Hearthstone

Non-WoW game discussions

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, Aubade

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:55 pm

They aren't live yet. The biggest ones are the imp change to reduce murlock a bit, so I am happy about that as I hate that style the most. Warrior OTK removal is nice, got some buffs to counter that to have a more in general higher damage charge output but allow some reaction.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 4677
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Sagara » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:02 pm

My money's on Shaman abusing Windfury, that or the grand return of RoboMage
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Flex » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:07 pm

Big Game hunter has changed my late game paladin struggles with turn 8 Rags and the like.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 4677
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:04 pm

The Charge nerf for Warriors is interesting because it doesn't just nerf Molten Giants, it also nerfs another Warrior deck that recently became popular, which used Alexstrasza with Charge and Gorehowl to kill the opponent in one turn. But Charge, while costing more mana, is now more powerful to compensate. The Raging Worgen OTK is probably still viable. And even though OTK is gone, Molten Giant + Charge + Inner Rage is still 12 damage out of nowhere for 3 mana.

I'm hoping for Shaman getting a bit better. I've been playing my Shaman again today, and the one problem, which is always the problem, is that Shaman lowers its health too much against Mage and can't heal. Two extra turns would be nice. But, overall 10 mana pyro is only a minor nerf.

Hunter will get slightly better.

The biggest change beyond the Charge ones is actually probably the Novice Engineer. It's in every deck right now; we'll be seeing more Bloodmage, Nat Pagle, and Loot Hoarder after this patch.


Edit: Argh, arcane dust is such a pain. I came up with an idea for a deck a few days ago that I want to try, but it requires crafting Alexstrasza, Leeroy Jenkins and Al'Akir.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Passionario » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:12 pm

Sagara wrote:That's kinda massive. How's the game after those?

So far, all signs point to legendary-heavy Druid domination.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:37 am

Well, they were strongest before the patch and didn't get nerfed, so they're bound to be around a lot while people work out new things with the others.


Appropriately, my last match yesterday was against a control Warrior. It was pretty great. I managed to play around all his win conditions: He had 19 health and lots of armor, and he got me to 17 health. He used both of his Inner Rages to kill my minions, so I knew to kill me in one turn he needed me at 15 health (Alexstrasza or a Giant + Gorehowl) and no taunts on the board. He did things like play out small minions to get me to attack with my Stormforged Axe (which meant he hadn't drawn Alex yet - I guess he wanted to play a 9 mana Giant with charge), but I kept avoiding it, using Lightning Bolts and trading minions. I kept playing around like this, dropping my Defenders of Argus to prevent the attack, and just focusing on developing a board that'd kill him with Bloodlust. Eventually he ran out of cards to clear my minions.

Playing against that Warrior archetype was actually pretty fun, but it takes good draws and a hell of a lot of careful play to avoid their win condition. Now it's gone, which is probably mostly for the best.

But hey, they still have up to 24 damage from Molten Giants in one turn (2x Giant + Charge + Inner Rage).


Edit: So I've just been reading around responses to the changes and meta, and saw something suggested that I really like: I want Grounding Totem.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Flex » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:33 am

Passionario wrote:
Sagara wrote:That's kinda massive. How's the game after those?

So far, all signs point to legendary-heavy Druid domination.


Yup. Nothing like an early round 3 I think Sylvannas. Lost that one, won one where he used Sylvannas to take my Tirion and played a Ysera and Ragnaros. Paladin decks seem like a decent counter to that style provided you bank certain cards like Equality in addition to your Big game Hunter.
We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.
User avatar
Flex
 
Posts: 4677
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:29 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:05 pm

Managed to get Alexstrasza and Leeroy Jenkins crafted (still no Al'Akir), and tested out my Shaman deck idea for a while in casual. Don't think it works well enough - takes too many cards to set up a kill. May have to retool it towards a standard deck but with similar win conditions.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Worldie » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:50 pm

What I don't get about my deck is, sometimes i totally demolish people 30/0, sometimes I get combod in early game (despite having several shut downs like silences, istant kills and like 10 deck copy / card picks) I get overrun and die without chance to react.

It feels my Priest deck has a lot of comtrol but lacks a swipe ability to clear spams of buffed low level minions... how to get one other than Holy Nova?
(consider I don't exactly spam 9/0 arena so my access to legendary cards is nil)
Image
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9205
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:05 am

Lately I only get 3-5 wins in arena, and I've never had higher than 7. I've still been able to craft some legendaries, mostly by identifying classes I don't intend to play and disenchanting all their cards, as well as any and all other cards I don't expect to use in a deck (there are a whole load of Neutral minions that aren't bad but just wouldn't be played outside arena).

Can't see your image there (blocked at work), assume that's you decklist? Anyway. Priest AoE could include things like Auchenai Soulpriest + Circle of Healing, if you really want to go all out. You could consider Wild Pyromancer. But mainly Priests just have to rely on the usual removal and trading minions to gain board control. (I run one Mage deck with no AoE at all. It sometimes gets overrun, but not too often.)

---

Different topic, I came down here to try and get some feedback toward the Shaman deck I'm working on.

Background: I'm trying to build a Shaman deck inspired by the Mir3y Warrior deck that just got nerfed. This deck, which most of you probably saw, used efficient spell removal and lots of card draw, and finished the enemy off by equipping Gorehowl then following that with Alexstrasza + Charge (+ Inner Rage if needed) to deal 15 damage to the face.

The main thing I was looking at was the potential for Alexstrasza to either set up a kill, or heal your hero to avoid the Pyroblast to the face. After I started with that I realised that Doomhammer + Rockbiter could fill the role of Gorehowl in the deck, and that Windfury + Rockbiter can also be used for some big damage combos. It has some disadvantages over the Warrior, though, namely:

- Warriors rely on Armor stacking to keep them alive while they set up a combo. Shaman have no equivalent.
- Warriors could use Charge to hit immediately rather than waiting a turn and giving their opponent the chance to counter Alex.
- Shaman don't seem to have as good card draw potential.

But what Shaman do have is a lot of cheap spell removal, and the potential for big burst with Windfury.

So far, this deck is not great. It's pretty inconsistent, and needs a lot of tinkering. Here's the current lineup (from memory, I made some changes I haven't tested), with explanations:

Earth Shock x 2 (Silence and cheap 1 damage removal. Even better with +spellpower)
Forked Lightning x 2 (Shaman Cleave. The Overload is punitive but worth it.)
Lightning Bolt x 2
Rockbiter Weapon x 2 (Essential.)
Frost Shock x 2 (New addition, haven't tested. Cheap spell, and damage prevention. Avoid getting hit by the big guy if you can't quite remove it yet. Not sure I'll keep this.)
Abusive Sergeant x 2 (Another new addition. Removal - most of the minions you'll play are totems, this lets you use them to kill something.)
Windfury x 1 (Combo finisher.)
Novice Engineer x 2 (Not sure I'll keep these, but card draw is essential.)
Wild Pyromancer x 2 (Turns a Lightning Bolt into a Swipe. Great combo with Healing Totem.)
Lightning Storm x 2 (Board clear, great with spellpower.)
Hex x 2 (Big minion removal)
Mana Tide Totem x 2 (I probably only need 1, but my card draw felt weak. I probably need Nat Pagle instead.)
Lava Burst x 1 (For dealing with big minions. Not sure on it.)
Leeroy Jenkins (Current MVP. Leeroy deals up to 24 damage when comboed with Windfury and 2 Rockbiters. More often it's 18 damage with 1 Rockbiter.)
Doomhammer x 1 (Finisher with Rockbiter, or minion removal. Costs a lot of hero health to use, though.)
Bloodlust x 1 (Use on a line of totems to clear board.)
Gadgetzan Auctioneer x 2 (Card draw. I'm testing this based on its use in Mir3y Warrior, along with all the 1-mana spells above.)
Alexstrasza (Use to enable a next-turn finish, or heal to avoid lethal.)

The deck has several win conditions. The ideal is unlikely: equip Doomhammer by turn 8, then turn 10 Alexstrasza, Rockbiter, Coin, Rockbiter for a 16 damage Doomhammer OTK. But all of my wins so far came from Leeroy Jenkins with Windfury and 1 or 2 Rockbiters. There's also the potential for Alexstrasza to survive and get Windfury, or you could Alex with 1 Rockbiter on Doomhammer and finish the following turn with Lava Burst or some other damage. They all rely on drawing Rockbiter + Windfury and something to deliver them, though.

But like I said, it's inconsistent so far, and doesn't do well at maintaining hero life. I'm not sure about the card draw setup right now. Any suggestions?
Last edited by KysenMurrin on Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Passionario » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:04 am

Have you considered Ravenholdt Assassin? I suspect that he'd be a pretty nasty OTK character if given Windfury and a Rockbiter/Flametongue to go along with it. Especially if you then use a Faceless to copy him in his buffed state.
If you are not the flame, you're the fuel.
User avatar
Passionario
 
Posts: 2417
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:52 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:50 pm

Interesting thought. Might consider it.


Edit: Update on the deck: I dropped the Lava Burst and Frost Shocks, added second Windfury and two Unbound Elementals. I felt like needed more bodies on the field. (Still think that I might be better off with a more traditional minion deck.)

I've had a couple wins now where I buffed up the Gadgetzan Auctioneer with Windufry, Rockbiter, and Abusive Sergeant, and one just finished where I did that minus Rockbiter, with Bloodlust and a couple extra minions, to kill a nearly full health Priest.

(This deck does in fact have an OTK, I realised. Leeroy, Rockbiter, Rockbiter, Abusive Sergeant, Abusive Sergeant, Windfury = 10 mana, 32 damage. But 6 cards, so unlikely.)

I've only once managed to do anything useful with Alextrasza except for extending a loss for a few turns. So I'm beginning to doubt her presence in the deck. Not sure.

Edit: I forgot, I also dropped the 2nd Mana Tide Totem for a Tinkmaster Overspark. This deck is feeling better, still don't think it'd hold up in the ladder though. Shaman just can't heal themselves enough for this strategy.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Worldie » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:18 am

are the gnome engineers worth now that they got nerfed to 1/1 ?
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9205
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:30 am

Cheap, instant card draw is still very valuable in the late game if you've started to empty your hand. And the 1/1 body on the field often takes up 2 mana from your opponent.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Winkle » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:46 am

The old mage spell aggro and the warrior OTK basically both tried to do the same thing, stall until turn 9 at which point you'd kill them.

Stall for warrior came in the form of lots of cheap spells for removal plus gadgetzan auctioneer for draw.

Stall for mages cam in the form of mirror images, frost nova's and blizzards with arcane intellect, and loot hoarder/novice/oracle for draw.

Shaman has the same tools available to him too:

Earth elementals combined with overload, basically a similar threat as mana wyrms, although more costly, also more threatening.

Feral spirits for stalling.

TBH though it almost sounds like you'd be running a standard shaman deck but with alexstraza thrown in as a potential win condition.
Winkle
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Winkle » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:48 am

Worldie wrote:are the gnome engineers worth now that they got nerfed to 1/1 ?


Might be better off running Nat Pagle if you have him.
Winkle
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Winkle » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:50 am

Worldie wrote:What I don't get about my deck is, sometimes i totally demolish people 30/0, sometimes I get combod in early game (despite having several shut downs like silences, istant kills and like 10 deck copy / card picks) I get overrun and die without chance to react.

It feels my Priest deck has a lot of comtrol but lacks a swipe ability to clear spams of buffed low level minions... how to get one other than Holy Nova?
(consider I don't exactly spam 9/0 arena so my access to legendary cards is nil)


Your priest deck is almost like some kind of aggro deck, every minion is so cheap, accept in my mined that doesn't really work to well for priest since you can't benefit from your hero power that greatly (i.e. you want bigger minions you can keep alive).
Winkle
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:54 am

Re: the Shaman Earth Elemental, I don't run it because Black Knight is very popular right now. The Earth Ele is a very expensive card to use, with its overload, and getting instantly removed is a huge setback. It's great against rush decks but not much else.

And yeah, the deck is probably going to start moving to a more regular deck, while maintaining the same win conditions. Shaman can't handle keeping an "empty" board without losing too much life.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Worldie » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:06 am

Winkle wrote:Your priest deck is almost like some kind of aggro deck, every minion is so cheap, accept in my mined that doesn't really work to well for priest since you can't benefit from your hero power that greatly (i.e. you want bigger minions you can keep alive).

Thing is I don't really like high cost minions, as they are too easy to shut down by the 9000 istakill spells&minions. Nothimg more frustrating to do a good play to get that Deathwing down, just to see it taken down by a assassinate.
theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.
User avatar
Worldie
Global Mod
 
Posts: 9205
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:49 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:50 am

That's why you play other big minions that are less costly to lose. You want to bait out the removal you suspect your opponent has before playing the one you really want to play.

Don't play Ragnaros against a Paladin who's not dropped his two Equalities and has a full hand, for example. Don't drop Sylvanas if a Druid's not played Keeper of the Grove and you think they might have it in hand. Sometimes you have no choice but to play into a potential removal, sometimes you can take a gamble they've not drawn it, it's just about risk versus reward.

If Deathwing is your only big minion, then yeah, he's getting the one Assassinate some Rogues use in their decks. If he's not the only one, you can wait until something else gets hit. (And if you can't make your opponent play it, you're failing at fighting for board control.)

Deathwing's main weakness is that it makes you very vulnerable if your opponent is able to kill it, because you discard all your other options. That's why you don't see him in many/any decks.

You just have to always think about the options your opponent might have available. (To a certain extent. You don't play around Naturalise against a Druid, for example, because hardly anyone uses it, and if one person does Naturalise your Ragnaros, well that's just unlucky (if everyone Naturalises your Ragnaros, it's time to start playing around it).)
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Winkle » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:40 am

KysenMurrin wrote:Re: the Shaman Earth Elemental, I don't run it because Black Knight is very popular right now. The Earth Ele is a very expensive card to use, with its overload, and getting instantly removed is a huge setback. It's great against rush decks but not much else.

And yeah, the deck is probably going to start moving to a more regular deck, while maintaining the same win conditions. Shaman can't handle keeping an "empty" board without losing too much life.


Ooops didn't mean earth ele, meant the one that gets buffed by overload.
Winkle
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 am

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:44 am

Oh, right, yeah, that makes more sense. :lol:

I figured I wanted a body on the board that wasn't too easy to kill (at least 3 health, preferably more), and the deck has a lot of overload.

Decks would be so much easier to build if you could go to 35 or 40 cards. I'd get Bloodmage back, Lava Bursts, bring back the Feral Spirits...
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Sagara » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:10 am

There's a saying in many CCGs that if you have one more card than the absolute minimum, you're diluting your own deck.
If you didn't take Lava or Feral, it's because something else was stronger. So, as the weakest cards of the 35-40 you considered, it needs to be cut to maintain constant deck power.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Worldie wrote:I used to like it [mean] back on Sylvanas.

Queldan - EU Stormrage (H) - Good night, sweet prince.
User avatar
Sagara
 
Posts: 3278
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:04 am
Location: Belgium

Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:46 am

It's more that if I put Feral Spirits back in I'd need to commit to changing a lot of other things because of what I'd have to remove. Which might make the deck better overall, but it'd be a different deck.
KysenMurrin
 
Posts: 5215
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:37 am
Location: UK

Re: Hearthstone

Postby Winkle » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:55 am

Worldie wrote:
Winkle wrote:Your priest deck is almost like some kind of aggro deck, every minion is so cheap, accept in my mined that doesn't really work to well for priest since you can't benefit from your hero power that greatly (i.e. you want bigger minions you can keep alive).

Thing is I don't really like high cost minions, as they are too easy to shut down by the 9000 istakill spells&minions. Nothimg more frustrating to do a good play to get that Deathwing down, just to see it taken down by a assassinate.


There's a bit of a difference between deathwing and the 2-3hp minions that make up the majprity of your deck.

Ancient watchers/Injured blademasters into Defender of Argus is a very strong play for priest, since you can keep the taunts alive. Northshire cleric for card draw sat behind those taunts and you're golden.
Winkle
 
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 am

PreviousNext

Return to Other Games

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest