Mists of Pandaria

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Treck » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:38 am

I just think people will be more comfortable not having everything dropped on them at once, if it is at a time nothing real is happening anyway, and only a few heroic dungeons and maybe some scenario or whatever is introduced in the patch, people can adjust to it mid expansion.

If you try to imagine they would do the squish at a x.0.0 patch, that is a month or 2 before the release of a new expansion, at that point the expansion is allready done, and the itemsquish would have been on the Beta for quite a while, coupled with 100 things to do at the same time.
You cant change to much in one go, that will just make people go "omg I have no idea what im doing" rather than "I can get used to this".
With the scroll of resurrection i had a few friends who started playing again, and they quit in t11, when they all got back they felt like they had to work so hard to understand how shit works these days that in the end they didnt even bother anymore.
LFR was a dealbreaker for atleast 2 of them, for someone who were playing during firelands and interested in its development, it wasnt new when it came out, however for someone who never heard of it before, might just be discouraged.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:39 am

I'd have thought it would be easier to do on a new expansion (with all the mechanics and damage changes people are already expecting), and have less risk of losing people too - do it mid-expension, you have a lot of people who'll have nothing better to do with their time than moan "why is my damage so low now" "I miss big numbers qq" , and just generally whine. Do it at the launch of an expansion and at least some of them will be attracted by all the new content to the point that they actually keep playing for a bit and get used to the numbers.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Flex » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:43 am

Didn't the blog post about it not going live with MoP basically state that the two biggest factors was it feeling wrong and they were already dumping a lot of change on players with the talent system?
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby halabar » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:51 am

Flex wrote:Didn't the blog post about it not going live with MoP basically state that the two biggest factors was it feeling wrong and they were already dumping a lot of change on players with the talent system?


Yep. But the followup mentioned that they wanted players to see the need for it more. Plus, I don't think they really know how they want to do it yet.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:52 am

They said they did do it. They had it fully up and operational in the internal build. They just didn't like it.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Chicken » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:18 pm

Yeah, it's not too hard to do if they're willing to get sacrifice some things. The most extreme option would just be to just keep the item level scaling to classic standards for the entire game (That means item levels are required level + 5 until end-game content), at which point 90 Mists of Pandaria gear would have lower stats than TBC 5-man heroic gear currently has. You'd also completely gut any old-expansion raiding progression that might be going on somewhere at that point though, since it'd equalize all the raiding gear (The assumption being that Mists raiding gear does get past the required level + 5, much like raiding gear did back in classic).

But even a less extreme option like simply equalizing the highest-end quested gear of an expansion to the highest-end raiding gear of the expansion before it would cut out a lot of item levels. Currently they like to catch things up about 5 levels before reaching the cap, then keep a similar rate of growth past that point. Anyway, doing this would cut 21 item levels off of the TBC content, 36 item levels off of the WotLK content, and 62 item levels off of the Cataclysm content, even if you keep everything past that point the same. That's 119 item levels less, making drops from Heroic Madness of Deathwing item level 271, or comparable to drops from the current 10-man heroic/25-man normal Lich King. We'd run into the same kind of stat inflation again after Mists with this though, since Mists would most likely bring us back up to current Cataclysm levels.

Their actual solution would probably be somewhere in between these. I'd imagine they'd be aiming for somewhere in between TBC and WotLK statwise for level 90 if they went through with it. They can do mass operations to rework items at any rate, as can be seen by the stat changes that happened in Cataclysm, I'll assume a script like that can do a relative adjustment on all items as well so that the items keep the same spread of stats, just shrunk down to an appropriate item level.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby rodos » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:37 pm

Another option they discussed was just to divide all the stats, damage, mob health, etc. by 10 (or some other factor). That would get whacky at lower levels where the numbers would end up < 1, so the downscaling would have to kick in gradually - no squeeze at level 1, full squeeze by level 61.

I think removing the "end-game ilevel explosion" after the subsequent xpack is released is a better option, but it would require more re-tuning of old raid content (or giving that content up as lost).
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Dantriges » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:35 am

KysenMurrin wrote:They said they did do it. They had it fully up and operational in the internal build. They just didn't like it.


Was it fully up and operational or did they do some designs to see how it would look like.

I don´t think the squish will go over smoothly regardless of what Blizzard does unless they really let the situation escalate out of control and the game slows down to a crawl on good hardware. The danger is that they could lose a bunch of subscribers till this point who leave for a game with better graphics that runs smoother.

Probably most people don´t care much if they slot the equivalent of trinkets into their gemslots. It´s perhaps a bit more obviousfor tanks with diminishing returns everywhere. If you reach the point where a 1000 dodge grants sub 1% dodge there will be eyebrows raised.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:08 am

First question in this interview, GC says they had the item squish working in game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK5b_RCH5ig
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:19 am

The thing is that they're still cautiously optimistic about not reaching the threshold where the insane magnitude of the numbers actually cause the system to just break down (they say they expect to come very very close thru the life of MOP) -- but like I said before, they've said the same about other things in game and we reach that supposed cap and then things get weird. (Chill of the Throne, Armor Pen, Mastery Cap for paladins, et al).

Also, why do they keep calling it Talents, they should just call it what they are, a glorified perk system -- it's not like Call of Duty is gonna sue them, considering that Activision owns both franchises...
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:37 am

Klaudandus wrote:Also, why do they keep calling it Talents, they should just call it what they are, a glorified perk system -- it's not like Call of Duty is gonna sue them, considering that Activision owns both franchises...


What, you can't just up and change your innate talents? :P
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Yelena » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:10 am

Klaudandus wrote:The thing is that they're still cautiously optimistic about not reaching the threshold where the insane magnitude of the numbers actually cause the system to just break down (they say they expect to come very very close thru the life of MOP) -- but like I said before, they've said the same about other things in game and we reach that supposed cap and then things get weird. (Chill of the Throne, Armor Pen, Mastery Cap for paladins, et al).

If memory serves, the magic number is 2 billion.

Ironically enough, that's also the numeric threat ceiling: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lY4qeNEpmIo
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:11 am

Well he didn't exactly say they're going to leave it until it breaks, what he said was they decided to leave it until more of the player base realises just how ridiculous the numbers are getting.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:14 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Well he didn't exactly say they're going to leave it until it breaks, what he said was they decided to leave it until more of the player base realises just how ridiculous the numbers are getting.



Easiest way is having the system break because of the ridiculous numbers.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Cema » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:59 am

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