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Mists of Pandaria

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:34 pm

its a glorified rock paper scissors
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby econ21 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:01 pm

jere wrote:I've never played Pokemon. Does the pet battle play exactly like it?


I haven't tried pet battles yet, but I played the Pokemon card game with my son when he was a pre-schooler. It's essentially a game to sell cards that are sold in random packs. It's a bit of a rip off, so we were determined to stop once we had collected them all. :)

Actually, as a game it's surprisingly solid and rather demanding for the intended audience (under tens, I presume). You build a deck of cards, some coloured monsters, some associated coloured power resources for attacks, some generic white cards like healing potions, cures, wild card moves (e.g. force your opponent to bench a monster) etc - typically you mix two types of colour cards in your deck, e.g. fire and water, so you are more likely to draw enough red (fire) resources to power up your fire pokemon etc. There's an RPS meta-game here, e.g. if you went all fire and he went all water, you'd not fare well. :wink: But also some monsters are more powerful, but more rare to acquire, so there's an added incentive to collect. You draw some cards from your deck randomly and pick one monster to square off against the other player's. They typically have two alternative attacks which require varying power for varying damage and monsters have different hit points, which attacks gradually erode until the monster is knocked out. Monsters are also subject to various status conditions that attacks can apply - poisoning, paralysis, sleep. As the game progresses, you draw and can play more cards, so you get more power for stronger attacks plus cards for evolved monsters, so you can power up your little cut fire salamandar type Charmander to be an awesome red dragon Charizard if you can keep the lower level version alive long enough. (I confess, I paid a hefty amount on e-bay to get my son a Charizard and he regularly squished my pokemon in return.)

I have no idea how pet battles work in WoW but I suspect it's very stripped down. I'm not sure how WoW will reproduce the randomness of what cards you and your opponent draw when, so it will be rather more deterministic. I presume there are no in-game evolutions of monsters (as opposed to between game levelling) and few if any equivalent of the characterful white cards that added some non-RPS strategic elements. It may be more similar to the Nintendo computer version of Pokemon.

We tried the Digimon card game but it was not nearly as elegant a system as Pokemon.


Klaudanaus wrote:its a glorified rock paper scissors


Yes, but it is rather glorious. I regard it as having been one of the fun things about being a parent of a young son, along with watching Disney movies and collecting Warhammer tabletop armies.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Newsom » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:19 pm

The pet battle system is based on the Game Boy Pokémon games though (which came long before the card game and anime). It's actually a complete rip-off. Not saying that is a bad thing, I like both the old Pokémon games and the pet battle system.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:23 pm

I wouldn't go so far as to say a complete rip off. As in, there aren't any evolutions, you can select which moves you have available (out of a list of the ones you gain while leveling) as opposed to "forgetting" an old move to replace with a new one. The method used to capture the pets is similar (get them low on health and throw a cage at them.) At this point in time, I haven't seen any combat items (potions, attack boosts, etc.)

The RPS element is still there, and one pet might have both Rock and Paper, while another one has Paper and Scissors.

Also, having watched/played Pokemon & Digimon (video games and TCGs) I can say the only true similarities are using "pets" to fight and evolutions. Though the evolutions in Digimon are temporary boosts in power as opposed to permanent changes which generally leaves no reason to leave them unevolved in Digimon (the TCG evolution/deevolution removed status effects iirc.) Choosing not to evolve your Pokemon right away has some strategic value (in the video game, based on the stats each Pokemon raises faster.) Such as not evolving a Pikachu as soon as you obtain a Thunder stone would allow you to obtain a higher speed (making it more likely you'd attack first) whereas immediately evolving it into Raichu would give you higher special attack.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:30 am

According to GC the beta will stay open until launch night. I'm happy about that, because I was lazy on beta and I'm only now levelling through it. It'll give me the time I need to scout out my levelling path for launch day.

I already have an idea of where to go and which quests to skip for 85-88 - things like the very final quest in Vot4W, riding the lizard and killing the bug, which takes too long for the xp so I'll be skipping straight to the stairs to Kun Lai Summit. I haven't decided if it's worth leaving Jade Forest as soon as I ding 86 or staying until the end.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Lieris » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:51 am

I like Pokemon.

If I want to play Pokemon I will play the real deal, not Blizzard's stripped down plagiarism of a 16 year old version.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:12 am

Well good news! It's optional!
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Lieris » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:20 am

Of course but it took development resources away from dungeon/raid content. You can't divorce it from that context. When I see stuff like this being worked on but only 8 raid bosses in 10 months I can't help but feel slightly peeved at where my subscription money is going.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Newsom » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:30 am

Skye1013 wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to say a complete rip off. As in, there aren't any evolutions, you can select which moves you have available (out of a list of the ones you gain while leveling) as opposed to "forgetting" an old move to replace with a new one. The method used to capture the pets is similar (get them low on health and throw a cage at them.) At this point in time, I haven't seen any combat items (potions, attack boosts, etc.)

The RPS element is still there, and one pet might have both Rock and Paper, while another one has Paper and Scissors.

Also, having watched/played Pokemon & Digimon (video games and TCGs) I can say the only true similarities are using "pets" to fight and evolutions. Though the evolutions in Digimon are temporary boosts in power as opposed to permanent changes which generally leaves no reason to leave them unevolved in Digimon (the TCG evolution/deevolution removed status effects iirc.) Choosing not to evolve your Pokemon right away has some strategic value (in the video game, based on the stats each Pokemon raises faster.) Such as not evolving a Pikachu as soon as you obtain a Thunder stone would allow you to obtain a higher speed (making it more likely you'd attack first) whereas immediately evolving it into Raichu would give you higher special attack.


I would. Of course it had to be adapted to the Warcraft world, but I could see having rare (blue) pets as similar to evolution. I wouldn't say evolution was a big part of the video game either, at least not in Pokémon. Many of the best ones didn't even have evolutions (look at all the legendary pokémon).

- There are poké centers (stable masters)
- There are in game items you can use (healing bandage, pet leash)
- There's the whole aspect of going out in the world and finding wild pets
- Different areas have different pets spawning
- The battle works almost exactly the same, turn based and you choose which move you want to use each turn
- You catch new pets by damaging the pet you want to catch to low before you use the trap (pokéball)
- You get to choose a few pets to keep active (3 in WoW, 6 in Pokémon) with storage enough to fit one of each pet (Bill's PC)
- Pets can level, and learn new moves as they do so
- Pets can get knocked out, becoming unusable until you visit a stable master (poké center)
- There are even "Pet Battle Masters" out in the world who you can fight (like gyms or trainers)

What else was there in Pokémon? Quests? Not much else.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:37 am

Lieris wrote:Of course but it took development resources away from dungeon/raid content. You can't divorce it from that context. When I see stuff like this being worked on but only 8 raid bosses in 10 months I can't help but feel slightly peeved at where my subscription money is going.

Not really. Different teams for one thing. If you read GC's comments on how it came about in the interview linked before, it seems to have been a case of "we need another new thing for this expansion", and they chose pet battles to be that thing. The alternatives would have been things like another profession, not an extra raid.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Treck » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:39 am

Blizzard pet battles doesnt have EV training.
Also theres no elite four!
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:51 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Well good news! It's optional!

You say that as though achievements are optional too... ;)
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Lieris » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:54 am

KysenMurrin wrote:
Lieris wrote:Of course but it took development resources away from dungeon/raid content. You can't divorce it from that context. When I see stuff like this being worked on but only 8 raid bosses in 10 months I can't help but feel slightly peeved at where my subscription money is going.

Not really. Different teams for one thing


I sincerely hope you do not buy that reasoning.

Cataclysm had half the number of raid bosses that TBC had in the same time span. Either the raid team has been considerably downsized since then with people moved to other teams or they are incompetent. Which is it?
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby daishan » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:07 am

I have to say I don't buy the, pet battles didn't slow down MoP release excuse.
I'm willing to let that slide if they get T15 out in a timely fashion and if it's as big as GC hinted at, Ulduar sized that is :D
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:09 am

Lieris wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:
Lieris wrote:Of course but it took development resources away from dungeon/raid content. You can't divorce it from that context. When I see stuff like this being worked on but only 8 raid bosses in 10 months I can't help but feel slightly peeved at where my subscription money is going.

Not really. Different teams for one thing


I sincerely hope you do not buy that reasoning.

Cataclysm had half the number of raid bosses that TBC had in the same time span. Either the raid team has been considerably downsized since then with people moved to other teams or they are incompetent. Which is it?


Heck, T7+T8 had more bosses than all of Cata
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