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Mists of Pandaria

Mists of Pandaria Beta discussion

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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:12 pm

halabar wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:Is it just me, or are pandarens OP with their food racial?


With the downside that it is food-based so you will have to eat occasionally, and after every death. Might be annoying when you are leveling.


I dont think I have ever used buff food while leveling.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:12 pm

benebarba wrote:
Klaudandus wrote:I think min/max raids will racial change to Pandas, with the benefit that the race is actually available for both factions, wherever the class/race combo allows it


cue the QQ about having to get a furry to get the best racial :P

On the valor topic, I'm actually not even making a judgement yet. It seems they are describing an extension of reforging, except you get to add stats rather than move them around, and instead of gold you pay with VP. Which sounds handy, especially if you are in the position where your VP is rendered useless because the vendor gear isn't as well itemized as something from a previous tier, and so incremental upgrades are tough. On the other hand, it sounds like it is possible to have a lot more 'wasted' valor, as you get higher level drops. Or, it will lead to point-hording until you get something worth dumping the points into (I'm thinking the equivalent of making the call on paying for an epic gem vs a blue).

I would find it very odd if in the end the 5-mans were the place to get VP quickly (#/time), since it would seem like you'd basically be telling raiders they have to do 5-mans to keep getting better gear... unless normal and heroic raid drops couldn't be upgraded the same way. But at that point, why have a 'raid-level' currency at all?


I guess people on Moon Guard will not bat an eye at race changing to pandas.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby rodos » Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:55 pm

theckhd wrote:
poptart wrote:*Word of Glory: Now consumes up to 3 Holy Power, down from all. Now has a 1.5 sec cooldown, down from 20.

So, no banking 5 Holy Power and then hitting back to back WoG for a couple of seconds of mana free healing. I wonder if WoG and Light of Dawn are going to share a CD?

What? They just removed the cooldown and changed the tooltip, since "all" would imply 5 instead of 3 now. You should still be able to build 5 HP and WoG-CS/HS-WoG, or even chain two WoGs in a row (for 3HP and 2HP, respectively, and separated by a GCD due to the 1.5-s cooldown).

Actually, it does kill the idea of back-to-back WoG, because a 1.5 s hard cooldown will not be reduced by haste, whereas the GCD will. Hard cooldowns also kill the spell queueing system, so the effective CD on WoG will be (1.5 + latency), completely throwing off any casting rhythm. Still, I can see banking 5 HP and doing WoG-HS-WoG being very handy; in movement phases for instance.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby theckhd » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:22 pm

rodos wrote:Actually, it does kill the idea of back-to-back WoG, because a 1.5 s hard cooldown will not be reduced by haste, whereas the GCD will. Hard cooldowns also kill the spell queueing system, so the effective CD on WoG will be (1.5 + latency), completely throwing off any casting rhythm. Still, I can see banking 5 HP and doing WoG-HS-WoG being very handy; in movement phases for instance.

That's an awfully pedantic definition of "back-to-back WoG." The fact that you might have to pause for 200-300ms does not mean you cannot cast WoG twice in succession, just that there's a small associated dead time cost to doing so.

I mean, we all say that you cast CS every other GCD, despite the fact that you get the double-latency penalty on it. Nobody leaps in to correct that with "you can't cast CS every other GCD, there's a latency penalty."
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby rodos » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:42 pm

theckhd wrote:
rodos wrote:Actually, it does kill the idea of back-to-back WoG, because a 1.5 s hard cooldown will not be reduced by haste, whereas the GCD will. Hard cooldowns also kill the spell queueing system, so the effective CD on WoG will be (1.5 + latency), completely throwing off any casting rhythm. Still, I can see banking 5 HP and doing WoG-HS-WoG being very handy; in movement phases for instance.

That's an awfully pedantic definition of "back-to-back WoG." The fact that you might have to pause for 200-300ms does not mean you cannot cast WoG twice in succession, just that there's a small associated dead time cost to doing so.

I mean, we all say that you cast CS every other GCD, despite the fact that you get the double-latency penalty on it. Nobody leaps in to correct that with "you can't cast CS every other GCD, there's a latency penalty."

I didn't mean that you couldn't do it, but I think it will feel very awkward, and be quite sub-optimal if you have HS off cooldown. Even starting a cast-time heal is probably better HPS than spamming your WoG button for half a second to get a 2-point cast off.

For me 200-300 ms is just latency, with any effect of haste needing to be added, so more like 650 ms at 30% buffed haste. By which I mean, after casting WoG I can hit HS (and have it register) 1150 ms later. A second WoG won't register for about 1800 ms. By mixing in HS I can land three (stronger) heals in 2300 ms, rather than two in 1800. I'm not really complaining - I dropped Eternal Glory, so I don't cast them back-to-back now, so I'm not losing anything. The 5-point HoPo store is all win, but I think the 1.5s Word cooldown for all specs is the wrong solution to taking it off GCD for Prot.

Interesting that you bring up the double-latency penalty on CS. It's one of the reasons I gave up my Prot spec -- the rotation annoyed me too much when doing dailies and soloing old content. The lack of spell queue completely breaks the rhythm of casting on the GCD. It goes CS-X-CSCSCSCSCS-X-CSCSCSCSCS-X-... which is not so much fun. If I'm doing raid dps I expect to have to hammer the buttons a little to "dps harder", but having to do it for a basic rotation or risk popping a 2-point ShoR by accident because CS didn't go off is really annoying.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Hokahey » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:01 am

I don't mind relying on loot tables for my gear. In fact, I wholeheartedly approve of shifting away from Valor Points, PROVIDED they are able to create a loot table in every tier that is all inclusive (i.e. there is an item for every slot for every class and spec in the game), and has more than 1 option for everyone in (at LEAST) tier slots, and at least 2 viable (not necessarily optimal) trinket options for everyone.

The problem is that there always seems to be a gaping hole in the loot table for SOMEONE. Now it could be argued that part of the reason for this is that said hole has been covered by items available through whatever raid currency they were using at the time. Its also helpful that there is now only 1 spec of 1 class that doesn't share its loot with anyone else. So I'm hopeful.

This does mean raids will gear up MUCH slower than they do now, which is actually not a bad thing, in my opinion, since it would help return the value of crafted and BoE items.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Jaitee » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:06 am

does WoG still trigger the GCD im sure some off GCD abilities still trigger it cant think of any atm if it doesn't you could do almost back too back 3hopo WoGs since you could WoG CS/HS then by the time the GCD from CS/HS ends WoG will be off CD at the same time minus the GCD reduction from haste

even if it still triggers a GCD it might be possible for prot/ret too do back too back 3hopo WoGs since judgment gives its hopo on hit and there is a slight delay you could (atleast with low latency) judge WoG (judgement hits and brings you back too 3hopo) WoG

cant think of anything where this would be that useful for though!
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Winkle » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:10 am

@rodos

Tbh it sounds like you have problems particular to playing with very high latency. My usual latency is 30ms or less and i can't relate to your problems at all (and neither i doubt can Blizzard).
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Winkle » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:12 am

Jaitee wrote:
cant think of anything where this would be that useful for though!


There's a /sarcasm emote missing from this comment....right?
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Jaitee » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:41 am

Winkle wrote:
Jaitee wrote:
cant think of anything where this would be that useful for though!


There's a /sarcasm emote missing from this comment....right?



didnt really show what i ment there! i ment more along the lines of saving judgement just incase you want back too back 3 hopo WoGs or delaying WoGing yourself till judgment is off CD would be pointless
though for something like black phase maloriak where you only have a brief window in which too heal it could be useful or for some old raids where you get silence spammed!
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Jaitee » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:44 am

rodos wrote:but I think the 1.5s Word cooldown for all specs is the wrong solution to taking it off GCD for Prot.


isnt there a glyph now that takes it off the GCD? i dont know wether prot still gets it without the glyph or if we will need the glyph last i saw they still had the removes WoG from the GCD still baked into one of our talents
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Levantine » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:15 am

Winkle wrote:@rodos

Tbh it sounds like you have problems particular to playing with very high latency. My usual latency is 30ms or less and i can't relate to your problems at all (and neither i doubt can Blizzard).


So what I'm hearing is that blizzard doesn't care about their oceanic player base? Or people playing on US servers from EU etc.?
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby rodos » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:25 am

Levantine wrote:
Winkle wrote:@rodos

Tbh it sounds like you have problems particular to playing with very high latency. My usual latency is 30ms or less and i can't relate to your problems at all (and neither i doubt can Blizzard).


So what I'm hearing is that blizzard doesn't care about their oceanic player base? Or people playing on US servers from EU etc.?

Of course they care Lev. That's why they moved all the Oceanic realms to a datacentre in Sydney. Oh, wait...

In all seriousness though, having hard cooldowns on rotational abilities is broken when they're an exact multiple of the CGD. It could be fixed - Ret plays fine because haste makes the CS cooldown a non-multiple, and I don't really understand why hard cooldown is excluded from the spell queue anyway.
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Zalaria » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:31 am

Keep in mind that this is a beta (and an early one at that). This 1.5-sec cooldown stuff is exactly the feedback they're looking for. Don't lose hope until it hits release!
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Re: Mists of Pandaria

Postby Levantine » Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:58 am

rodos wrote:
Levantine wrote:
Winkle wrote:@rodos

Tbh it sounds like you have problems particular to playing with very high latency. My usual latency is 30ms or less and i can't relate to your problems at all (and neither i doubt can Blizzard).


So what I'm hearing is that blizzard doesn't care about their oceanic player base? Or people playing on US servers from EU etc.?

Of course they care Lev. That's why they moved all the Oceanic realms to a datacentre in Sydney. Oh, wait...


Not financially viable ~= Not care

Telstra runs one hell of a monopoly, you should know that.
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