Mists of Pandaria

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:52 am

Flex wrote:
theckhd wrote:Engineering is worthless, but it has nothing to do with BoP helmets. I'd be fine with getting inferior blue goggles now that I can xmog them. What I really want is raid-stat parity with other professions.


How is the on demand stat boost glove tinker not raid-stat parity?

It is... for DPS specs. It's complete crap for tanking, as are the Deflection plates and the healing potion injector. I probably should have been clearer about that - I want raid stat parity for tanks. Give me a 120 STA glove tinker and I'm happy.

halabar wrote:Huh?..

The melee/dw weapon slots for hunters are going away. Hunters will have a ranged slot, which can also be used to equip a melee weapon for RP purposes. The stats of ranged weapons are being adjusted to compensate for the loss of the stat-sticks as well as their coefficient changes for spells.

Interesting, I thought the opposite was happening - that the ranged slot was going away, and that all ranged weapons would become two-hand (i.e. like polearms). That may be a flawed memory based on what was said at BlizzCon though, I honestly haven't looked that closely at it since then.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Flex » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:52 am

halabar wrote:
Flex wrote:
theckhd wrote:Engineering is worthless, but it has nothing to do with BoP helmets. I'd be fine with getting inferior blue goggles now that I can xmog them. What I really want is raid-stat parity with other professions.


How is the on demand stat boost glove tinker not raid-stat parity?


Yep, the tinkers are pretty nice. Not quite as good as JC, but on par with the others.


JC is the worst with the Cataclysm epic gem implementation.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Flex » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:53 am

theckhd wrote:Interesting, I thought the opposite was happening - that the ranged slot was going away, and that all ranged weapons would become two-hand (i.e. like polearms). That may be a flawed memory based on what was said at BlizzCon though, I honestly haven't looked that closely at it since then.


It is up in the air at the moment. All classes have 2 weapon slots, traditional ranged weapons occupy the MH slot. Stats on ranged weapons are still lower than a 2H weapon.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:55 am

Flex wrote:
halabar wrote:Yep, the tinkers are pretty nice. Not quite as good as JC, but on par with the others.


JC is the worst with the Cataclysm epic gem implementation.


And by "worst," you mean "identical (but more versatile than) Enchanting and Mining, and clearly ahead of Skinning/Herbalism." They're behind Blacksmiths, sure, but they're not exactly in last place.

And again, spec matters. Engi is very strong for DPS specs with 2-minute cooldowns. It's arguably as bad as skinning/LW/tailoring for tanks, even though many tanks actually take engineering.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby halabar » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:01 am

Flex wrote:
theckhd wrote:Interesting, I thought the opposite was happening - that the ranged slot was going away, and that all ranged weapons would become two-hand (i.e. like polearms). That may be a flawed memory based on what was said at BlizzCon though, I honestly haven't looked that closely at it since then.


It is up in the air at the moment. All classes have 2 weapon slots, traditional ranged weapons occupy the MH slot. Stats on ranged weapons are still lower than a 2H weapon.


Semantics, really.

Hunters will not be able to attack with a melee weapon, but they will be able to shoot at point-blank, so, whatever you want to call the slot, hunters will be using ranged weapons.

The stats of the ranged weapons are supposed to be boosted to compensate for the loss of the stat sticks. If they do that correctly or not is another issue, but Blue has stated clearly that that is the plan.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Taikishi » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:04 am

Just reporting what I experienced, Theck. Every time I changed specs before turning in, the stats on the item changed in the listed rewards. Now, sine of those items might have gone from "hit/mastery" or "expertise/master" to "haste/crit", but most of them went from dodge/parry, or dodge(parry)/mastery to dps stats. Been on beta since Wednesday, finished the zone Sunday.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Flex » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:05 am

theckhd wrote:And by "worst," you mean "identical (but more versatile than) Enchanting and Mining, and clearly ahead of Skinning/Herbalism."


No, it is currently the worst primary stat profession.

Say your gear has 10 gem slots and CTC is a non-issue.
Enchanting/Mining: 750 stamina from gems + 120 from perk = 870 total stamina
JC: 525 stamina from gems + 303 from JC gems = 828 total stamina

The Cataclysm epic gem implementation is a direct nerf of the JC bonus compared to other professions.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Flex » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:08 am

halabar wrote:I can live without the goggles, as long as I keep my mote gathering... and scopes. and teleporters to Pandaland.


Engineering will play out as: Tier 1 googles, some form of elemental gathering, scopes with a possible scope upgrade in the future, tier 1 ranged weapons with possible sub-top level weapons in the future and nothing else.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:15 am

Flex wrote:
theckhd wrote:And by "worst," you mean "identical (but more versatile than) Enchanting and Mining, and clearly ahead of Skinning/Herbalism."


No, it is currently the worst primary stat profession.

Say your gear has 10 gem slots and CTC is a non-issue.
Enchanting/Mining: 750 stamina from gems + 120 from perk = 870 total stamina
JC: 525 stamina from gems + 303 from JC gems = 828 total stamina

The Cataclysm epic gem implementation is a direct nerf of the JC bonus compared to other professions.


Ah, right, I guess that's true if you're using all epic gems. Which is reasonable by now, but wasn't at the release of 4.3. Still ahead of the "non-primary-stat" professions though.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:56 am

theckhd wrote:
halabar wrote:Huh?..

The melee/dw weapon slots for hunters are going away. Hunters will have a ranged slot, which can also be used to equip a melee weapon for RP purposes. The stats of ranged weapons are being adjusted to compensate for the loss of the stat-sticks as well as their coefficient changes for spells.

Interesting, I thought the opposite was happening - that the ranged slot was going away, and that all ranged weapons would become two-hand (i.e. like polearms). That may be a flawed memory based on what was said at BlizzCon though, I honestly haven't looked that closely at it since then.


Nope, theck is right. Hunters have a MH and OH slot and ranged weapons now go in the MH
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:02 am

They're not becoming 2H weapons, but they'll behave just like them (ie "Ranged" will be a main hand weapon type that doesn't allow you to equip an off-hand).
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:52 pm

I don't get the food buff changes -- Down to one good stat? Also, wouldn't this make Pandaren racial even more OP? +900 stamina for pandarens?
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Yelena » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:55 pm

theckhd wrote:
Flex wrote:
halabar wrote:Yep, the tinkers are pretty nice. Not quite as good as JC, but on par with the others.


JC is the worst with the Cataclysm epic gem implementation.


And by "worst," you mean "identical (but more versatile than) Enchanting and Mining, and clearly ahead of Skinning/Herbalism." They're behind Blacksmiths, sure, but they're not exactly in last place.

And again, spec matters. Engi is very strong for DPS specs with 2-minute cooldowns. It's arguably as bad as skinning/LW/tailoring for tanks, even though many tanks actually take engineering.

The Leatherworking wrist enchant pretty much trumped every other profession, in terms of pure "free" stamina gains, since Blizzard never saw it fit to add a Cataclysm-level stamina enchant for bracers. As a result, once CTC became a non-issue, a lot of us are rocking the 40 stamina Wrath-level enchant.

As far as Engineering for tanks, currently, it's pretty much garbage. The glove tinker makes no discernible difference on the outcome of anything. Maybe if it were similar in vein to a Battlemaster-style trinket, for an on-demand health/stamina boost, it'd be useful for burst damage scenarios (while still keeping with the trinket theme). 1500 armor doesn't even register on the radar, even if it is mathematically comparable to 120 stamina. The relative value of the armor is particularly useless in T13, considering melee throughput is about the last thing that a tank (or healer) is concerned about in a burst window. Stamina at least has a universal value (in relative terms) against all forms of incoming damage.

I came very close to dropping Engineering for Blacksmithing, in this expansion. If Engineering turns out to be garbage for tanks again, I may well give up the "toys" (while reclaiming some bag space) and just switch to BS before Pandaclysm goes live.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby halabar » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:56 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:They're not becoming 2H weapons, but they'll behave just like them (ie "Ranged" will be a main hand weapon type that doesn't allow you to equip an off-hand).


Yep, the key is that they can't attack with melee weapons. (But they can be equipped for show).
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby bldavis » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:20 pm

halabar wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:They're not becoming 2H weapons, but they'll behave just like them (ie "Ranged" will be a main hand weapon type that doesn't allow you to equip an off-hand).


Yep, the key is that they can't attack with melee weapons. (But they can be equipped for show).

from what i remember, ranged weapons for hunters are getting stat boosts so that it lessens the blow of losing stat sticks

the ranged weapons ACTUALLY becoming melee weapons are wands (models at least), as all ranged slots are gone
so unless pistols are introduced, hunters will no longer be able to dual wield

this also means thrown weapons are pretty much gone from the game, as are relics
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