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[10N] Elegon

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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby stevos » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:59 pm

27k difference in tank dps seems a little excessive.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby Auracle » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:39 pm

It does, but the DK had been around 100k on recount (note: accuracy disclaimer)up until the final add phase where he popped his army.

He was also the add tank on both add phases, and was given symbiosis for the shroom which I understand plays some part in AoE DPS/disease spreading? It was why we gave it to him (we had 2 to play with).

Also it looks like the pally tank was much lower, around ~60k. So the discrepancy is larger that prevbiously mentioned. Probably a gap of around 8 ilvl points between them at the time of encounter. Both very skilled, not sure why the pally is so much lower.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby stevos » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:07 am

Concerning for the upcoming heroic content.

Hopefully my guild should be raiding properly this coming week and I can see for myself.

I know people have seen monks tanks in greens doing excessive dps in 5mans.
Last edited by stevos on Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby Hespherus » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:20 am

Auracle wrote:It does, but the DK had been around 100k on recount (note: accuracy disclaimer)up until the final add phase where he popped his army.

He was also the add tank on both add phases, and was given symbiosis for the shroom which I understand plays some part in AoE DPS/disease spreading? It was why we gave it to him (we had 2 to play with).

Also it looks like the pally tank was much lower, around ~60k. So the discrepancy is larger that prevbiously mentioned. Probably a gap of around 8 ilvl points between them at the time of encounter. Both very skilled, not sure why the pally is so much lower.


Yes, for some reason i was also at like 60k on this fight, but i wasnt on the adds at all. I guess it also depends, how much time you are staying on the boss, if you are taunting of eachother at the end of the fight. Was surprised to see on WoL tanks at like 109k dps :|
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby Brokenone » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:33 am

I wouldn't worry too much about tank disparities on this fight between you and your co-tank. It's just going to come down to Vengeance up time (boss face time). I tanked the boss significantly more than our Druid tank, and ended up with ~35k higher DPS.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby Auracle » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:16 pm

Yeah it's a bit silly really at the moment. On Spirit kings Last week we had the warrior first, and would let our DK tank eat the first Mega-cleave on his own with IBF up to insta-cap his vengeance for DPS.

Ridiculous hahahah
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby baleogthefierce » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:01 am

I'm curious about different DPS benchmarks for the 10N/25N versions of this fight.

On 10-man we could pretty comfortably hit 2 protector spawns the first time around, 3 on the second rotation. We always killed 4 sets of orbs each time.
(so P1 - 2 protectors, P2 - 4 sets of orbs, P3, P1 - 3 protectors, P2 - 4 sets of orbs, P3, burn phase)

On 25-man we're having trouble making those same benchmarks, should we be shooting to kill more orbs and expect more protectors?
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby Kishandra » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:38 am

Sorry but Blizzard apparently believes that 25m dps need to try 15-25% harder to do the same things a 10m raid does with the same relative number of healers. It's actually quite glaring on Elegon, 10m damage dealers just have to average around 85-90k dps apiece, whereas to beat enrage in 25m you'll need to have dps average almost 115k.

2 & 3 protectors is roughly what level of dps you need to kill the sucker in 25m - at least that's what we got last week and we beat enrage by 9 seconds. I guess if you do exceptionally well on the first wave and/or let all sparks go by in the second wave, you could swing the numbers more in your favor if you can't hit those requirements.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby baleogthefierce » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:56 pm

Kishandra wrote:Sorry but Blizzard apparently believes that 25m dps need to try 15-25% harder to do the same things a 10m raid does with the same relative number of healers. It's actually quite glaring on Elegon, 10m damage dealers just have to average around 85-90k dps apiece, whereas to beat enrage in 25m you'll need to have dps average almost 115k.

2 & 3 protectors is roughly what level of dps you need to kill the sucker in 25m - at least that's what we got last week and we beat enrage by 9 seconds. I guess if you do exceptionally well on the first wave and/or let all sparks go by in the second wave, you could swing the numbers more in your favor if you can't hit those requirements.


OK it did seem like a much more strict DPS check, I think we'll shoot for 2/3 protectors and 6/5 waves of sparks since that seems to be what I can find in most kill videos/strats.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby PsiVen » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:55 pm

25 needs to kill more Energy Charges, and has the means to do so. It does make the timing different, but there are a lot of reasons for the DPS requirement being higher.

We encourage separate 10/25 threads for a reason. Please don't bring these debates to the strategy forum.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby JoeBravo » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:30 am

baleogthefierce wrote:I'm curious about different DPS benchmarks for the 10N/25N versions of this fight.

On 10-man we could pretty comfortably hit 2 protector spawns the first time around, 3 on the second rotation. We always killed 4 sets of orbs each time.
(so P1 - 2 protectors, P2 - 4 sets of orbs, P3, P1 - 3 protectors, P2 - 4 sets of orbs, P3, burn phase)


for us yesterday (2 tank, 2 melee, 4 ranged, 2 heal):
P1: 3rd protectorspawn right before transition. almost. every. time.
P2: 4 sets of orbs: check, burn during 5th
P3: felt very sluggish, but could just've been me
P1: felt like 5 protectors, I lost count
P2: think we failed on the 4th wave the few times we got this far.

need to improve on P1 1st, before worrying about the other ones I feel, but not sure how to do that. How do others handle asigning dps to add/boss here? all ranged on add, or stick a few on boss?

edit: yesterdays WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6 ... boss=60410
Last edited by JoeBravo on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby daishan » Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:35 am

If your getting 3 protectors in P1 it sounds like your dps is a little low.
When we first killed it we where close to a 3rd add before first transition but found if we got one we'd just fall to far behind on boss dps and waste healer mana.
We have our melee do most of the dps on the protectors as they'll have to run out to reset stacks so might as well dps the add at the same time we had 3 melee so with only 2 put a multi dotter on the add as well.
For charges we kill 4 waves in the first transition but only kill 3 waves in the 2nd.
We could probably kill 4 waves on both now but reliably getting 3 down 2nd transition seemed better.
The last burn phase is VERY hard on the healers we only had tanks reset stacks once each rest of the raid stack up and burn while rotating cd's, glyph of battle healer be op here I'll be peeking at 100-120k hps about the same as our holy pally, our resto sham blows all his cd's and hits 300k+ hps.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby sucellus » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:37 am

Tank Switching

Something that occurred to me yesterday after a bunch of wipes was that it's possible to greatly decrease the number of stacks on Eregon's tank during the time when the Protector is up.

Consider what we were initially doing:

Tank1 = T1
Tank2 = T2
Eregon = E
Protector = P

Start: T1-E, T2-DPS
Add Spawns: T1-E, T2-P (T2 drops stacks)
Add Dies: (Tank switch) T2-E, T1-Reset stacks then DPS

On all except the 1st add (you coulc choose to heal over the first one, but I'll document how to decrease stacks on that one as well for completeness) you can achieve much lower stacks without sacrificing any time or DPS.

Lets say it takes 6 seconds for a tank DPSing the boss to reach the boundary and get back into melee range to taunt Eregon.

Start: T1-E, T2-DPS
6s before add: T1-E, T2-Reset Stacks, then tank switch
Add spawns: T2-E, T1-P (Heading for the boundary as fast as possible to drop stacks, if possible trying not to be meleed while their stacks are high, misdirection is useful)
Add dies: (Tank switch) T1-E, T2-DPS (Importantly, T2 does not immediately reset stacks, there is no reason to, until the add spawns he is taking no dmg while not tanking. Also he has shitloads of vengeance which can be used to do good dps which will be waning by the time he drops stacks.)
Just rinse and repeat once the add is going to spawn in 6s again.

Basically, you've lost (the 1 time a tank runs out extra per phase 1 which you could choose to heal over) almost no DPS (actually, it might be a dps gain because of more time dpsing the boss with high vengeance by the OT) on the boss in exchange for an extra tank switch (and optionally one extra tank run to the boundary before the 1st add)

As it is now the case that the same tank is on Eregon during Total Annihilation every time, it makes sense to make superior non-physical tanks in the role of T2. Basically that's where we are putting our Blood DK because the blood shield prevents dying to melee hits after Total Annihilation and they can heal themselves back up quite a lot after Total Annihilation with Death Strike. On our first night we were using 2 paladin tanks, which was not great as their mastery is only really helping with the small amount of physical dmg.
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby Sagara » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:15 am

Quick, stupid question: in P3 does Overload increase the amound of Energy Cascade casts, and by extension, the amount of adds?
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Re: [10N] Elegon

Postby Fenris » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:16 am

Started trying it seriosly yesterday

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2 ... 738&e=8144 I'll just say the results were less than what i hoped for

We basically managed only 1 try out of 16 with 2 adds during phase one,followed by only 2 sparks wave killed :(

I'm open to suggestions :?
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