MoP Mastery Discussion

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Tue May 08, 2012 3:25 pm

But... are my assumptions correct regarding Shield Barrier > WoG?
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby danpaladin » Tue May 08, 2012 11:33 pm

Klaudandus wrote:Not to mention that Shield Barrier has enough potential to be more effective.

WoG is only good if you survive the initial hit so you can actually use it, and to do so you might have to use DP as well.

Shield Barrier instead might reduce the damage enough to survive, without having to rely on their new 1min cd, and the healers are gonna be topping you off right after that.


Klaudandus wrote:But... are my assumptions correct regarding Shield Barrier > WoG?


Absorbs are always going to be better than heals. The question is, how is Blizzard going to balance it?

It is going to be balanced in one major way: WoG is going to heal for more than Shield Barrier will absorb.

The rest of the balancing will revolve around the frequency of use, the ability to chain them back to back, and even in the case of WoG, the ability to cast it on others.

The point is that Shield Barrier is not automatically better than WoG just because it is an absorb. All things equal, yes, absorbs are better. But all things are not equal.

One example: lets say there is a mechanic in a fight where there is a large burst of magic damage every minute (150k damage on live, lets say). Here paladins seem to be the clear favorites. Divine Protection for 40% magic reduction, 5 stacks of Bastion of Glory, and a huge WoG right after it hits.

Another example: Medium-sized burst of magic damage every 12 seconds (60k damage on live, lets say). Here its closer. The warrior can pre-shield each one, which will be effective regardless of his current health before the burst. A paladin on the other hand, has to heal after the fact, with fewer stacks of Bastion of Glory. This means that if the paladin is under 60k health before the hit, there is trouble. But that's what CDs are for :D

The point is that Shield Barrier and WoG will both shine, though in different situations. That is the point of flavor. In the above situations, a warrior would most likely have more trouble with the 150k hits every minute, while the paladins might have more trouble with the 60k frequent bursts. However, I think we'd agree that both have the tools to deal with both situations if health gets too low.

I like this differentiation between Warriors and Paladins here. All else being equal, if Shield Barrier absorbs 20% of max health using 60 rage and WoG heals for 30% max health with 3 holy power - assuming that the time it takes to generate 60 rage and 3 holy power is the same - that seems more than balanced to me. Add in the effects of Bastion of Glory, and I would rather have WoG + 40% magic damage reduction on ~45 second CD (talented) than the warrior model of Shield Barrier + 20% damage reduction on a 1 minute CD. Not to mention I can throw out WoGs on my cotank while not tanking to pad some healing meters! Hell yeah! :D
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Wed May 09, 2012 4:52 am

Which would be fine if it wasnt for the fact that Warriors will get in a future build a glyph that raises the rage cap to 120, therefore making it possible for Shield Block AND Shield Barrier be used one after the other without any gaps if needed be.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby theckhd » Wed May 09, 2012 4:58 am

Klaudandus wrote:Which would be fine if it wasnt for the fact that Warriors will get in a future build a glyph that raises the rage cap to 120, therefore making it possible for Shield Block AND Shield Barrier be used one after the other without any gaps if needed be.

How is that relevant? We can SotR (off-GCD), CS, WoG (off-GCD). That's essentially no gap, and even if the CS misses the WoG will still go off. A 2-HP WoG with high BoG stacks is still going to be quite strong.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Klaudandus » Thu May 10, 2012 4:09 am

New build
-Shield Barrier base cost is now 20 Rage, down from 60 Rage. Consumes up to 60 Rage to increase the amount absorbed. Now scales from 3300% of Attack Power, down from 10000% of Attack Power.

-Shield Block can now be used twice within 15 sec.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Flex » Thu May 10, 2012 9:45 am

Klaudandus wrote:New build
-Shield Barrier base cost is now 20 Rage, down from 60 Rage. Consumes up to 60 Rage to increase the amount absorbed. Now scales from 3300% of Attack Power, down from 10000% of Attack Power.

-Shield Block can now be used twice within 15 sec.


Tool tips are funky. Old version was basically an absorb bubble equal to your attack power. New one starts out at 33% of your attack power at 20 rage and scales upwards to 100% if used at 60 rage.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Worldie » Thu May 10, 2012 10:03 am

That's clearly a way to make Shield Barrier similar to Word of Glory.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby danpaladin » Thu May 10, 2012 3:59 pm

Worldie wrote:That's clearly a way to make Shield Barrier similar to Word of Glory.


Yep, and it is a perfectly legitimate change. Just like Paladins can pop SotR and WoG at virtually the same time, there is no reason why Warriors shouldn't be able to. In fact, I think Paladins have the upper hand just a tiny bit because our "normal" rotation will have us hitting SotR right before we would have wasted a HP generator, meaning we will almost always have 3 Holy Power at right about the same time we hit an HP-generator. Our ability to pop off a 5-stacks-of-Bastion-of-Glory WoG right after hitting SotR has me salivating a little :D
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby xstratax » Fri May 25, 2012 2:50 pm

I recall someone asking how the new mastery works, but only recall seeing speculation. Mastery increases the damage of SotR and the % of healing each stack of Bastion grants (which justifies the huge damage and scaling nerf the SotR had received recently). With 11 Mastery I had a base of about 5k damage for SotR on tooltip at 87, and about 400 nude.

I like our mastery now, sure its a bit flooded with extra effects, but at least now it has scaling past the old cap (even if that cap is impossible to hit now), it just feels more fun.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby theckhd » Fri May 25, 2012 8:23 pm

xstratax wrote:I recall someone asking how the new mastery works, but only recall seeing speculation. Mastery increases the damage of SotR and the % of healing each stack of Bastion grants (which justifies the huge damage and scaling nerf the SotR had received recently). With 11 Mastery I had a base of about 5k damage for SotR on tooltip at 87, and about 400 nude.


That's attack power scaling. We already tested SotR and confirmed that its damage doesn't change with mastery.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby benebarba » Sat May 26, 2012 4:54 am

theckhd wrote:
xstratax wrote:I recall someone asking how the new mastery works, but only recall seeing speculation. Mastery increases the damage of SotR and the % of healing each stack of Bastion grants (which justifies the huge damage and scaling nerf the SotR had received recently). With 11 Mastery I had a base of about 5k damage for SotR on tooltip at 87, and about 400 nude.


That's attack power scaling. We already tested SotR and confirmed that its damage doesn't change with mastery.


To be more specific, at the moment on the beta it appears that mastery only affects BoG stack size - SoTR duration, DR and damage done do not appear to change.

Don't get me wrong, it's fun to be able to drop a 'free' big instant heal on myself, but from the tooltip I'd expect mastery to do more (since BoG =/= SoTR). But I haven't been tracking the other tanks to see if where their mastery sits. The warrior absorb frankly seems more compelling to me but it will entirely depend on encounter type and how healers learn to play with the ability for us to drop a big heal.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Newsom » Sun May 27, 2012 5:58 am

benebarba wrote:To be more specific, at the moment on the beta it appears that mastery only affects BoG stack size - SoTR duration, DR and damage done do not appear to change.


No, I'm pretty sure we confirmed that it does not increase the duration of SotR, while it does increase the damage reduction (note that the tooltip on the buff is broken and always displays 30%.)
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun May 27, 2012 6:04 am

No, it currently does none of it, as he said.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby theckhd » Mon May 28, 2012 9:14 am

Newsom wrote:
benebarba wrote:To be more specific, at the moment on the beta it appears that mastery only affects BoG stack size - SoTR duration, DR and damage done do not appear to change.


No, I'm pretty sure we confirmed that it does not increase the duration of SotR, while it does increase the damage reduction (note that the tooltip on the buff is broken and always displays 30%.)


Your own combat log disagrees with you. :)
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Newsom » Mon May 28, 2012 3:24 pm

fkgdfdl I fail at reading
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