Hearthstone

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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:07 am

At my rank, it's mostly Rogues, though also lots of Druids, mid-range Warlocks, annoying Mages, the occasional Warrior OTK or Hunter Eaglehorn/Secrets deck. Not a lot of giants except in those Warriors and some Warlocks, really.

Just been watching a stream from someone at Legendary and he was very suprised when he came up against the secrets Hunter and a Rogue playing Assassinate, so I think there's actually some big differences in meta within just a few ranks up or down (those players were matching him from rank 4).
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Nooska » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:22 pm

I think I got to rank 24... (but I'm not sure if I played enough ranked to get out of angry chicken)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:11 am

Logged on this morning and the ladder hadn't reset. Thought that was happening on the 2nd?

Also: I'm now down to rank 8. Really doing terribly lately.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:43 pm

I think I finally worked out how to approach the current meta. A couple of weeks ago when I first switched to Druid it was enough to play control and just throw blocks in the way of the faster decks, but since christmas I've been winning less and the last few days were hell.

It's because the Warlocks got slower, and both they and the Warriors started running Molten Giants (they've gotten pretty common since I said I wasn't seeing many). I probably should have figured it out sooner, but after a few Shaman losses today I finally got it. Shaman works pretty well. I have to keep my opponent at about 20 health, draw out the fight, use taunts to protect myself, and wait for the opportunity to bloodlust and kill within two turns (one for Warrior).

I'd already figured out that aggressive play was working better, and added Lava Bursts to my deck. I just hadn't gotten the smart play down yet. I may need more removal because of the Giants-plus-taunt move.

(To do in future: Molten Giants Shaman deck, with weapons to lower health and Windfuries. I still don't have any Giants.)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Flex » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:37 am

The big potential issue with a warrior Molten Giant deck is they can use weapons to lower their own health enough to get out the one turn kill.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:59 pm

Yeah, but if you're preparing to burst them down from ~20 health, they can't really get themselves low enough for the full combo.

Anyway, my Shaman deck started losing badly again, and now I've switched to Mage. I'm using Savjz's deck (but with Counterspell instead of Ice Block, unfortunately), which is sometimes hit-or-miss - it has no AoE, and sometimes I seem to draw nothing but high value cards in the early game. But, it wins games.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Passionario » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:47 am

I got to rank 8. Could probably go further (haven't hit any big roadblocks so far) if I had more time to play this month.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:12 am

Had a good run of arenas yesterday (Priest 5, Shaman 7, Druid 5, and yes, those crappy numbers are good for me), but it's about to come crashing down because I decided to try running Warlock. I knew it was a bad decision, I never do well on Warlock in arena. So far I'm at 0/2.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:27 am

I'm miserable at arena. I'm at rank 16-17 (without legendaries), but my arena runs rarely even get to 3. 1 or 2 is more common. Does anybody have any tips?
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Sagara » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:57 am

If my experience is still valid, the most critical difference between formats is the draft.

a) Don't expect rush decks - those require a very specific deck structure to be viable. You'll likely meet one at most on an average run, and even then it won't be very aggressive.
b) Unless you've got a badass Hero Power, GET A TON OF 2-DROPS!! It's much more difficult to win back the board, as you're completely at the whim of your draft for sweepers. The advantage of early board control is much greater than in normal play.
c) Don't try to build clever combos. For example, Weapon-manipulating Pirates are only going to work if you drafted at least three separate weapon creators, or if you're playing Rogue. The follow-up being...
d) Blank minions, specifically the Yeti and the Ogre are surprisingly good, because they just smash stuff no matter what's on the table. As an aside, the Venture Co guy is deadly in Arena, as you opponent isn't likely to have a lot of tools to keep him out of the fight.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:48 am

I was incredibly embarrassed yesterday when I lost an Arena match to a Warlock who'd drafted Murlocs. Drafting Murlocs in arena is an very stupid thing to try to do, and yet I still managed to lose to him.

Main points: The draft is all about picking the best cards from each set, and secondarily trying to draft into a good curve. A card that's good in constructed is not always good in arena, and vice versa. For example, as Sagara said, the Venture Co. Mercenary. It is huge board presence on turn 5, difficult to deal with.

You don't want to draft cards that rely on other cards for their value. You wouldn't, for example, draft an Ethereal Arcanist if you can't rely on drafting Secrets. On the other hand, a Kirin Tor Mage is a 4/3 for 3 regardless of whether you can use her effect. (Injured Blademaster is also a very nice 4/3 for 3, which gets better if you can heal him - he's also immune to Backstab.)

Also helps to know what cards are generally bad and should pretty much never be taken, eg. Shieldbearer.

The other side is actually playing the matches. Your play is more significant than your deck, really, in the arena format. Learning the best value moves each turn takes a lot of practice and watching other players. I'm sure I'm still not good at it, as evidenced by my complete inability to get above 7 wins.

I've been watching more players on twitch lately (ihearthu.com has a thing now which lists a bunch of streams and tells you which are currently live).

Don't just watch the best players! Watching average or bad players lets you see where they're making mistakes, and how you migvht have done differently. (Kungen, for example, is not a bad player, but he makes a lot of mistakes. More than, say, Savjz, who's one of the top players in the world.)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Passionario » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:54 pm

I have slowly reached the conclusion that I don't really enjoy Arena anymore.

It was fun back when I just started playing, but now that the "oooh, I get to play with rares and epics!" novelty factor has worn off, it really feels like a chore. :(
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:28 am

main thing that makes arena boring for me is that you are playing too many games with every deck. would much rather have the wins capped at 7 or something. gets boring very fast to play with the same 30 cards.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:56 am

Bah. Arena is fun. It challenges you to make the best of non-ideal situations.

And if you're getting bored of a long arena run, leave it, do some ranked, and come back later.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Jan 07, 2014 2:29 pm

This has to be one of the most annoying Arena decisions I've had so far.

Edit: I took the Pyroblast. I had to, really. And then I drew a second Pyro and two Flamestrikes.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Thanks for the arena advice, guys.

I suck at following it though. Tried a priest draft, and promptly went 1-3.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Sagara » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:04 am

Well, Priest ain't the easiest to arena with. It's pretty good at stalling, but it's always hard to have both card advantage and a way to kill the other guy, unless you get a Shadowform, so don't be too surprised.

One thing you could try is note down every choice you did in a draft (with the alternatives) and we could all discuss it for possible pointers.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:34 am

Or for jsut drafting, there's always the Hearthhead practice drafts. I just did a Priest one. IMO my most dubious picks there were Mindgames, and choosing Thoughtsteal over a minion early on.

Honestly, though, I think almsot any arena deck is capable of 3 wins. Watch how other players play, and think about what you would have done in the situation, is my advice. Applejacked is a great streamer to watch for that. He plays constructed, and he talks through every single turn, what his options are and why he's going to do whichever one he does.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:42 am

swapped to this site to track arena stats btw: http://www.arenamastery.com/sitewide.php

everythign else seems to have stopped working and that one's quite nice. although I am too lazy to enter it down to every detail. :)
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:17 am

I may be drafting too few minions. I had a look at Applejack's feed, and I only found one video where he said anything useful (how to beat molten giants). I guess I'll have to look deeper.

I'll definetly put down notes on my next draft. Need to collect a few more gold first.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:34 am

Haven't looked at his videos - try to catch his live stream, I find it pretty useful hearing him think out loud as he plays.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:35 am

Starts in half an hour, nice.
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Paxen » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:48 am

Another 1-win round. Here's my draft (card picked in bold):

Warrior

crazed alchemist/abomination/demolisher
oasis snapjaw/cleave/acolyte of pain
voodoo doctor/scarlet crusader/cruel taskmaster
war golem/ogre magi/darkscale healer
kor'kron elite/arcanite reaper/dread corsair
fiery war axe/shattered sun cleric/inner rage
angry chicken/upgrade!/commanding shout
spellbreaker/battle rage/ironforge rifleman
gnomish inventor/stormwind knight/faerie dragon
emperor cobra/knife juggler/defender of argus
loot hoarder/fen creeper/faerie dragon
voodoo doctor/river crocolisk/dread corsair
lord of the arena/whirlwind/wolfrider
flesheating ghoul/stormwind champion/ironbeak owl
secretkeeper/azure drake/coldlight seer
raid leader/magma rager/loot hoarder
wolfrider/stormwind knight/shield block
stormwind champion/magma rager/mogu'shan warden
frost elemental/venture co. Merc/dalaran mage
blood knight/gorehowl/big game hunter
wild pyromancer/Alarm-o-bot/Pint-sized summoner
silvermoon guardian/darkscale healer/cult master
warsong commander/dalaran mage/silverback patriarch
frostwolf grunt/booty bay bodyguard/argent squire
worgen infiltrator/cleave/whirlwind
leper gnome/bloodfen raptor/spellbreaker
inner rage/battle rage/shieldbearer
mana addict/violet teacher/argent commander
execute/silver hand knight/loot hoarder
knife juggler/coldlight seer/ancient mage
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby KysenMurrin » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:22 am

How I might have done it (where I changed a pick, the old pick is in italics):

crazed alchemist/abomination/demolisher
oasis snapjaw/cleave/acolyte of pain - Early in the pick I tend to favour AoE, as you might not see much of it. Acolyte's good also, though.
voodoo doctor/scarlet crusader/cruel taskmaster
war golem/ogre magi/darkscale healer - It would've have been a close choice for me with the Magi, but stuck with Golem.
kor'kron elite/arcanite reaper/dread corsair
fiery war axe/shattered sun cleric/inner rage
angry chicken/upgrade!/commanding shout - Think Commanding Shout is too situational. Upgrade is another weapon. Not a strong pick either way, though.
spellbreaker/battle rage/ironforge rifleman - Battle Rage is a little slow and situational, I'd take the minion.
gnomish inventor/stormwind knight/faerie dragon - A good 2/4 with card draw. The 2/5 charge isn't great - It would've been my last choice of the 3.
emperor cobra/knife juggler/defender of argus
loot hoarder/fen creeper/faerie dragon
voodoo doctor/river crocolisk/dread corsair - I'm going Corsair here because I already have a lot of 2s, and 3 weapons. Not convinced it's necessarily the best pick though.
lord of the arena/whirlwind/wolfrider
flesheating ghoul/stormwind champion/ironbeak owl - Stayed with Ghoul because I desperately need 3-drops at this point.
secretkeeper/azure drake/coldlight seer
raid leader/magma rager/loot hoarder
wolfrider/stormwind knight/shield block - There's enough card draw at this point, I think, that a slow card like Shield Block isn't needed. I'd almost favour the Knight, but there's still a lack of 3s.
stormwind champion/magma rager/mogu'shan warden
frost elemental/venture co. Merc/dalaran mage
blood knight/gorehowl/big game hunter
wild pyromancer/Alarm-o-bot/Pint-sized summoner - I don't think the Summoner's worth much. Dies too easily to use its ability; Pyromancer is better.
silvermoon guardian/darkscale healer/cult master
warsong commander/dalaran mage/silverback patriarch
frostwolf grunt/booty bay bodyguard/argent squire - A solid 1 drop minion, since I have none and this deck's leaning aggressive. Bodyguard's okay, but only 4 health for 5 mana.
worgen infiltrator/cleave/whirlwind
leper gnome/bloodfen raptor/spellbreaker
inner rage/battle rage/shieldbearer
mana addict/violet teacher/argent commander
execute/silver hand knight/loot hoarder
knife juggler/coldlight seer/ancient mage

...And that's a fairly decent, if a little aggressive, mana curve.

I'd be interested to see where other folks disagree with me, though!
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Re: Hearthstone

Postby Kai » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:41 am

spellbreaker/battle rage/ironforge rifleman

spellbreaker is the pick here. battle rage is too situational.

gnomish inventor/stormwind knight/faerie dragon

faerie dragon for me. 2 drops are super important, especially as warrior has no 'active' hero power. inventor also better then stormwind knight.

emperor cobra/knife juggler/defender of argus

defender of argus. not even in the same league. in constrcuted you can play a juggler with some 1 drops or defend it. that's not how it works in arena. also people play a lot less toughness 1 stuff. it's usually not much better then a generic 3/2. and defender is insane. I'd also pick cobra over juggler.
on top of that with all the weapon dmg you take, you are really in need of taunt as a warrior.

voodoo doctor/river crocolisk/dread corsair

already got 2 weapons. the tempo gain from playing corsair for 0-1 mana is just insane. makes more then up for it being average in other spots.

blood knight/gorehowl/big game hunter

gorehowl. card is very, very good. big game hunter doesn't have target too often. he's awesome if it hits, but gorehowl is imo much better.

wild pyromancer/Alarm-o-bot/Pint-sized summoner

pyromancer. i like summoner but you just get destroyed too often by 2/3s and 3/3s. much better for mages/rogues where you at least can finish off the toughness 3 guy with your hero power. still, pyromancer is better and you already got a couple of spells with cleave, upgrade and shield block.

frostwolf grunt/booty bay bodyguard/argent squire

I agree with the bodyguard here. squire is a good cons card as you play it with dark iron dwarfs and defender of argus. so far there's hardly any buffing in sight which makes him bad.

execute/silver hand knight/loot hoarder

it's nice to actually have real removal, but silver hand knight is so much better then execute that I don't see it being justified. at this point you have an arcanite reaper, 1-2 spellbreakers and should have a gorehowl, that's good enough to take the better card here.
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