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Mists of Pandaria

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby djlar » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:36 am

Flex wrote:
djlar wrote:How you guys get to 86? I don't see new dungeons or zones, just doing regular HoT heroics? questing in TH?


In the capital cities there is a panda that will port you to Panderia since the intro quests aren't implemented yet.



Yeah I've seen that guy but he doesn't take me anywhere... perhaps it was disabled when I tried..
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby halabar » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:55 pm

Hmm... new JC stuff. An example:

http://www.wowdb.com/items/83151-delicate-serpents-eye

+320 agi.. (limit of 2).

That's a lot of Agi.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Dantriges » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:39 am

Yeah as much as a T11 normal trinket. :shock:

Essence of the Cyclone

One of these tiny little things that hopefully reinforces the idea that itemlevel squish is a good idea.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:49 am

I remember they said they actually had an internal limit and while they're not doing it this expansion, they'll be forced to do the squish next expansion?

Just like they said avoidance was not gonna be an issue in wrath... or mastery cap was gonna be an issue in cata?

If we actually hit that limit...
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Treck » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:20 am

From what I remember, they didnt say they would'nt item squish it in MoP, but they rather said they are not doing it at the release of MoP.
Doing it when MoP is likely a mistake as its going to be very weird leveling with the system and getting into the raids with the whole new system.
The current one works, even if its confusing at so high numbers.
Doing it now is going to give it a "bad feel" a lot cuz you are leveling, but you are seeing smaller numbers.
What it seems like they would rather do is to itemsquish mid/late MoP when people have been playing MoP for a while, and each come to the conclusion that its just getting really really annoying with so long numbers all the time (we arnt at that point yet, sure the numbers are high but I think you have to play with the even higher numbers in MoP before you really demand a change)
And then they push the itemsquish in like a sub patch like smth similar with the ZG patch, some useless stuff and a bit of a patch, and you have a few months before the next raid instance is released to get the feel of the new system.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:29 am

If they do it mid expansion is because they're being forced to by their own technical limitations... not because they want to or was their master plan all along.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:08 am

Klaudandus wrote:If they do it mid expansion is because they're being forced to by their own technical limitations... not because they want to or was their master plan all along.


Not to mention that if you think folks think seeing number not growing much while leveling is bad... wait til you see the inevitable QQ when your numbers are dropped by 1-2 orders of magnitude part way through an expansion.

Face it- players will probably dislike the item squish, regardless of its technical requirement or the fact that it can be done such that very little actually changes (i.e. oh man, you mean that old BC boss is going to hit me for .1% of my health instead of .05%? WTF blizz!)
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Treck » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:15 am

Klaudandus wrote:If they do it mid expansion is because they're being forced to by their own technical limitations... not because they want to or was their master plan all along.

Maybe their masterplan is to appear like its "our" plans to have them itemsquish when its been their plans all along.

I dont believe people will take an itemsquish with good terms unless they have played with horrible numbers at the first place, so that they realise why they NEED to do the itemsquish.
Atm in cata itemsquish "could" help, but its not needed, in MoP its getting really close, but i dont think people will be whining at the start of the expancion but rather when new content comes out and things just blow out of proportion.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby halabar » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:30 am

Treck wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:If they do it mid expansion is because they're being forced to by their own technical limitations... not because they want to or was their master plan all along.

Maybe their masterplan is to appear like its "our" plans to have them itemsquish when its been their plans all along.

I dont believe people will take an itemsquish with good terms unless they have played with horrible numbers at the first place, so that they realise why they NEED to do the itemsquish.


And they've basically said they won't do it until players ASK for it. Which means I don't think we'll see it mid-expansion, unless they are just cutting some zeros. Rather, once the numbers get really silly at the end of Panda, it will give them the justification to go and really revamp it. Basically, it's not broken enough yet to warrant the radical change necessary.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Treck » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:48 am

Yeh but thats what im saying, people need to play with the horrific numbers to realise it themselves that it needs a change.
Not realise that they need a change the next time the numbers are going to go up.
Peronally i think a mid expancion release would be a lot smoother than during an expansion.
Theres just so much to cover when theres an upcoming expansion that including reworking how all abilities do damage seems like a bit to much to take in when you just wanna go level.

We havnt even yet experienced how it is to play at lvl 90, how the gear is (sure we have "seen" the gear piece by piece) but we havnt been in there and felt how annoying it is with so many numbers, and they wont do anything untill after people complain on it, and thats likely going to happen pretty fast after MoP is released, aka them fixing it 6 months later.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:00 am

Treck wrote:Yeh but thats what im saying, people need to play with the horrific numbers to realise it themselves that it needs a change.
Not realise that they need a change the next time the numbers are going to go up.
Peronally i think a mid expancion release would be a lot smoother than during an expansion.
Theres just so much to cover when theres an upcoming expansion that including reworking how all abilities do damage seems like a bit to much to take in when you just wanna go level.

We havnt even yet experienced how it is to play at lvl 90, how the gear is (sure we have "seen" the gear piece by piece) but we havnt been in there and felt how annoying it is with so many numbers, and they wont do anything untill after people complain on it, and thats likely going to happen pretty fast after MoP is released, aka them fixing it 6 months later.


The problem of doing it mid expac is that the squish is nearly an expac worth of work by itself. They need to smooth out the curve from entry bc to endgame heroic madness ... That is both the ilvl of all the gear that encompasses that period of time to each and every single creature introduced during that time as well, just to make sure that you are able to quest solo as usual...

If you do this mid expansion, you need to rework what has been introduced this expansion as well, even if its not squished per se, the starting line was moved... Lets say from ilvl 380 to ilvl 240 (pulling numbers out of my ass).
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Treck » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:12 am

Well, that will depend heavily on how they deal with the whole situation tbh.
Easiest way would just be to remove the last 3 numbers in any dmg and have it be decimals you cant see but are still there (the mega damage thingy they were talking about earlier iirc)
Sure you will have a small problem with the lower levels but its really not that big of a deal to sort out.

Another easy way to do it is to make you scale differently once you reach a certain level, meaning no point changing around earlier stuff.

Its really not going to be that much work for it, especially not a whole expansion worth of work.
Most of the finetuning with an itemsquish is going to be settling the detailts and changing some stuff around, it certainly didnt take them a whole expansion or any noticible time investement for them to change healing and spellpower into the same stat on every single item ingame, not to mention it was a bit of both for a while aswell.

When dealing with an expansion they have a lot more time based things to do like animations and design, stat related issues take very little time and resources in comparison.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:18 am

I could actually see the squish coming as a pre-expansion patch at some point: like the mechanics changes in 4.0.1a, if I remember right. It seems like the amount of work required to pull off would be large, and likely concentrated to a relatively small set of working groups... so it seems like something to be developed in parallel to an ongoing expansion rather than in one big chunk. But that's pure butt-mining speculation.

I imagine a difficult hurdle may be if the ilvl formulae in say TBC and Wrath gear isn't the same as the stuff introduced with Cata and MOP, and thus a general scaling rule based on ilvl may be tricky to pin down. Doing a 'simple' decimal point moving comes along with its own issues (math on small numbers at low levels, non-integer values to display on gear tooltips, etc.). One thing we may see is that the stat inflation rate during and between expansions becomes lower than we've seen previously... that would certainly be a start.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Zobel » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:19 am

They'd probably lose fewer sales/subscribers if they did the squish mid-expansion. That has to be the paramount consideration.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby benebarba » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:31 am

Zobel wrote:They'd probably lose fewer sales/subscribers if they did the squish mid-expansion. That has to be the paramount consideration.


Really? I'd figure that sort of thing in a lull (say like now, well before the next expansion is anywhere near ready) would tend to drive folks away (ugh, more nerfs. bai blizz!) vs. being a prepatory thing like the 4.0.1a changes. Or do you mean do it right with a new tier?
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