Hearthstone

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:59 pm

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:29 pm

ancient watcher isn't THAT bad, you already have one enabler. I've ended up with angry chicken and whisp in decks before as well. :(
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:30 pm

I actually ended up with a Defender of Argus and a Spellbreaker, so not so bad.

Anyway, after that run I finally crafted Baron Geddon for my Warrior deck. (Removed Wild Pyromancer, 1 Cleave, and Sylvanas, put Geddon in and restored the two Frothing Berserkers.)

Lots more legendaries to go, still. And I'm still cannibalising a lot of the class cards to make them, so my collection's pretty bare.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Skye1013 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:57 pm

Opened up the freebie packs I received for D3: RoS and got Antonidas... playing against bots, he seems pretty broken, but I could see him being a quick target for removal against an actual player.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:20 pm

he's fine, but yeah, you don't get to untap with him. if you go second, you can cast him turn 7, use the coin and cast a 1 mana spell, arcane missles or the two 0/2 taunts. then both the coin (counts as a spell) and the 1 mana spell trigger him and give you a fireball. that's typically as good as it gets. games where you cast him and untap with him, you are generally going to win anyway, even if that was just a war golem instead.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:42 am

The problem with Antonidas is you have to drop a few low cost spells into your deck for him to be worth playing, which can limit the effectiveness of the rest of the deck. He's good when he works, but can be a case where he only works if you're already winning.


In other news, this was an amazing arena deck. It only got me 10 wins, but it could have got me 12 if I'd maybe played a little better.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby jere » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:10 am

For those of you asleep the last couple of days, Hearthstone is available in the US on IPad now. My wife is ecstatic.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Sagara » Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:58 am

Haven't tried logging on, but it seems also available on EU.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:17 am

went into a medium-sized rage yesterday due to how HS handles silence effects and damage. guess I am just too used to magic rules, but it just seems ridiculous to me:

opponent plays druid of the claw, 4/6 taunt.
I earth shock it to 4/5 no taunt. he kills some totem with it next turn and puts a shattered sun cleric +1+1 on it.
so it's now 5/6 (would be 5/7, but 1 dmg from earth shock).
I silence the 5/6. what does it go?
naturally 4/6. the 1 dmg just gets 'silenced off' as the silence removes only +1+0 and not the full +1+1. seems completely counter-intuitive to me ...
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Nooska » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:29 am

Kai wrote:went into a medium-sized rage yesterday due to how HS handles silence effects and damage. guess I am just too used to magic rules, but it just seems ridiculous to me:

opponent plays druid of the claw, 4/6 taunt.
I earth shock it to 4/5 no taunt. he kills some totem with it next turn and puts a shattered sun cleric +1+1 on it.
so it's now 5/6 (would be 5/7, but 1 dmg from earth shock).
I silence the 5/6. what does it go?
naturally 4/6. the 1 dmg just gets 'silenced off' as the silence removes only +1+0 and not the full +1+1. seems completely counter-intuitive to me ...

That would be because it was at less tahn full health, when you silence off health, it takes it from the top, and only reduces health if the current health is over the max health.
Buffing an injured minion with + health, just acts like a heal for current health, and increases max health. I don't see how the game could handle it any other way, without letting you kill with a silence, after reducing health by the cards facevalue of health, and then silencing effects (would make silence too powerful).
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:06 am

well, that would be logical to me. If i have a 5/5 and put a +5+5 buff on it. then it takes 5 dmg. if the +5+5 gets removed, why wouldn't it be dead then? 5 health, took 5 dmg. seems dead to me.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:15 am

So you think it should apply buffs to the bottom, not the top?

I think silence effectively dealing damage would be counterintuitive. The way health changes after removal of a buff can be a bit annoying sometimes (mostly when it's one minion's aura buffing another), but it's pretty consistent. Health buffs increase max health. In order to make them useful for more than just Priests, they also effectively heal for that amount. Silencing a health buff just removes the extra max health.

The one bit that's slightly less intuitive is how it treats health debuffs - removing Equality returns a minion to full health. But I guess that's actually consistent with the idea that when you increase max health, you also increase current health.
Last edited by KysenMurrin on Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:23 am

how does silence deal dmg? if you have a 4/4 with blessing of kings, so 8/8. i fireball it. then silcene it. the fireball dealt the dmg. the way it's set up right now the damage magically disappears when the buff is removed. as if the fireball targeted the blessing of kings. all similar card game i've played treat this differently, but then in those damage doesn't stick to creatures and gets cleared at the end of a step/turn, so it's not really comparable, I guess.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Sagara » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:24 am

KysenMurrin wrote:So you think it should apply buffs to the bottom, not the top?

I think silence effectively dealing damage would be counterintuitive.


It's a question of perception - is the bonus Health lost first or last? If you look at Diablo or WoW or somesuch, Blizz has always had the same idea of "Bonus Health goes out first".

Magic, D&D and World of Darkness are worked up the other way around - think about a barbarian's rage - his bonus Health is always removed when the rage ends, so it's actually possible for the Barbarian to survive until his rage subsides. SAme think with werewolves in WoD.

It's consistent for Blizzard, it's just unusual in the hobby as a whole.

And yeah there's also the "minions don't regen between turns" that's a huge change compared to other CCG's. Minions tend to blow up extremely fast in HS.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:37 am

Wasn't expecting such fast replies - was busy adding to my post there.

It seems like you're treating the buffs as a separate thing from the minion itself. In Hearthstone the buff itsn't a distinct thing you have to damage or remove - it's an increase in the minion's max health.

I suppose when you have cards on a table, they need to be treated as separate things. In this digital game, you can directly modify the minions themselves, so it's treated differently. The card is used up by applying the buff, rather than being an active card on the board to be removed.
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