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Pandaclysm and the other classes

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:41 pm

I haven't played my hunter much recently, but I always hated Spine ebcause the pet would CONSTANTLY get insta-gibbed. Maybe they have since fixed it, but any fight in which the pet can be insta-gibbed is brutal on BM. The pet does ~40% of my damage when its up AND it makes certain of my abilities available (rolling haste, etc). So when the pet dies, I prolly lose almost 60% of my total output until I can res it...

Having the pet run aimlessly back and forth between adds/targets stinks too, again no pet dps for upto several CDs and loss of certain abilities until the pet re-acquires a target.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Chicken » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:00 am

Chicken wrote:So yeah, destruction is a mess right now.
Turns out that's because Chaotic Energy is erroneously increasing the mana cost of Incinerate.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Fenris » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:51 am

Some more thought on my hunter

1-Frenzy seems to have some kind of problem....It feels like it takes way longer to stack,and often the stack falls before reaching max (=> focus fire uptime suffering)
2-Lvl 75 talents...I guess they still need a heavy number pass on those...Lynx rush is the lower damage one (going by my test,even using it while under BW) yet has the longer cd.Call beast seems to be lower damage than Murder of crows too sincecrows do less damage than the beast,but there are multiple ones and murder lasts longer [24 with 2 call beast vs 30 with a murder every minute].Focus regen is nice i guess,even if with 2 each hit i don't see it having a great effect.MoC seems to be the top damage one,unless there is something funny in the crow/pet damage scaling with level ups/better equip
3-Focus vs readiness...Not sure what to pick as BM...
Last edited by Fenris on Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:57 am

The new beta build has Frenzy increased to 30 seconds from 20, might help.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Fenris » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:02 am

KysenMurrin wrote:The new beta build has Frenzy increased to 30 seconds from 20, might help.

Yes...But still,focus fire lasts only 20s.
If frenzy takes more than that to reach 5 stack,the downtime will still be there
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby halabar » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:45 am

Fenris wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:The new beta build has Frenzy increased to 30 seconds from 20, might help.

Yes...But still,focus fire lasts only 20s.
If frenzy takes more than that to reach 5 stack,the downtime will still be there


I haven't had a chance to test that yet, but it's likely half-done in this beta build, since the tooltips don't quite make sense. Not sure if they are trying to buff it or nerf it.

Since pet talents aren't in right now, it might be hard to test anyway.

In other hunter news, it appears hunters did get shafted on their stat sticks. The early blue post a month or two ago (I think it was GC) said that the stats on the stat-sticks would be added to the ranged weapons.

That isn't the case. The base weapon dps of any ranged weapon has been doubled, but that's to compensate for the 50% nerf to the coefficients of any spell built upon weapon dps. So, while autoshot damage is still higher, hunters are loosing the benefit of all the stats that were on the stat sticks (agi, stam, and hit/crit/haste/mastery), along with the loss of the enchant (130 agi). The current MoP blue scopes are likely weaker than the Woodchucker.

That's a significant nerf.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:16 am

halabar wrote:The base weapon dps of any ranged weapon has been doubled


That's every weapon in the game at least level 85 and up.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:32 am

What do Rogues think of the latest changes? Pretty big thing for them, I think, getting an AoE combo point rotation.

Crimson Tempest Finishing move consumes combo points on any nearby target to slash at the flesh of all enemies within 8 yards, dealing Physical damage and causing victims to bleed and suffer an additional 30% of the initial damage over 12 sec: [snip numbers] 5 yd range, 35 Energy, Instant
Fan of Knives now generates 1 combo point if it strikes your current combo target.

I find it pretty interesting; on the one hand, it means you've likely got a ramp up for real big AoE now, on the other, it's a full AoE rotation and not just one spammable attack, so more engaging.

The one thing that I'm not sure on is giving all three specs the exact same AoE. Might be small differences because of various spec abilities (Combat will use Blade Flurry and single target rotation on small groups, for one), but for the most part, all Rogues will AoE the same way... It means if you don't like the AoE in one spec you can't get a different style in another. (This is the same reason I dislike them making Deep Freeze and Shatter baseline for Mages.)
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:38 am

Still not happy Rogue finishers are not weapon damage based.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Zalaria » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:06 am

re: hunter stats
Your damage output will be balanced around your expected stats, not your stats compared to another class. It doesn't matter if the rogue has 5 million more agility, you'll be balanced in the same ballpark for overall dps. The only real loss worth complaining about is losing a slot to get things like Hit and Expertise.
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby bldavis » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:34 am

Zalaria wrote:re: hunter stats
Your damage output will be balanced around your expected stats, not your stats compared to another class. It doesn't matter if the rogue has 5 million more agility, you'll be balanced in the same ballpark for overall dps. The only real loss worth complaining about is losing a slot to get things like Hit and Expertise.

this is something alot of us are forgetting
as long as we are basically balanced as far as dps, does it matter how our stats are?
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby halabar » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:49 am

Zalaria wrote:re: hunter stats
Your damage output will be balanced around your expected stats, not your stats compared to another class. It doesn't matter if the rogue has 5 million more agility, you'll be balanced in the same ballpark for overall dps. The only real loss worth complaining about is losing a slot to get things like Hit and Expertise.


That was part of my point, and the other part being that they didn't do what they said they were going to. But as you say, if it's balanced correctly, it's not an issue.

But can't do testing until pets get fixed anyway. (No, not that kind of fixing.. )
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Yelena » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:24 am

Hmm... Warriors get an AoE Unrelenting Force on a minute cooldown, not to mention their other toys. Glyph of AoE Throwdown will pretty much be relegated to "who cares" status. All things considered, it's really no question as to who is going to be the preferred RBG Flag Carrier (again).

As if you didn't already have to be mindful of Elemental Shaman & Balance Druids at Lumber Mill, now you'll have to watch out for Warriors as well. Should make things interesting/amusing. Edit: The knockback is like two feet, so yeah, hardly noticeable. That said, you wouldn't take the ability for the knockback, but rather for the knockdown; since, unless Blizzard changed it (doubtful), you can't trinket knockdown effects. That's the main reason Throwdown was so obnoxious, you couldn't even trinket the first 3 seconds of it.




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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby benebarba » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:17 am

Yelena wrote:Hmm... Warriors get an AoE Unrelenting Force on a minute cooldown, not to mention their other toys. Glyph of AoE Throwdown will pretty much be relegated to "who cares" status. All things considered, it's really no question as to who is going to be the preferred RBG Flag Carrier (again).


Wouldn't doing anything else basically require either a complete gutting of one of the major aspects of the warrior toolbox or giving some of the items to classes that already have other stuff that 'should' balance them out across the various other niche parts of the game?
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Re: Pandaclysm and the other classes

Postby Flex » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:33 am

We agree with you that the redesigned Black Arrow hasn't worked out well yet, and even overlaps a little with the new Powershot talent. We are likely to revert Black Arrow to the 4.3 design.
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