like this strategy. To risky and I don't see the benefit. Tanks do as much, if not more DPS here than some real DPS players.

I save all my offensive cooldowns for Marli when she gets possessed and joins the meleecamp as we want her out of possession asap. so me and my tankpartner are usually Number one DPS on Marli.

Riemu wrote:
b) how do you handle the healing add on mar-li or mar-li in general? You just build some ranged aggro on her and then just let her cast while you tank the other stuff far away?


on the pull I go for her immediately and drag her next to the stairs (where you continue to Tortos after the fight) being a pally tank I interrupt the first cast with my Shield. which makes it so much easier to drag her over as you still got your regular interupt if needed for the seond cast. While dragging her I build some threat until she's in position. (about 4-6 seconds). then I sprint to the meleecamp (which is about where Garajal floats before the start of the fight.) taunt Sul off of the other tank until he gets his stacks from Malakk. Marli continues to cast on me the whole time. It's a little bit of a pain when I taunt Malakk and get my frostbites while Marli is casting on me. I keep my GoAk for this, ask for painsup/Sac.

as the first round of possessions is fix and Marli is the second Boss to be possessed we wait until we killed the second healing Loa ghost and then interrupt Marli until she reaches me. Usually if the timing is right, she gets possessed right that moment. again we wait for the second time she makes those dark copies, after which the tank who is tanking Sul at that moment drags him out to the former position of Marli (and we move our meleecamp there).

that's about as far as we got yet after about 50 pulls.


Riemu wrote:Is solo tanking that much more viable then two tanking?


I would only recommend it if you have a druid tank.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bellanka » Thu May 16, 2013 6:17 am

Riemu wrote:Hey Guys!

I have two questions regarding solo tanking

a) how do you handle the Frigid Stacks without people getting killed/critted during? Or doesnt he melee while he builds stacks? We have Holy P / Fury Warri available for ping-pong

b) how do you handle the healing add on mar-li or mar-li in general? You just build some ranged aggro on her and then just let her cast while you tank the other stuff far away?


Is solo tanking that much more viable then two tanking?


Re: Mar'li

I use a macro that targets her specifically with Judgment, since it's not directionally dependent on cast. Should be enough to keep her on you the whole time.

As for her add: Shadow Priest with Void Tendrils is a lifesaver there. If no Shadow Priest, check what stuns you have available and how fast it dies.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Thu May 16, 2013 6:19 pm

Rokh wrote:This fight.... man.... really shows you who in your guild is a derp.


Have most of the heroics on farm, only ones not down yet are this, twins, and lei shen.

4 nights on this, cant get past frost king.. not even kidding... 100+ attemps and we cant even get past 2 frostbites.


You did Heroic Animus before Council? Wow.

Call out 5 seconds before a frost bite goes out for your range to be watching their head. You have a GCD to react and on some classes you can immune it. If frostbites are that much of a problem for your guild I would pile mass defensive CDs into the first one and just let the second frost bite die. If you push Marli through her second empowerment right as a frost bite goes out you shouldn't have to deal with another empowered frost bite as you will have 30 seconds to finish Malakk off. Regardless if it happens or not you can easily 9 man the encounter from that point on.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Thu May 16, 2013 11:13 pm

our main problem atm is that either malak or marli overpowers and kills us :(

well the rest of the mechanics work atm so it is only a queston of the right DPS distribution. (using the second pot on marli already FYI)
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Fri May 17, 2013 12:43 am

What do you mean by overpower? Full power? And you mean the first Malkk and Marli empower?

If those are problems you just need to shift more DPS to them while you're doing as much damage to Sul as possible. Them going full power really isn't that bad and you can likely use devotion for them. I think it's been stated here a few times but a good goal to get Sul is 20% or lower before the first Kazra'jin empower. Any higher and you're going to get full power on Kazra'jin which isn't an ideal situation.

For reference we bring two melee who interrupt Sul along with the tank full time. The melee (feral/retribution) pretty much full tunnel Sul the entire time while our range double dot and cleave to everything else (including Sul). We just watch full power and if it looks like a particular power is really far behind you just have your DPS stop on Sul or whatever and start DPSing the empowered add. Ideally you don't want dark power to reach 90 and have 15-20% to go. 5% or so is a relatively easy burn that can be done in less than 10 seconds with focused DPS.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Fri May 17, 2013 4:58 am

For reference we bring two melee who interrupt Sul along with the tank full time. The melee (feral/retribution) pretty much full tunnel Sul the entire time while our range double dot and cleave to everything else (including Sul). We just watch full power and if it looks like a particular power is really far behind you just have your DPS stop on Sul or whatever and start DPSing the empowered add


that's about the same we do. nonetheless, malak or marli go to 100% with 8 or more percent to go and yeah at the ebginning it doesnßt hurt that much, but after a while and after to devotion auras that ran out it is just a Raidwide onehit. so as I said is is really only a thing of DPS distribution and targetswitching at the right time.

(iE getting marli to the camp just before she gets possessed and not 30 seconds later, although some of our rangeDPS are complaining that they interrupt her but she doesn't move...)
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Fri May 17, 2013 1:24 pm

They are probably interrupting her when she is still not empowered. Remember she casts from a holy school normally and a shadow school when empowered. You have to wait until she's empowered to interrupt her, or simply move Malakk/Sul over to her.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Bellanka » Tue May 21, 2013 6:52 am

Grommash wrote:They are probably interrupting her when she is still not empowered. Remember she casts from a holy school normally and a shadow school when empowered. You have to wait until she's empowered to interrupt her, or simply move Malakk/Sul over to her.


I'm usually on both Mar'li and Sul. It was far easier for us to move Sul and Malak to Mar'li than vice versa. We don't interrupt Mar'li at all until Sul is dead, and at that point I switch to her. Too many instances where a trigger-happy RDPS interrupts her and she comes running into Sul and Malak to throw out a heal.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Tue May 21, 2013 10:46 am

Wish we had your range DPS at times then (not this encounter). Our range DPS are incapable of using interrupts at all, but our melee are fairly pro at doing it consistently and/or on the fly lol.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Schroom » Fri May 24, 2013 1:08 am

Bellanka wrote:
I'm usually on both Mar'li and Sul. It was far easier for us to move Sul and Malak to Mar'li than vice versa.


Thanks this helped a lot. Finally downed it yesterday on last attempt after almost 150 trys.

Next up: Mageara HM
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby stevos » Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:38 am

Is it better to burst down Sul ASAP or just make sure his dead before he empowers?

On our first few attempts of council we managed to get Sul down very shortly after the first empowered switch. But I am wondering it would be better to hold off or not.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Paoanii » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:09 am

stevos wrote:Is it better to burst down Sul ASAP or just make sure his dead before he empowers?

On our first few attempts of council we managed to get Sul down very shortly after the first empowered switch. But I am wondering it would be better to hold off or not.


Get him down as fast as you can while still pushing empowers at the proper times (2-5s after hitting 100 energy).
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:46 pm

The empowers would continue as Normal because Sul won't be being empowered anyway, so all you get is less interrupting and Quicksand and redicted dps elsewhere. Win-WIn.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Grommash » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:09 am

Quicker you kill Sul the better. As mentioned if you DPS correctly the order should go Malakk > Marli > Kazra-jin > Sul. So if you kill him earlier it shouldn't effect the encounter at all. Makes it a lot easier as you can start treating Malakk like you did with Sul. Which in turn means that you will get 0-1 empowered frost things on his second empower if he's low enough. At that point it's pretty much a kill as long as you don't forget about the adds Marli spawns.

For what its worth we always try and kill Marli last. She almost always ends up getting killed third and Kazra-jin last, but our reasoning is that we don't want to have to burn through Kazra-jin on his third empower when he has a lot of health left.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Gab » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:43 am

Grommash wrote:For what its worth we always try and kill Marli last. She almost always ends up getting killed third and Kazra-jin last, but our reasoning is that we don't want to have to burn through Kazra-jin on his third empower when he has a lot of health left.


^ This. We have ranged focus Kazra after Malakk dies during Mar'li empowers. Two melee dps and a tank (me) are enough to keep up on Mar'li empowers with multi-dotting from the ranged dps. This way you don't end up with Kazra at 30%+ hp when Mar'li dies with the raid at high debuff stacks. Could be ugly otherwise. Also be ready to move (interupt) Mar'li if Kazra rolls on top of her when she is nearing the add spawn timer.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Kiz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:34 am

Gab wrote: Also be ready to move (interupt) Mar'li if Kazra rolls on top of her when she is nearing the add spawn timer.
Kazra should never roll near Mar'li, tell your ranged and heals to get the hell away from her and he won't go there.

edit : also briefly skimmed through and haven't seen it mentioned in this thread. If you're having any issue with frostbites, you can remove some of the casts entirely with a rogue dps using smokebomb on malakk just before he's about to cast it. I'd recommend the second frostbite of the first empower and the frostbite of the second empower with one rogue. Bring two rogues and bomb them all XD
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Gab » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:56 pm

Kiz wrote:Kazra should never roll near Mar'li, tell your ranged and heals to get the hell away from her and he won't go there.


Wait... Kazra can't target melee?

edit : also briefly skimmed through and haven't seen it mentioned in this thread. If you're having any issue with frostbites, you can remove some of the casts entirely with a rogue dps using smokebomb on malakk just before he's about to cast it. I'd recommend the second frostbite of the first empower and the frostbite of the second empower with one rogue. Bring two rogues and bomb them all XD


Well that's pretty cool!
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Kiz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:43 pm

Gab wrote:Wait... Kazra can't target melee?

Well he can but I don't see why melee would be anywhere near her when she isn't empowered which is the only time she drops heal critters.
And yeah, you still get the blue arrow over someones head w/ smokebomb, but then nothing happens xD
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:28 am

When Kazra and Mar'li are the only ones up, you'd lose a lot of dps by asking melee to chase Kazra around - that's probably why you'd have melee on Mar'li when she's not empowered.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Darielle » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:21 am

KysenMurrin wrote:When Kazra and Mar'li are the only ones up, you'd lose a lot of dps by asking melee to chase Kazra around - that's probably why you'd have melee on Mar'li when she's not empowered.


When Kaz and Mar'li are the only ones up and Kaz is empowered (which is why Mar'li is spawning Blessed Loas), you'd have the entire raid in one spot so that he just stays in place while you can stack for Discharge and make great use of aoe healing. Especially since he only moves 2-3 times during the entire phase and spends the majority of his time bowed down taking it in the face.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Xfighter » Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:20 pm

The smoke bomb helped us a great deal last night because previously we had to CD through both of the first frostbites, as we seemingly have 0 ranged classes able to immune it...

The bomb got us to the point of almost breaking Kaz from his second empower, with both Frost king and Sul dead last night, so hopefully we should down it in a handful of attempts tonight.


This fight is kind of lame, when you see the two other guilds ahead of you on the realm only wiping to the fight because of the RNG of frostbite not targeting people who can immune it for them (both guilds only have 1-2 unable to immune it, the rest can immune it in some way - compared to us with 0 people able to do so :| )
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Fenrìr » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:28 am

What kind of raid set up to you have that you have no one with any kind of immunity?
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Xfighter » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:32 am

We typically roll:
Pala/War Tank
Rogue/DK main melee
Spriest/Spriest/Warlock/Warlock
RDruid/RSham

and have someone with another Spriest/Warrior that we rotate around with on fights subbing for one of the ranged (so sometimes have to roll with 3x spriest...)


Overall a pretty terrible comp for 10 mans, but we make it work because we have to; since recruiting and all gets pretty tough.



For anyone approaching this fight without a ton of immunities/good externals:

We used the same comp as above, without the spriest/warrior sub. So 2t/2h/6d (2melee-4ranged) We opted to 2-heal it because our damage overall was low, and in order to 3-heal it we'd have lost our highest damage shadow priest (the other priest wasn't available), and it didn't seem like a viable option.

We split the ranged into 2 groups of three on the pull, for them to be loosely spread out but near the other 2 in their groups. When frostbite went on someone, the other 2 in the group would move in towards them. After about 6-7 seconds of group soaking, all three would move apart and the frostbited person would move towards the middle/front, at that point a personal CD would get used if they had one, followed by 2x HoSac (We tried a vigil but the warrior would get rocked during frigid assault). If it was a warlock, they'd use w/e the warlock shield wall is, then HoSac, followed by dark bargain for the last 8 seconds of the debuff.

On the second frostbite, our rogue would get the smoke bomb off most of the time, allowing the negation of it completely. We had a few successes doing the same CD rotation as above, but it got dicey most of the time, so finding out the bomb trick really helped.


We then did everything the same as others suggest here, but didn't worry too much about the timing on Marli's loa's, and had frost king dead very shortly after his second empower, and >30seconds before his third frost bite would have gone out.

Most raid CDs went out for Kaz's first empower, leaving one for the start of his second/most of the others coming off CD part way through it. At 3% left on Kaz & Marli dead, something like 5 or 6 of our people died, but the remaining few were able to finish it off.
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Re: [10H] Council of Elders

Postby Sagara » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:03 am

Hey guys! We're planning to get back to those guys this Sunday, and I wanted to check wether or Smoke Bomb still worked.
Our strat is getting okay enough for us to get Sul down, but removing the second Frostbite entirely would be huge.
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