5.0.4 PTR

[Darielle]

Yep. Between that and especially things like Impale being completely trivialised, DS is pretty much guaranteed to not be a problem, and for something like Dispel mechanics, they may or may not just take it out and nerf to compensate. Not sure it'll be necessary though - they may just even increase the chance for it to morph into Earth.

[rodos]

ICC also had 35% in the game files IIRC.

Not from any memory I have of the time, it didn't. It was set to 30%, and the incrementation automated.

I don't think the ICC buff ever had an incarnation above 30%, even in the game files. I remember that difference being discussed when the 35% version of the DS debuff was datamined.

There's an even bigger disparity once you consider that the DS one is implemented as a mob debuff, where ICC was a character buff.

In the ICC model, if it took you, say, 100 seconds to kill something at launch, then with a 30% dps boost it would take you 100/1.3 = 76.9 s to burn the same amount of HP.

In DS, the mob has 30% HP reduction, so it takes you 70 s to kill at the same dps level.

tl;dr - DS nerf is already 10% stronger than ICC ever was.

[Skye1013]

Not entirely sure that factors in correctly, since the 30% character buff is multiplied by changes in your gear, whereas the 30% mob debuff isn't.

[rodos]

Good point. In practice they're probably fairly equivalent. With LFR and Valor gear, nobody needs to be doing normal mode undergeared.

[lifeonmars]

Good point. In practice they're probably fairly equivalent. With LFR and Valor gear, nobody needs to be doing normal mode undergeared.

Now would be a great time to experiment with trying to clear normal mode DS in all 346 blues, a la the Undergeared project.

[Darielle]

The 30% health debuff is also affected by changes in your gear - and shortening fights is an exponential effect for both systems (since it increases Hero uptime and so on).

In practice the 30% health, 30% damage probably trivialises things more just because of the law of bigger numbers.

For example, take a guy with 140k health and a mechanic that does 200k damage. Shaving 30% off the 200k reduces it to 140k, making it survivable (just), but it would take 43% more health to bring the guy's health up to 200k.

[stevos]

We are 8-9 weeks off Mists, so 35% looks highly likely

If I am honest, I am completely burnt out with the game, for the first time.

I do wonder how many guilds have any motivation to continue to raid or play, at this point. We are only just managing it,and I am sleep walking through it.

For the first time in 5+ years, I am considering giving up.

Please pretty please make Mists PVE content good and updated often. Time for bliz to realise PVE top end exists just like PVP that they seem to love.

[bldavis]

We are 8-9 weeks off Mists, so 35% looks highly likely

If I am honest, I am completely burnt out with the game, for the first time.

I do wonder how many guilds have any motivation to continue to raid or play, at this point. We are only just managing it,and I am sleep walking through it.

For the first time in 5+ years, I am considering giving up.

Please pretty please make Mists PVE content good and updated often. Time for bliz to realise PVE top end exists just like PVP that they seem to love.

see MMO-Champion and FatBossTV youtube channels for nice raid boss videos
some of them look REALLY fun
i just hope they keep it up for T15

[Yelena]

I do wonder how many guilds have any motivation to continue to raid or play, at this point.

Because typically the longer the break a guild takes, the harder it is to get back up and running again.

Time for bliz to realise PVE top end exists just like PVP that they seem to love.

Wait, what?

Are we even playing the same game?

[Worldie]

Most of us are bored with DS as well, but we keep doing that 2 hours clear per week just to not forget how to play and to maintain some sort of social activity in the guild!

[stevos]

We are 8-9 weeks off Mists, so 35% looks highly likely

If I am honest, I am completely burnt out with the game, for the first time.

I do wonder how many guilds have any motivation to continue to raid or play, at this point. We are only just managing it,and I am sleep walking through it.

For the first time in 5+ years, I am considering giving up.

Please pretty please make Mists PVE content good and updated often. Time for bliz to realise PVE top end exists just like PVP that they seem to love.

see MMO-Champion and FatBossTV youtube channels for nice raid boss videos
some of them look REALLY fun
i just hope they keep it up for T15

Yeah they do look fun, really like the look of Algalon/Hagara merged boss. Watching the live streams is about the only thing i am enjoying about WoW right now.

The problem has been the speed at which any half decent guild is clearing the content on live, compared to the next tier being released, mainly caused by the nerfs hitting way too fast, in both dragonsoul and firelands. A fun fight gets very dull fast, once you are able to one shot it reliably.

Don't know about you guys, but we are going to seriously struggle to get back to 4 day raiding and doing it with any level of focus, after months of 1 night and sleep walking through DS.

Time for bliz to realise PVE top end exists just like PVP that they seem to love.

Wait, what?

Are we even playing the same game?

If bliz wants every guild that touches raiding at any level to be able to clear the heroic content, then it will over time kill off hardcore raiding, through burn out. If we have to go through long periods of having no progression each tier, I can guarantee that I will start losing raiders in my guild, through boredom or to other games. In PVP you still have a reason to continue until the next season, brought by hitting ever better players in the arena/rated battleground levels. Ok at the top you still get bored but there really is nothing anyone can do to stop the absolute best players clearing the content fast.

[Worldie]

Random related post:

When the pre-Mists patch goes live, Blood Corruption on the Heroic Spine of Deathwing encounter will transform into the positive type after a single dispel.

Somewhat related, successfully dispelling Wrack on Sinestra will reset the cooldown of the caster's dispel ability, keeping the gameplay there unchanged

[stevos]

Random related post:

When the pre-Mists patch goes live, Blood Corruption on the Heroic Spine of Deathwing encounter will transform into the positive type after a single dispel.

Somewhat related, successfully dispelling Wrack on Sinestra will reset the cooldown of the caster's dispel ability, keeping the gameplay there unchanged

I am guessing this will make Spine 2 healable on 10man. Currently the 3rd healer is spending most of the fight handling the corruption, so if that mechnic is effectively removed, that must free up a healer.

[daishan]

I'm not so sure if that will make spine a 2 heal fight.
Because it'll make it next to impossible to get 2 stacks on the tanks meaning they'll be taking a load more damage.
Ofc dps may be op meaning it'll all be single lifts and tank damage won't get that high.

[Worldie]

30% debuff really made tank damage negligible anyway. Our healers don't even bother getting the debuff on them anymore.