Mists of Pandaria

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Amirya » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:45 am

>.> I did say I was tired. :P

And I know it's in combat only, but really, that's just a silly number to use as a range.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:58 am

Extermi wrote:- I do not like ShoR too much, as it mixes soe DPS with an effect you only need when you are the active tank on physical hitting enemies. Would rather take TV for offtank/magical situations for a stronger burn (Tanks DPS SHOULD matter).

Part of the redesign was to make Holy Power primarily a survivability mechanic for prot. Most of your DPS will come from the base rotation, so all of our regular abilities will hit harder than they do now. SotR looks like it'll be our Heroic Strike - i.e., we'll use it to dump excess HP when we hit 5, or potentially when we know a big blockable attack is coming. Hopefully they tune it such that the amount blocked by SotR's effect exceeds a single WoG's healing, so that it's attractive.

The damage on SotR is there to give off-tanks something to do. It doesn't make sense to give us a super-powerful HP-based dps option, because then you end up with problems of ability parity (this is something Meloree talked about in a past blog post).

Extermi wrote:Talent specific + favorites
Tier 1: Speed of light - I like the 1 minute CD "sprint", great for positioning, running from specials etc
Tier 2: Repentance - At least a CC for us, assuming trash will not be AOEd. Else, shorter Hammer
Tier 3: Sacred shield - Seems ideal if we cannot block damage (magical), good synergy with WoG
Tier 4: Unbreakable Spirit - Reduces LoH to 5 and Bubble to 3 minutes, which can be huge. Hand of Purity seems good against bleed damage but 6 sec is short
Tier 5: Holy Avenger - Excellent Synergy with WoG and other HoPo based defensive CDs
Tier 6: Execution Sentence - A strong self-heal on 1 minute CD, also some additional damage for the pull. Hammer is AOE only which seams superfluous as we hace consecration, and Prism mixes this a bit but neither a weak self-heal with a weak consecration clone nor a weak single-target damage with AOE healing seems really attractive.

Just some notes:
Tier 1: With 5 HP, PoJ becomes much more interesting.
Tier 4: Hand of Purity could be very encounter-specific. Ex: Yor'shaj 25H.

Generally: The loss of Divine Plea isn't a big deal. Remember that SotR no longer hits like a truck, so having 3 HP on the pull is unnecessary. In addition, we have a lot of good opening threat options between Exec. Sentence, Holy Avenger, and Sanctified Wrath.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:00 am

Klaudandus wrote:Just curious about something, is GbtL our only mana generating mechanic? I don't see anywhere in the talent tree about an ability to generate mana on blocks.


I noticed that in the previous iteration as well - as it stand now, we get a flat mana generation rate of 5% per 2 seconds. That seems like it may make mana something that needs to be managed based on some simple math, assuming the CS-J-AS/Cons-CS rotation (at the end of that you'd get maybe 15% of maximum returned, but may cost nearly 40% of your base if you use cons, using the current numbers). Though I don't know off hand what the ratio of base to maximum works out to be. I have a feeling there's something that's changing or not included there... like the rest of judgements of the wise.


edited for double-counting
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:02 am

Klaudandus wrote:Just curious about something, is GbtL our only mana generating mechanic? I don't see anywhere in the talent tree about an ability to generate mana on blocks.

Seems to be the case. That said, Sanctuary returns are pretty minimal anyway. It makes more sense to bake it all into one mechanic and just tweak the number until we're self-sufficient. It's also possible that the high mana cost on Cons is actually intended, such that mana is more of a resource and Cons is our release valve.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby bldavis » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:10 am

Amirya wrote:>.> I did say I was tired. :P

And I know it's in combat only, but really, that's just a silly number to use as a range.

and honestly, i was just trolling my GM :twisted:

that would be weird though, being in booty bay and jumping back from a mob in icecrown
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:31 am

theckhd wrote:Tier 1: With 5 HP, PoJ becomes much more interesting.

I will bet you $10 that PoJ only stacks to 3.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:38 am

Klaudandus wrote:Bleeeeeergh -- not happy anymore

Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous still share a cooldown, with a base of 4.5 seconds for both specs. Sanctity of Battle can lower this cooldown for Retribution.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... page=7#136


So the problem with having HotR in the single target rotation is that it requires us to have to deal with positioning problems in situations where they would not otherwise exist (such as with CC and whatnot), so I'm glad it's not required. My only concern is our rate of HoPo generation at 1 per 4.5s. Though since Grand Crusader still generates HoPo, and at 40% proc rate, I think we'll be fine, if a little unpredictable.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:41 am

Sabindeus wrote:
theckhd wrote:Tier 1: With 5 HP, PoJ becomes much more interesting.

I will bet you $10 that PoJ only stacks to 3.

Or they'll nerf the coefficient to 5-8%. I'm just saying, as written, PoJ is rather interesting. If they nerfed it to 7.5%, then you'd have a 15% base run speed as long as you kept 2 Holy Power pooled, which is equivalent to the current talent.

Sabindeus wrote:So the problem with having HotR in the single target rotation is that it requires us to have to deal with positioning problems in situations where they would not otherwise exist (such as with CC and whatnot), so I'm glad it's not required. My only concern is our rate of HoPo generation at 1 per 4.5s. Though since Grand Crusader still generates HoPo, and at 40% proc rate, I think we'll be fine, if a little unpredictable.


Judgement also generates HoPo now. We'll have quite a lot of HPG in the new model.

Also note that we'll still need one HotR in the single-target rotation to keep up boss debuffs, unless another class is doing so.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:42 am

Sabin, Judgement also generates HP.

theckhd wrote:Generally: The loss of Divine Plea isn't a big deal. Remember that SotR no longer hits like a truck, so having 3 HP on the pull is unnecessary. In addition, we have a lot of good opening threat options between Exec. Sentence, Holy Avenger, and Sanctified Wrath.

I pretty much never think about threat concerns. What I was thinking about was the ability to pre-cast Sacred Shield or the 30-second HoT, rather than not having it up for the first 8 seconds and then having to skip another finisher to cast it.


Regarding the HotR debuff, the interesting thing is that while tanks all have to use a low-priority ability (on single target) to apply it, a dps Shaman in your raid will be applying it as part of their normal rotation, though perhaps not consistently (Earth Shock, used for Fulmination in Ele and as gap filler when Unleash Flame isn't available in Enh).
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Sagara » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:03 am

Silly thing - Only now do I realize DK have received Soul Reaper. Classy!
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Darielle » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:05 am

LK Soul Reapers DK.

"YOU SOUL REAPER ME? I SOUL REAPER YOU"

They've made some clarification on Symbiosis. TLDR: Bears gets Consecrate from Symbiosing a Paladin.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Flex » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:19 am

theckhd wrote:Remember that SotR no longer hits like a truck


Numbers for abilities are all over the place so I wouldn't put too much stock in anything listed, for example I don't think Seal of Righteousness will only deal 10 damage.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:27 am

I'm not basing it on the numbers presented. It was publicly stated somewhere in a blue post (though I can't remember where) that SotR's primary benefit was the survivability/block, and it would just do token damage. That intent could have changed, of course, but it seems unlikely.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Kihra » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:35 am

theckhd wrote:Also note that we'll still need one HotR in the single-target rotation to keep up boss debuffs, unless another class is doing so.


I suspect that Crusader Strike will put up Weakened Blows as well. Heck, right now the tooltip for CS doesn't even say that it generates any Holy Power. It's probably just wrong.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:59 am

Kihra wrote:
theckhd wrote:Also note that we'll still need one HotR in the single-target rotation to keep up boss debuffs, unless another class is doing so.


I suspect that Crusader Strike will put up Weakened Blows as well. Heck, right now the tooltip for CS doesn't even say that it generates any Holy Power. It's probably just wrong.


yeah, basically saying 'no debuffs for you, you tank who's in a CC'd pack, unless you have X spec along for the ride' is pretty weak (saying it's only important for bosses, 5-man's don't matter, blah, blah, isn't really a strong argument IMO). Does warrior's demo shout break CC? For some reason I thought no, since it doesn't have a damage component.

TL;DR: I wouldn't be surprised it it changes so that some single-target ability can apply it too.
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