MoP Mastery Discussion

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby danpaladin » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:58 am

* I wrote this post within the Beta tank setup and initial thoughts thread, but because this is *the* question to be answered considering the state of beta and the limited window within which we can brainstorm these ideas, I decided to make a new thread. My hope is that we can discuss these ideas, have Theckhd discuss/think about them and create blog posts, and make a difference with how maintankadins will play out in MoP. I will update this thread as new ideas and new pros and cons are discussed.*


We've had several ideas regarding changes to the mastery, and I wonder if we can get some comments regarding the pros and cons of each. It should be a given that unless something drastic happens, an increase in block chance will be a part of our mastery. Here are the ideas I've seen so far, including my own.

1) Increases Block Chance by X%.
2) Increases Block Chance by X% and increases the block value during SotR by Y.
3) Increases Block Chance by X% and increases the healing done by WoG by Y%.
4) Increases Block Chance by X% and increases the duration of SotR by Y%.
5) Increases Block Chance by X% and increases the protective bubble effect of WoG by Y%.
6) Increases Block Chance by X%, Gives Y% Chance to Receive HP on Hit, and Increases Chance to Receive HP on Hit by Z%.


(1)
Virtually exactly what we had in Cata.
Safe, effective and boring.
With diminishing returns and a (good for the game) lack of block capping, this may not be the best choice anymore.
Mastery needs to scale with predictable damage reduction, not only RNG damage reduction.
(2)
Increases the effect of Mastery on SotR, which is an issue in the current build.
Gives Mastery a predictable damage reduction, though only on SotR's first block.
Creates a more spiky damage profile while SotR is not up.
(3)
Increases the effect of WoG to allow it to scale along with mastery and not just AP.
Creates a greater incentive to use WoG over SotR, outside of offtanking.
(4)
My own idea and personal favorite, it increases the uptime of SotR, allowing more uses of WoG as our gear increases.
Base uptime of SotR and uptime after gear throughout the tiers of raiding is something that should be discussed.
Not sure if Blizz would be willing to implement it, though not sure why not.
(5)
Creates a greater incentive to use WoG over SotR, outside of offtanking.
Assuming it continues being used as an "overheal" it is only situationally useful, because we need to be close to 100% health to take advantage of it. Ultraxion Hour of Twilights, Madness Impales, etc.
(6)
Generates more Holy Power, allowing the use of WoG more often while still keeping uptime on SotR relatively high.
Might be too similar to DP, or intrude on DP use. Might be too random. Similar to the rage generation of bears and warriors on live, something that Blizz has said they are not interested in continuing in MoP.

Any other ideas? And any comments about each of these, pros and cons?

Edits:
Grammar and such.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:20 pm

Are you intending the options to be mutually exclusive? As per the discussion in the other thread, I think that both SotR and WoG should simultaneously see benefit to try and make sure that one or the other doesn't become irrelevant over the course of the expansion.

I prefer (2)+(3) (or +(5)) because they give direct, reliable effects.

Regarding (4): Increasing the duration on SotR has two downsides: It's still RNG-based, and it risks pushing uptime into the 90%+ range. The only way I could see them implementing that would be by nerfing the baseline duration to 4-4.5 seconds and letting mastery swing it from 5s-6.5s or so. Any longer and it just becomes a buff we keep up all the time, at which point it's no longer interesting.

Worse yet, it introduces another cap (after X mastery, you have 100% uptime and mastery loses a significant portion of its value). I don't think introducing another cap-able mechanism is wise.

Regarding (6): What's the difference between the Y% and Z% effects? Unless I'm reading it wrong, they're both the same thing? Also, as someone else pointed out in the other thread, resource generation on taking damage isn't in the warrior system anymore for good reason. It means our resource generation stalls out while not tanking something, which isn't good. I'd rather see it give us a chance to generate Holy Power from Avenger's Shield, or a chance to double the HP gained from Judgement, or something like that. Note, however, that none of the other tanks' mastery increases resource generation rates either.


Once we have a reasonable list of suggestions compiled, I'll put together a blog post linking to this thread that discusses the different options and their pros and cons. Sort of like a big maintankadin group blogging project.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby danpaladin » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:46 pm

theckhd wrote:Are you intending the options to be mutually exclusive? As per the discussion in the other thread, I think that both SotR and WoG should simultaneously see benefit to try and make sure that one or the other doesn't become irrelevant over the course of the expansion.

I prefer (2)+(3) (or +(5)) because they give direct, reliable effects.

Regarding (4): Increasing the duration on SotR has two downsides: It's still RNG-based, and it risks pushing uptime into the 90%+ range. The only way I could see them implementing that would be by nerfing the baseline duration to 4-4.5 seconds and letting mastery swing it from 5s-6.5s or so. Any longer and it just becomes a buff we keep up all the time, at which point it's no longer interesting.

Worse yet, it introduces another cap (after X mastery, you have 100% uptime and mastery loses a significant portion of its value). I don't think introducing another cap-able mechanism is wise.

Regarding (6): What's the difference between the Y% and Z% effects? Unless I'm reading it wrong, they're both the same thing? Also, as someone else pointed out in the other thread, resource generation on taking damage isn't in the warrior system anymore for good reason. It means our resource generation stalls out while not tanking something, which isn't good. I'd rather see it give us a chance to generate Holy Power from Avenger's Shield, or a chance to double the HP gained from Judgement, or something like that. Note, however, that none of the other tanks' mastery increases resource generation rates either.


Once we have a reasonable list of suggestions compiled, I'll put together a blog post linking to this thread that discusses the different options and their pros and cons. Sort of like a big maintankadin group blogging project.


To clarify, I am trying to simply compile what I've seen on the forum and in other discussions, I am hoping that the people who suggested one or more of the above will answer some of your questions.


I would love something that combined 2+3 or 2+5, but I cannot imagine Blizz agreeing to create a mastery that impacts 3 separate and distinct values: block chance, block value during SotR, WoG healing. If they do go with such a model, it will be a first (to my knowledge). Usually Blizz shies away from creating abilities/stat values that take too long to explain. Maybe I am not giving Blizz enough credit and we can see such an update, but I am not holding my breath. At the end of the day, the best we can probably hope for is trying to barter 2 uses for mastery.

I still don't see what is so great about (5) unless the protective bubble works without the overheal mechanic, outside of very specific, relatively rare mechanics that begin with the tank at close to 100% health. In other words, if a 50k WoG places a bubble for X% of WoG's heal, with X increasing with mastery. That sounds good to me.

Regarding (6), my understanding is that Y and Z affect the same thing, but that Y is the base value at 0 mastery, and Z is the increase in its value with each point of mastery, kind of like how mastery now gives Y% (18) to block chance and Z%(2.25) to block chance per point of mastery. Here it would be something along the lines of "Gives 10% (Y) Chance to Receive HP on Melee Hit, and Increases Chance to Receive HP on Melee Hit by 2% (Z) per Mastery Point. I am not a fan of the RNG elements of such a mastery change. It will be fun when we get lucky, and will be very sad and even frustrating when we do not.

Finally, regarding (3), can you explain how the increase to block value during SotR is "reliable" as opposed to our current mastery (assuming no block cap). Is (3) reliable because it always affects the same ability in a predictable way? If so, then I get it.

I mean other than the very first block after you hit SoTR, which is a guarantee block we can still very well have every hit after that initial one go through, meaning that that part of the mastery will only be beneficial when we block, instead of (1) which is beneficial on every combat table roll that is not a miss, dodge or parry.

If mastery increases the block value of that first block from say 60% to 75%, is that few % of health really a "reliable" mechanic. If my health is in the red and I need reliability to survive the next hit, I guess I can make the calculation of whether or not a guaranteed block will save my butt, or whether I should WoG instead, but will the difference of about 15-20% of that first hit really make the difference in that calculation. If this is confusing, let me illustrate:

I have X health. The next hit, if unmitigated, will hit me for Y, killing me.
Hitting SotR will guarantee that if it hits me, it will hit me for .25Y meaning I survive the hit. If mastery affects that block value, the hit will do some other amount of damage, close to .25Y probably. Does it really matter whether that hit is .20Y or .30Y? I mean either I feel I can take that blocked hit, or I am using WoG, right? I feel like (3) will have a small impact on survivability and CD/WoG usage. In addition, it will most likely cause our block chance to have to be balanced to a lower %, causing more times per fight where my health is in the red due to a string of unblocked hits.

Lastly, are we all in agreement that a WoG should do more healing than the mitigation of 75% of a melee hit from a boss? I was unsure about some of Theckhd's earlier comments regarding 40% of a hit for WoG healing or something along those lines. If WoG heals for less than 75% of a melee hit, then when will we ever have the incentive to use WoG over SotR, which will not only guarantee a 75% reduction in the boss's attack, but will also increase our block value for around 2 melee hits after that. The only time WoG would be used would be if we are gonna die even if we take a 75% blocked hit, right? That isn't fun, and would only be useful when under 10% health. I know the magic damage argument, but its rare for melee hits to just stop. If we are gonna survive the magic damage element, we have to survive the melee hit right after as well. A WoG healing for less than the mitigation from a SotR "First Block" is not usable.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Skiddles » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:03 pm

theckhd wrote:Regarding (6): What's the difference between the Y% and Z% effects? Unless I'm reading it wrong, they're both the same thing? Also, as someone else pointed out in the other thread, resource generation on taking damage isn't in the warrior system anymore for good reason. It means our resource generation stalls out while not tanking something, which isn't good. I'd rather see it give us a chance to generate Holy Power from Avenger's Shield, or a chance to double the HP gained from Judgement, or something like that. Note, however, that none of the other tanks' mastery increases resource generation rates either.

I guess I should probably speak to this since I proposed it.

First of all, I hadn't considered also keeping block chance in there, but just making Mastery purely a chance to generate additional HP on some trigger (either taking or dealing damage). I suppose you can mix and match all of the things listed 1 - 6 together though.

Secondly, I view no other tank having such a Mastery -- generating extra resources on some trigger -- as a positive: this would be unique, which I thought was a good thing when you're talking Mastery.

It wasn't intended to replace the static HP generation of our damaging abilities, but to instead compliment them by causing Mastery to directly correlate to additional HP above and beyond that. In other words, the heartbeat of our rotation would still be CS->J->AS procs; Mastery would add an additional chance for extra HP to be generated on top of that. Such a change would mean our Mastery would not be subject to diminishing returns, and has a direct impact on our rotation as it would essentially be a proc. It also doesn't devalue our HP finishers in any way, or vice versa.

There are lot of variations you could apply here. It could be either on damage taken, on damage dealt, or both. It wouldn't replace our current static generation of HP on dealing damage, so there wouldn't be any negative consequences while offtanking.

And it was just an idea. The other options all just seemed variations on the same theme of changing the relative stat weighting of Mastery, while this seemed kind of interesting in that it also had the side effect of perhaps livening up the rotation a bit and isn't negatively affected at all by SotR's guaranteed block.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:54 pm

danpaladin wrote:I still don't see what is so great about (5) unless the protective bubble works without the overheal mechanic

That's what I meant.

danpaladin wrote:Regarding (6), my understanding is that Y and Z affect the same thing, but that Y is the base value at 0 mastery, and Z is the increase in its value with each point of mastery, kind of like how mastery now gives Y% (18) to block chance and Z%(2.25) to block chance per point of mastery. Here it would be something along the lines of "Gives 10% (Y) Chance to Receive HP on Melee Hit, and Increases Chance to Receive HP on Melee Hit by 2% (Z) per Mastery Point.

The base 18% is just the benefit of the "free" 8 points of mastery you get at level 80. 8*2.25=18. It's not an independent parameter to tweak (not that it couldn't be, it just isn't in practice).

danpaladin wrote:Finally, regarding (3), can you explain how the increase to block value during SotR is "reliable" as opposed to our current mastery (assuming no block cap).

Because you're guaranteed a block from every SotR, and (3) increases the amount that guaranteed block mitigates. It takes a completely RNG mechanic (block chance) and introduces a deterministic component (increasing the amount every SotR blocks).

danpaladin wrote:If mastery increases the block value of that first block from say 60% to 75%, is that few % of health really a "reliable" mechanic.

If mastery increases the absorb shield and heal from Death Strike, is that a "reliable" mechanic? If it increases armor and mitigates an extra 1-2% of each melee attack is that "reliable"? Yes on all accounts, because when you press the button, you get the mitigation, for sure, with no chance of failure. That's what reliable means.

danpaladin wrote:Lastly, are we all in agreement that a WoG should do more healing than the mitigation of 75% of a melee hit from a boss?

No.
danpaladin wrote:I was unsure about some of Theckhd's earlier comments regarding 40% of a hit for WoG healing or something along those lines. If WoG heals for less than 75% of a melee hit, then when will we ever have the incentive to use WoG over SotR, which will not only guarantee a 75% reduction in the boss's attack, but will also increase our block value for around 2 melee hits after that. The only time WoG would be used would be if we are gonna die even if we take a 75% blocked hit, right? That isn't fun, and would only be useful when under 10% health. I know the magic damage argument, but its rare for melee hits to just stop. If we are gonna survive the magic damage element, we have to survive the melee hit right after as well. A WoG healing for less than the mitigation from a SotR "First Block" is not usable.

There are a few reasons that we don't want WoG to heal for more than SotR mitigates.
1) it would be overpowered in PvP and in a lot of other areas of the game.
2) it would just reverse the paradigm, and make WoG the go-to finisher. That's no better than SotR always being better than WoG.
3) Thematically, most paladins want to deal damage with their finisher. Many of us don't want to be the self-healing tanks.
4) More mechanically, this affects our potential DPS balancing - do they balance us around heavy WoG use, and make us OP when we can spam SotR? Or do they balance us around SotR spam, leaving us lagging behind the other tanks in DPS in most tanking situations.

The trick is to make WoG heal for less than SotR mitigates, but still make WoG a reasonable choice in certain situations. It doesn't have to be often, but it has to be sometimes. An absorption bubble instantly makes it better for magical attacks. A crit bonus when at low health makes SotR a better choice above a certain threshold, but WoG a better choice below that threshold. There are a variety of other tricks you could play here to get the same effect.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:03 pm

Skiddles wrote:Secondly, I view no other tank having such a Mastery -- generating extra resources on some trigger -- as a positive: this would be unique, which I thought was a good thing when you're talking Mastery.

Except that, as I noted earlier, there's a reason no other tank has this anymore. It didn't work - warriors complained of rage starvation and lower output while not tanking, and Vengeance further amplified this discrepancy.

In other words, unique and bad is still bad.

Skiddles wrote:It wasn't intended to replace the static HP generation of our damaging abilities, but to instead compliment them by causing Mastery to directly correlate to additional HP above and beyond that. In other words, the heartbeat of our rotation would still be CS->J->AS procs; Mastery would add an additional chance for extra HP to be generated on top of that. Such a change would mean our Mastery would not be subject to diminishing returns, and has a direct impact on our rotation as it would essentially be a proc. It also doesn't devalue our HP finishers in any way, or vice versa.

There are lot of variations you could apply here. It could be either on damage taken, on damage dealt, or both. It wouldn't replace our current static generation of HP on dealing damage, so there wouldn't be any negative consequences while offtanking.

There would be negative consequences in the damage taken model. Less HPG means less HPG, period. That's less damage via SotR or less healing (on the raid) through WoG.

And in any event, the CS/J heartbeat already provides a lot of Holy Power. We're producing 3 HPG in around 8-9 seconds on average. For a HPG mastery to be at all worthwhile, it would end up producing enough Holy Power to increase the uptime of SotR to 100% or more, which introduces other problems.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Skiddles » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:03 pm

theckhd wrote:Except that, as I noted earlier, there's a reason no other tank has this anymore. It didn't work - warriors complained of rage starvation and lower output while not tanking, and Vengeance further amplified this discrepancy.

In other words, unique and bad is still bad.

Except for in this case we're not operating under a single resource system, and HP only affects our finishers, of which arguably there are only two reasonable choices if you're talking raid tanking. Other abilities are unaffected, and worst case generation of the secondary resource is determined by the heartbeat rotation CS->J.

theckhd wrote:There would be negative consequences in the damage taken model. Less HPG means less HPG, period. That's less damage via SotR or less healing (on the raid) through WoG.

Agreed. It's also just less interesting than the active model.

theckhd wrote:And in any event, the CS/J heartbeat already provides a lot of Holy Power. We're producing 3 HPG in around 8-9 seconds on average. For a HPG mastery to be at all worthwhile, it would end up producing enough Holy Power to increase the uptime of SotR to 100% or more, which introduces other problems.

Also agreed. There would need to be tuning either to avoid the 100% uptime model or accepting that as a reality later in the expansion. Under the current implementation of ShoR, there's still value in hitting it beyond 100% uptime due to the guaranteed Block. They could taper the buff (75%/50%/35%) or stop it from being extended, thereby increasing the value of overlaps if/when they occur.

That said, you're correct they would likely need to reduce baseline HP generation in order to accomodate this fully, and that thought doesn't sit well atm.

EDIT: One last thought before the idea of Mastery affecting HP is scrapped would be to baseline Divine Purpose, either for Prot or all specs, replace it with some New Awesome Talent, and convert Prot Mastery into an increasing chance of a proc.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby lakhesis » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:39 am

When I was talking about (5) with the protective bubble, I was suggesting

a) That it's a double effect with #2, so we're not completely locked into one finisher
b) That it work without the overheal mechanic, but only soak magic damage
c) Ideally that it also apply to EF to genuinely keep all finishers somewhat attractive

The pro's are that it stops WoG being ignored 95%+ of the time without turning it into our primary finisher and gives a situational skill based decision to provide greater interest without an overly negative bad-play penalty (physical vs. magic defense). We're lacking real decisions in our ability use other than timing SotR/CDs - unless they want to mix up the rotation further or leave us with no real decisions, our mastery could provide a good place for an interesting choice in every ~5-10 second window.

I entirely agree with Dan that a 2 edged mastery is potentially a bit of an ask for Bliz. I think "this one increases physical mitigation by x%, this one increases magic mitigation by y%" is a readily understandable concept (more than stuff like deathstrike basing itself off all damage but only countering physical damage anyway). Double/triple-barrelled masterys aren't common, but they are present (spriest, brewmaster, demonology, resto druid, destro, and prot warrior).

So a few general thoughts:
- Is there any plausible way we can de-link our mastery from the finishers? Otherwise it needs to either be multi-barrelled or significantly de-prioritise a finisher. We're somewhat constrained by the fact our mastery must increase block chance (Mastery - because calling it Block Rating is just sooo 2007 darlings).
- I agree with Theck's reasoning on SotR mitigating more than WoG, but that also makes me believe that our mastery should absolutely provide a reason to use WoG/EF occasionally rather than relegating them further.
- I'm dubious about the increasing duration of SotR. It's heading down the path of turning it into a BC era shield block and, while I don't mind some buff maintenance when DPSing, I'm not thrilled by the idea of doing it while tanking again. I don't find it abhorrent, but I'm not keen.
- We need to be able to fit whatever we come up with into less than 30-40 words (absolute maximum), while communicating it to someone who thought 102.4% was like rocket surgery.

And I kinda hate to say it, but what about "Increases block chance by X% and causes Y% of all damage blocked to be healed over 9 seconds"? (I picked 9s at semi-random, you get the drift tho)

I really don't like it personally, but it's simple as hell & it's a totally cliche approach to paladins from dozens of other games. It becomes a more gradated quasi-mirror of crit block so it differentiates from while paralleling warriors. Ditto brewmasters. It has the downside of powering up SotR even more (1st block is a guaranteed HoT) and further downgrading WoG/EF. We'd have a slightly-hidden but fixed ability rotation & only ever use one finisher (woohoo.. go go active tanking... /sarcasm).
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Winkle » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:07 am

I prefer the options that have a more tangible effect in game. EG having WOG scale is a noticeable in game result(3), where as "increases the block value of SoTR"(2) has a less noticeable result and feels a lot more passive.

I like the sound of (5) but surely with no CD on WOG there's simply no way you can introduce a protective bubble component to it without it becoming extremely OP?

Unless the protective bubble was so miniscule as to be worthless a protective bubble is always going to be preferable to block, especially now that bloack is on a sperate roll to dodge/parry.

Also sacred shield offers an absorb so adding in a secondary absorb mechanic would probably not fly. Perhaps if sacred shield were baseline though mastery could be something like:

7) Increases Block Chance by X%. and increases the sacred shield absorb by Y%.

or

8) Increases Block Chance by X%. and decreases the sacred shield CD by Y%.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:46 am

Having some thoughts about this; while I'd like to see more interesting mastery, I'm not sure if Blizzard will think it's necessary.

First of all, the big thing is whether Stagger works on all damage sources or just melee hits. Warrior (block/crit block), Paladin (block), Death Knight (blood shield), and Druid (armor) mastery all only reduce damage from melee attacks.

If Monk Stagger only worked on melee attacks, then the only stat on any tank gear that actually reduces spell damage taken would be the Brewmaster increase to Guard. With Guard now a 30 second cooldown, it's looking more like their (very) rough equivalent to Divine Protection, with the Mastery contribution only there to make it scale through the content.

That all together suggests that Blizzard is just looking at Mastery for tanks with a specific purpose in mind, which is reducing total melee damage intake by comparable amounts.

I'd also note that only Druid and Death Knight masteries are predictable and not random, but Warriors, Paladins, and Monks all have readily available buttons that will temporarily guarantee or improve the benefit (Shield Block, ShoR, Shuffle now that the cooldown's removed).

It looks like they've already put a fair bit of thought into balancing these mechanics.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Nèlya » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:14 am

Sure, we're trying to design a more fun mastery, not a stat more powerful than any other. But what is the alternative for a tank if mastery becomes a low priority stat? Avoidance or hit/expertise.

The fact is that avoidance never was a sexy stat (unless we talk about pre wotlk 100% avoidance!), and tanks have been progressivly reduced to those stats. We do not accomplish anything through gearing without caps. We don't work against crits, or crushing blows. Playing with avoidance in the 40%-60% range has no great impact on the game. The big problem is the fact that mastery becomes another "partial" avoidance stat. I think stats on gear can't be fun if we see no other effects in game than probalility to avoid some physical damage (3 stats, no cap), or probability to hit (2 stats, with cap).

I think the boring aspect of mastery really shows itself in the SotR design where mastery is totally ignored for the garanted block. Mastery should definitely affect its size. (When I use any survival cooldown on live, mastery still applies to blockable damage, as well as the additional DR).

I also think healing should play a greater role in paladin tanking, not as a healer game-play but as a side effect similar to dk tanking. I think it helps differentiate the two shield tanks classes (...also Light should do better than vampires :D). If you want to play a paladin with 0 heal, why don't you play a warrior instead? need an exclusive seal that combines SoT and SoI :)

"Mastery: increases block chance by X%, damage reduction of garanted blocks by Y%, and (self-?)healing by Z%"
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby benebarba » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:29 am

Nèlya wrote:I also think healing should play a greater role in paladin tanking, not as a healer game-play but as a side effect similar to dk tanking. I think it helps differentiate the two shield tanks classes (...also Light should do better than vampires :D). If you want to play a paladin with 0 heal, why don't you play a warrior instead? need an exclusive seal that combines SoT and SoI :)

"Mastery: increases block chance by X%, damage reduction of garanted blocks by Y%, and (self-?)healing by Z%"


In a way, I think the DK mode of healing based on a specific strike fits more thematically than us magically getting heals nearly every time we hit something. If we had a combined SoT/SoI seal, that's pretty much exactly what would happen. It would also be the only seal a holy or prot paladin needed (unless they made one that was required for AOE). But it seems like everyone has a different idea of what a paladin should be. I'm in the warrior-cleric who uses the light to smite enemies, and to protect themself and their comrades, not the priest who put on plate and grabbed a shield camp for protection paladins.

For the mastery you mention, I think if you chose any 2 of those 3, you'd be fine. All 3 I somehow doubt would fly (or at least one would end up pretty minor).
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby Dantriges » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:38 am

You could say that the light that fills the paladin, streams out and knit his wounds. Ok this would be option 6.
Or the light is strong in the hour of need for the protectors of the people. The WoG increase via mastery would be something like that.

Just because the light absorbs damage and heals you during a fight doesn´t mean that you are some kind of priest. You draw upon the same energies like other Light wielders in a different way. If the light is about healing, protection and smiting your enemies you get the whole deal, not smite only. Healing would be part of the protection package then.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby benebarba » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:49 am

Dantriges wrote:You could say that the light that fills the paladin, streams out and knit his wounds. Ok this would be option 6.
Or the light is strong in the hour of need for the protectors of the people. The WoG increase via mastery would be something like that.

Just because the light absorbs damage and heals you during a fight doesn´t mean that you are some kind of priest. You draw upon the same energies like other Light wielders in a different way. If the light is about healing, protection and smiting your enemies you get the whole deal, not smite only. Healing would be part of the protection package then.


I don't want to derail the discussion especially with something arguably irrelevant to class balance. So let me say that part of my comment was part hyperbole/metaphor, not literal.
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Re: MoP Mastery Discussion

Postby benebarba » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:57 am

and actually, now that I think about it - you really couldn't choose any 2 of the 3 with current gear itemization and class design: the block chance would need to be there. Otherwise, you could envision a scenario where your block value was very large but you have no way to improve the your chances of blocking a hit beyond some base value... it wouldn't make any sense.

So really, I think I'd prefer something like a block-chance + value (similar to warriors, but where you have some small but steady increase in block value with mastery up to say whatever their critical block value is) or block-chance + self-heal improvement.
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