Hearthstone

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:47 am

that has nothing to do with my argument. obviously the minion is modified and there's no card attached to it. that's the same in magic. some cards stick to the card, others add counters. but the card sticking to the minion only serves as a reminder so you know what's going on.

but obviously hearthstone remembers quite well what modification took place, it's not just altering the minions stats and it's permanent then. if i silence a BoK off, it very well remembers to remove exactly those 4 power added. but why does it only remove 1,2 or 3 health, depending on how much dmg it took? if you hover over the minion, it also sais very clearly how it got modified. now a silence effect logically would remove the entire modification and not 'if that happened, then remove this part, if that happened, then we remove that part'.
Just doesn't make any logical sense to me whatsoever.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Sagara » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:58 am

Think of it this way: Take a 1/1 minion:

Health: X
Damage: .

On whom a BoK is applied:

Health Bar: XXXXX
Damage Bar: .....

Let's say you hit it with Frostbolt - where do you put the damage?

Magic's method:
Health: XXXXX
Damage: XXX..

Blizzard's method:
Health: XXXXX
Damage: ..XXX

When the BoK is removed, you delete the last four boxes off the minion's Health

Magic's method:
Health: XXXXX
Damage: XXX..

Blizzard's method:
Health: XXXXX
Damage: ..XXX

It's logical, in a way - you don't deal damage to the last and most critical health point first. You start in the safe, end part of your health. If you did a bit of management, it's similar to the concept of FiFo vs LiFo.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby jere » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:19 am

It actually feels pretty intuitive for me. I see it as the "max health" stat was increased and that silence removes the buff "max health increased", but that doesn't affect "current health" which is just a minion "state". I realize it is pretty subjective though. I don't see it as one stat, but two (current and max) and silence only affects the part that the buff applies to.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:30 pm

So what in the world is the person with a Golden Velen, ALL OF THE GIANTS, Rag, etc, doing at rank 15 down with me and my scrubby non-collection just trying to do dailies? There really needs to be a "go away" or "c'mon man, really?" emote. :(

(And I still nearly got him, even though his Rag lived for like 3 turns and his Velen did for about 6.)

Ugh. Oh well. At least I got to be amused by a different guy killing himself with Holy Fire (had a Soulpriest out - whoops!)

Hey Kysen - what does your current Shaman deck look like? I'm actually at the point where I have most of that stuff (and about 400 dust to craft a missing rare or two). The rest of my decks are pretty junky, though I have a mid-range beast hunter that's kinda fun too (Highmanes are awesome).

Arena is still ridiculously hard, too. Got a 6-3 the other day and I was just about jumping for joy on that, best I've done in a while (and I was consistantly getting 7s before, very frustrating now).
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Schroom » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:04 am

Jabari wrote:So what in the world is the person with a Golden Velen, ALL OF THE GIANTS, Rag, etc, doing at rank 15 down with me and my scrubby non-collection just trying to do dailies?


it's the meta. control decks can be pretty bashed atm and lose ranks amazingly fast.

take my control warrior here: http://hearthstats.net/decks/ctrl--7

on friday night I got bashed so hard, 18 losses in a row. to aggro (Huntards, Zoolocks, Shamans)

I fellt pretty terrible and dropped down to rank 15...
on Saturday I built myself a new druid deck to counter those aggro decks (http://hearthstats.net/decks/out-of-my-forest-anti-aggro). and it went amazing so far. > 70% win rate and back up to rank 9.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 am

Anyone know what decks can beat Zoo Warlock? My best decks are Control Warrior and Druid, and neither of those seem to be able to win against it more than 20% of the time. Really getting sick of seeing it - it's every other match. I'm stuck in rank 10.

Jabari - I haven't really touched my Shaman deck since I last posted about it here. I'm thinking about trying it out again, given the way my laddering's been going. With lots of taunt, and Lightning Storm, it could be good against zoo. Though I might have to fit Earth Shock back in for the divine shields.

And lots of big minions doesn't mean a deck is good. Priest can be brutal or it can be a complete loss, it's not consistent enough to climb the ranks well. They also tend to have weak early game, which would let a Warlock or Hunter get an advantage.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:31 am

I might try it like this:

Ancestral Healing x 2
Earth Shock x 2
Lightning Bolt x 2
Rockbiter Weapon x 2
Stormforged Axe x 1
Ancient Watcher x 2
Bloodmage Thalnos
Feral Spirit x 2
Hex x 2
Lightning Storm x 2
Injured Blademaster x 2
Defender of Argus x 2
Spellbreaker x 1
Azure Drake x 2
Gadgetzan Auctioneer x 2
Fire Elemental x 2
Al'akir the Windlord

Removed Windfury and 1x Spellbreaker, put back in the 2x Earth Shock. Should help deal with the Argent Squires and Scarlet Crusaders in Zoo decks.

Haven't tried it yet, though - it does reduce the ability to silence the Ancient Watchers, which could weaken the deck.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:41 am

- aggressive rogue
basically the same neutral minion shell that the aggressive warlock deck uses, but the warlock hero power is bad in such a matchup. backstab and the 007 agent along with deadly poison are also better then anything they have.
- hunter
both the midrange beast and the super aggressive hunter are great. zoo wants to overload the board. unleash the hounds is the single best card against that deck out there right now. also, again, both hunter decks render the warlock hero power pretty much useless.

the old control druid deck with ancient watchers etc is also ok. especially if you play claw as well. if you have some early removal, the big taunts are pretty tough to deal with.
obviously if you build your deck to win that matchup, you'll end up having problems against other slow decks. all this alexstrasa, ysera stuff is terrible vs zoo.

shaman is also ok, but again, the builds that are good vs zoo, have a big problem with the slower control decks and won't ever beat control warlock (although that doesn't really seem to exist atm).
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:57 am

My random thought: it's too easy to lose ranks.

As someone said above, if you get a loss streak you can fall down by 7-8 ranks or even more. As a result, you incurr in poor "normal" people like me, who are essentially stuck at rank 15ish, because I get DEMOLISHED by people with fully legendaryed decks, with very strong 100% meta following decks, that have much higher skill than that rank since they already made it several times to top 10 ranks.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Schroom » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:27 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Anyone know what decks can beat Zoo Warlock?


check out the druiddeck I posted just above your post. it destroys every aggro deck.

Worldie wrote:My random thought: it's too easy to lose ranks.


I agree, also I think since they released the game, the number of ranks is just insufficient compared to the players there are. in the old ranking system I played diamond 3 star . no problem.

when the new ranking system joined I came to rank 7-8

since release I haven't been able to pass rank 10 until this WE.

my decks improved A LOT since beta (I have almost every card now)

also aggro is too strong and should be nerfed, or control decks be buffed.

It's almost disgusting that control decks who need the be played very carefully and need almost perfect play can be destroyed by face roll aggro decks.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Tue Apr 22, 2014 5:39 pm

LOL, just went 4-0 (going from 16 to 14) with this pile of junk. No aggro decks - a ramp druid, 2 priests, and a mage, though this really should do well against aggro as Kai said. Tazdingo > aggro, too :P

Minions:
2* Squire, Ooze, Ringleader, Earthen Ring, Yeti, Taz, Spiteful Smith
1* Juggler, Loot Hoarder, Harvest, Crusader, SI:7, DoA

Non-Minions:
2* Backstab, Poison, Evis, Assassinate
1* Perdition's Blade, Sprint

Spiteful Smith is good card for Rogue. *laugh*

All the one-of minions is because that's all I have. Not about to craft any commons (even the 2nd Harvest Golem) because the 40 to 5 ratio when I finally open one is just depressing. Should definitely craft the 2nd SI:7 if I want to tighten this up, it's really strong.

I know it seems weird, but I almost want the second Sprint in here. No other card draw at all (Hoarder doesn't count :P ). Certainly open for suggestions about how to clean it up further as well. I don't have any Cold Bloods at all at the moment (which combo well with the Divine Shield guys).
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:32 am

I opened my second Legendary today! I now have two Malygos...
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:12 pm

Paxen wrote:I opened my second Legendary today! I now have two Malygos...


Oh wow, that's awful. I guess you get the epic of your choice, but that's still really unfortunate. :(
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Worldie » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:30 pm

I got a legendary today as well, King Crush.

Now sitting on Ysera, Ragnaros, King Crush, Onyxia and Jaraxxus.

Are the king and onyxia good in some kind of decks?
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:07 pm

I've heard of people using Onyxia in some Control Warrior decks instead of Ysera, but I've never actually seen it. There are better legendaries that would see a lot more use. I've seen a couple of King Krushes used in Hunter decks with more big minions.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:20 pm

Jabari wrote:
Paxen wrote:I opened my second Legendary today! I now have two Malygos...


Oh wow, that's awful. I guess you get the epic of your choice, but that's still really unfortunate. :(


I could use a couple of Ancients of Lore, yeah. And 400 dust is way better than the common card it replaced, so it's not too bad. Still a sucky feeling, especially as I've considered dusting my first copy more than once...
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:02 pm

For some reason I've started really liking Hunter arena. I find I'm picking it whenever I get the chance. Doesn't always work out so well.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Skye1013 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:41 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:For some reason I've started really liking Hunter arena. I find I'm picking it whenever I get the chance. Doesn't always work out so well.

I made one deck that had the option for four UtH... Only picked up the first two and passed on the other two because I was worried about not having card draw and something else (got the Buzzard in place of one and forget what the other pickup was.) After playing the deck, I wish I'd picked up at least a third one... would've been fun.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:05 am

Down to the line, my Zoolock vs a Hunter - I was dead next turn, he had 5 hp and I had soulfire (no minions on the board). I Life Tap for...a Leper Gnome. Dammit, that can't attack! But wait...

Mortal Coil the Gnome, and he deathrattles the hunter to death :D
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:39 am

KysenMurrin wrote:For some reason I've started really liking Hunter arena. I find I'm picking it whenever I get the chance. Doesn't always work out so well.


if hunter only had a reasonable hero power, it would be 2nd only to mage in arena. the class cards are so good, multishot, unleash, deadly shot, kill command, huntmaster, animal companion and I probably forgot some. that the hero power doesn't really do anything on turn 2 if you don't have a minion is a huge blow though. but after a lot of other class cards got nerfed over time, hunter is definitely one of the better ones now. while it was clearly the worst when beta was released.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:21 pm

New Druid card from the Curse of Naxxramas adventure set:

4 mana, Poison Seeds: Destroy all minions and summon 2/2 Treants to replace them.

Hard removal is one of Druid's weak points, but that's a hell of a downside. Still, probably a good card - better than Twisting Nether.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:56 am

Hmm, that's pretty awful removal, really. Their new trees get to act before yours do, which is a real problem. Useless against rush/zoo decks too.

Fun combo with Soul of the Forest though. *laugh*

When I had first started playing, I somehow quickly opened up 2 Lightwells in the first few packs that I got. Thought that it was a pretty cool card - here's my current priest deck: (have a Win 5 Priest/Warlock quest right now)

(All one-ofs are things I only have one of right now.)

1: 2*Cleric, 2*Inner Fire, 2*PW:S, 2*Smite
2: 2*Sunfury Protector, 2*Lightwell, 2*SW:P
3: 1*Demolisher, 1*Acolyte of Pain, 2*SW:D
4: 2*Yeti, 2*Tazdingo
5: 2*Guru-Berserker, 1*Auctioneer, 2*Holy Nova
6: 1*Temple Enforcer
10: 2*MC

My observations/questions:
- The Acolyte is not really useful, I want a second Demolisher there.
- I don't have any Injured Blademasters at all. Not sure if those are better than Taz/Yeti without CoH in the deck anyway.
- Auctioneer vs Drake? I want a 2nd one of one of those. Tons of spells for the Auctioneer, and a turn 6 Auctioneer + PW:S is pretty amusing. Also need to figure out what to remove for it.
- Yes, there are two MCs. The second is an experiment right now (and was very, very good last night vs a control warrior - took a Sunwalker, and then a Hogger two turns later).

Ideas/comments?
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Shamora » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:20 pm

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Hearthstone Arena Stats - (Old) 2014
Server: PVP US Barthilas, Horde - <Tribo>
Main: Keondra, Delver of the Vaults, Lvl 100 Combat/Subtlety Rogue
Server: PVE US Nagrand/Caelestrasz, Alliance - <Chivalry>
Main: Crusader Shamora, Lvl 100 Protection Paladin
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:38 pm

hahaha so true.

Actually, the priest deck up there handles warlock zoo just fine. Warrior zoo on the other hand (stupid Warsong Commanders)...
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Apr 26, 2014 4:53 am

I decided to just join the crowd and try zoo Warlock. And I lost. Repeatedly. Sigh.
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