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Hearthstone

Non-WoW game discussions

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:09 am

Taunts are still very annoying, and they tend to come from Zoo Warlock and Shaman, two of the worst matches. I've been in a number of situations where a player gets a taunt or two out and that's the one thing that stops me from winning (because our finishers need a clear path, and there's lots of other things to burn your removal on before they drop that late-game Defender of Argus).
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:57 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:If I understand it right, tempo's about getting the best value out of all your plays and controlling the pace of the game. Cairne Bloodhoof, for example, is a tempo card - because it takes two things to remove him, usually, playing him puts you at a tempo advantage.


Well, you should be doing the first (best value) no matter what you're playing :P

My understanding is that "Tempo" is what we would call "having the initiative" in chess - you currently have the the "Active Threat" all the time. It also means that you are using your mana each turn.

Tempo cards (to me) are things like Knife Juggler and a lot of the good class cards (Kirin-Tor Mage and Sorcerer's Apprentice are really good - "oversized" body + mana-reduction for your next plays. Unbound Elemental is a great tempo card as well.)

Cairne is NOT a tempo card - it's only 4-power for 6 mana (you're losing the race vs a 6/7 Ogre for the same mana) - it gives you CARD advantage, not TEMPO advantage. Azure Drake is the same - it's not a tempo card at all. Doesn't mean those two aren't awesome, just that they aren't "tempo cards".

Anyway, I'm still not paying any cash and grinding Arena (though I've had a bad run of late - some poor luck and some poor play aren't a great combination. Missed lethal in one game and lost which is inexcusable, then came up against 3 Truesilver Champions in the next game which punted my pretty-good mage draft at 3-3). Finally opened my first Legendary (Ysera), which was nice to see.

Kind of at a point now where I can start putting together the "shell" of a couple decent constructed decks, but am like 5 cards short of all of them (not counting legendaries which aren't happening any time soon). Trying to decide what to do with my whole 250 dust - can craft stuff like a 2nd Knife Juggler and Defender of Argus, or make a 2nd Lightning Storm and Feral Spirits. Don't know whether to make the class specific ones or general ones I can use in multiple decks.

(Also a bit scared to make anything at all, as the DE cost is really harsh - I already got burned crafting my 2nd Azure Drake and then getting a third in the next pack I opened, and don't particularly want that to happen again...)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:25 pm

Jabari wrote:Well, you should be doing the first (best value) no matter what you're playing :P

My understanding is that "Tempo" is what we would call "having the initiative" in chess - you currently have the the "Active Threat" all the time. It also means that you are using your mana each turn.

Tempo cards (to me) are things like Knife Juggler and a lot of the good class cards (Kirin-Tor Mage and Sorcerer's Apprentice are really good - "oversized" body + mana-reduction for your next plays. Unbound Elemental is a great tempo card as well.)

Cairne is NOT a tempo card - it's only 4-power for 6 mana (you're losing the race vs a 6/7 Ogre for the same mana) - it gives you CARD advantage, not TEMPO advantage. Azure Drake is the same - it's not a tempo card at all. Doesn't mean those two aren't awesome, just that they aren't "tempo cards".


I do agree that the defintion is vague and maybe not what tempo really means. But what using these cards does do is that it gives you board presence almost at all times, which is very nice with Savage Roar.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Worldie » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:59 am

I'm a bit divided on defender of argus and similar card. They are very powerful, but they require you to have other cards to play them. I've often found myself with like, 2 protectors 2 defenders and no other minion to play, or 2 ancient watcher and no way to activate them
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:24 am

there's a very clear definition of terms like 'tempo', 'card advantage' and so on from MtG. Given that that game has been around for 20 years, should probably just use that. :)

Tempo is a term used in Magic: The Gathering to indicate the advantage gained when a player is able to play more or stronger cards in a shorter period of time due to efficient resource allocation


As in mostly all internet games a lot of people pick up cool sounding words from similar games and just throw them out there, using them out of context. For example this hero here:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/41457-mu ... rol-legend

just your regular warlock-murloc-rush deck and for some reason this dude calls it board control. sure, you have some sort of control when you kill your opponent before he can use his more powerful cards, but please, BOARD CONTROL? just stfu before I get a headache ... :)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Nooska » Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:57 am

one type of deck I'm missing from my MTG days, is the mill deck... (combined with a destruction/denial deck type, it was pretty fun to play - when things worked out).
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:36 pm

Need a new definition for the deck, then. The key seems to be that your cards takes several actions to remove, which makes it hard to clear the board against you and lets you trade minions favorably.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:14 pm

in magic that would be jund/junk/the rock. midrange deck with tough to kill creatures/minions and removal. but in general HS only has aggro and control. there's just not enough diversity yet for too many different things. there's control decks in magic that don't have minions and simply have one card that reads 'shuffle your used cards back into your deck', winning by just outlasting their opponent and lots of similar niche stuff that probably will be in HS at some point but just isn't in the base set.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:29 pm

Kai wrote:in magic that would be jund/junk/the rock. midrange deck with tough to kill creatures/minions and removal.


Oooooh my kind of deck. Is it bad that every deck I make in this game tries to fit that description, regardless of what class it is? *laugh*

Also: Has Arena gotten harder recently or is it just me? Get what I think is a pretty good Paladin draft, and only go 6-3 with it (and much of that on Tirion's back - what a stupid ridiculous card). Then I just draft an average-to-mid Shaman (wish I had more 2 and 3 drops - the endgame is awesome if i get that far though) and just get completely waxed by a Mage out of the gate:
T1 (Mage): Wyrm, Coin, Leper.
T2 (me): Croc
T2 (mage): Frostbolt, smash for 5.
T3 (me): Grizzly
T3 mage: Frostbolt, smash for lots
T4 (me): Tazdingo
T4 (mage): Fireball, smash for too much, etc etc.

Won the next two (but barely on the 3rd one, another mage got me down to 6 and somehow couldn't finish me off - I almost had enough to kill him directly from 26 life though, 7/3 Frostwolf out and Windspeaker, rockbiter, and lava burst in hand - one short. Scary turn where a fireball would have wrecked me.)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:34 am

people probably just getting better in general. also went 3-3 with the deck below, which I expected to be 10-12 wins really. One of the cut-off cards on top was an innervate, which I generally don't like much in arena but looked really good in this one. My opponents just always had a perfect curve topped off with weapons/removal, one guy actualyl went 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop, sap + minion, sap + minion, assassinate. duh.

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:46 am

In the particular sequence you list there, Jabari, it sounds like you just didn't have the answer to their minions. It happens.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Jabari » Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:14 am

Oh I know, was just a bit surprised that he had the perfect answer to everything that would have completely stabilized for me. Especially in a game at 0-0.

Oh well. I get to play the "Swiss Gambit" again I guess, which has worked relatively well so far. *laugh* The game at 0-1 was against a total newbie to make up for it.

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(There really needs to be a "laugh" or "amused" emote in-game...)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Schroom » Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:27 pm

Hi guys, I'm going to participate in my first tournament next week. it is a small thing with about 20 contestants and I'm really looking forward to it.

nonetheless I want to be prepared.

now, I need 3 Decks for the tournament.

I thought about 1 Zoo (a budget deck to be exact, as I don't own Leeroy: http://hearthstonetopdeck.com/deck.php?d=1298&filter=current)
my warrior Control deck: http://hearthstats.net/decks/ctrl-warrior-no-geddon
and then a third deck,

I think either priest: http://hearthstats.net/decks/darkwonyx-auchenai-priest
or paladin: http://hearthstats.net/decks/nicopally

what do you guys think? pali or priest? what about the deck choice? suggestions?
I'll test those decks a bit more this WE in order to prepare myself a bit and learn the decks a bit more.

also I wanted to start my games with the warlock, as it is aggro it can burst through 1, maybe 2 games and bring the control decks a bit later.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:01 am

I think 6 three-drops plus argent commanders is too much, dunno. I always want multiple 1s. Also not a big fan of shieldbearer, I just have 2 abusive sergant and 2 leper gnomes in there along with 2 faerie dragons as two-drop 5+6 and no crusaders. I think you want either abusive sergeant or dark iron dwarf to have it a bit easier to get past taunts.

3rd deck, dunno, I really dislike priest. nothing truely powerful and lots of situational cards. i'd go with hunter, druid or shaman.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:32 am

Don't think I've ever seen a Zoo Warlock that didn't run Shieldbearers. They're incredibly annoying to deal with. And most run at least one Argent Commander.

Zoo and Control Warrior are both very strong decks, and going Warlock first is probably the right idea. I agree with Kai that Priest can be too situational. Strong sometimes, useless others. Shaman, Druid, and Hunter are definately the strongest options. Depends what you think opponents might bring.
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