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Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:17 am
by KysenMurrin
Constructed is dominated by aggressive everything. The vast majority of decks, for all classes, run the same style, with Shattered Sun Clerics, Dark Iron Dwarfs, Defenders of Argus, and Argent Commanders. Many will also have Harvest Golems, Faerie Dragons, Acolytes of Pain. It just works, and only needs to be tweaked a little for each class. (Of course Warlocks do tend to smaller minion rush decks rather than the mid range style.)

Whenever I've had trouble with a deck, rearranging it to follow that same basic pattern has led to success.

I didn't think Rogues went control - they're all about early damage, aren't they?

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:20 am
by Sagara
Yea, they're really *rushrushrushrushrushrushSprintrushrushrushrushDEAD*

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:36 am
by KysenMurrin
Have you heard of the Frozen Giants deck? Newish Mage control deck that runs Molten Giant, Mountain Giant, Alexstrasza, and a lot of Blizzard/Frost Nova/Cone of Cold. Very few minions but a lot of big finishers. I just came up against it on my Druid - and it was surprisingly easy to counter. The key thing is that it doesn't run Pyroblast or Flamestrike, so once I worked out what deck it was: smooth sailing.

Opponent played Ice Block very early, which meant I worked it out quickly enough that I could play around it. And the strat left enough of my minions on the board - even though they often got frozen - that I could still manage to kill the Giants. Interesting deck, though.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:31 am
by KysenMurrin
I just went 7 wins in Arena for the first time ever! Bad Druid deck, lost two in a row then won seven. Pretty good. First time I've ever earned my money back.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:34 am
by Kai
guy just went knife juggler, knife juggler, backstab, ring leader, defender of argus on me. in arena. must be nice. :)

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:52 am
by Worldie
I'm reading randomly that the current "meta" is to build 1shot decks. As in, survive until you get the cards you need, then play all at same time and make enemy go 30-0 in 1 turn.

Is that real? :s

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:54 am
by Kai
no, the most popular + successful deck is still warlock rush. lots of 1+2 mana stuff, shattered sun cleric, dark iron dwarf, defender of argus, argent commander, soul fires.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:13 pm
by Sagara
And right behind that there's mage aggro that replaces some of the stronger minions with spells.

Although to be honest, one of the bigger deck before that wad the OTK Hunter that used Unleash the Hounds to drop 4+ minions with strong synergy then UtH to smash the other player's face in a single turn without risk of reprisal.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:03 pm
by KysenMurrin
Yeah, right now the Hunter's considered the weakest class, because it only has one real winning style, the OTK, and that fails when it comes up against a Defender of Argus, or any aggro deck that can take them down faster than they collect beasts. (Plus dealing direct damage to the enemy hero, while good for OTK, isn't a strong Hero Power for any other deck styles.)

Definately heard that Warlock is the standard to beat right now. Mage is high up too, with the strategy of controlling the board and beating you down to 10 health by turn 8, then Pyroblast.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:17 am
by Sagara
Well, it think I'm gold as far as Mages go ;-)

I still owe you a rematch where you deck actually complies for once.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:54 am
by Kai
yeah, i've played the hunter OTK deck quite a bit as I also love combo decks in magic. the version I got atm is heavily geared to beating fast creature decks with explosive traps and huntmasters, but the warlock deck just has too much pressure and defender of argus is a huge problem. getting past two medium sized taunt mobs is very tough. plus the warlock deck easily kills you on turn 5-6 even IF you cast a non-explosive trap spell every turn.
soul fire, +4+4 tihng and all the creature buffs are just super efficient. don't think i've lost with the warlock deck against the OTK thing yet.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:18 am
by Sagara
Toyed with an aggro warlock deck "on the cheap" for my Warlock/PRiest domination.
Hoyl sweet mother of God, that is one MEAN mofo. Went 5-1 in Unranked.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:42 am
by Kai
yeah, played warlock rush in the ESL EU tournamnet yesterday, was 4-0 but then our raid started, so had to drop. ran:

2 soul fire
2 power overwhelming
2 blood imp
2 fire imp
2 voidwakler
2 leper gnome
2 argent squire
2 knife juggler
2 faerie dragon
2 razorfin hunter
2 shattered sun cleric
2 dark iron dwarf
2 defender of argus
1 doomguard
2 argent commander
1 jaraxxus

jaraxxus more because it's one of my 2 legendaires, probably just too expensive and should be another 1 or 2 drop or even an arcane golem (leeroy if you got him). doomguard was great for me. had demonfire for a while, it's cool in some spots but drew it turn3+ too often, my 1 drop demons traded off and it was terrible. razorfin hunter over ahrvest golem as it's so good with knife juggler and power overwhelming.
fairly cheap overall and very good.

shattered sun cleric and defender of argus just need to get tuned down imo. every deck that is minion based just has to run 2 each, anything else is ridiculous. probably argent commander too, but that thing at least costs 6.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:09 am
by KysenMurrin
I've seen people saying Shattered Sun Cleric and Defender of Argus should have 2 attack - I'd agree with that.

Argent Commander is very strong but I think it's balanced - 4/3 is low stats for 6 mana, but with the bonuses it's pretty much 4 mana for a minion and 2 mana to deal 4 damage to a minion.

Considering the Argent Commander, and looking at things like Spellbreaker (4/3 with Silence for 4) and the (?) Rifleman (4/2 with 2 damage Battlecry for 5), then it looks like Dark Iron Dwarf at a 4/4 +2 attack for 4 is way too strong. Needs to be lower stats or higher cost.


I just went 3/3 in Arena and received five gold. Five.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:51 am
by Sagara
Well, booster minions are basically used everywhere bcause they enable much better trading mid-game.

Look at Paladin's SoJ with is basically an auto-pick as well.

Sadly, dropping the SSC to 2/2 makes it a poor 3/3 for 3, way below gold standart. DoA could live with a Battlecry: give a friendly minion taunt and +1/+1 (for a 4/4 taunt for 4, just a bit sub-par vs the SHieldmasta, which is very solid) But right now, my line of reasonning is more that those guys are strong because they stay decent into mid-trades.

I think a big point right now is to slow the game some, and then the value of those guys go down by default. Or maybe hit one and let the other suffer the loss of value that rushing suffers.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:31 am
by KysenMurrin
Taking it to 2/2 would be far too much. Making them 2/3 though, with the same Battlecries, I think would work. (Health of minions tends to be more important than attack for controlling the board.)

Shattered Sun Cleric is probably the least in need of changing of the three. Defender of Argus and Dark Iron Dwarf are clearly overbudgeted (5/5 and 6/4 for 4).

I might argue for:
- SSC unchanged
- DoA 2/3, same Battlecry
- Dark Iron Dwarf and Stormpike Commando switch costs (4/4 +2 attack for 5 mana, 4/2 +2 damage for 4 mana)



I'll tell you one card I've started to appreciate lately - though I'd not use it in constructed outside of Priest - and that's Injured Blademaster. 4/3 for 3 mana is good value, though you have to avoid letting it trade with 3/2 2-drops.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:14 pm
by Flex
Changes for next patch:
Shattered Sun Cleric is now a 3/2 (was a 3/3)
Argent Commander is now a 4/2 (was a 4/3)
Flame Imp’s Battlecry now deals 3 damage (up from 2)
Mind Control’s mana cost is now 10 (up from 8)
Starving Buzzard is now a 2/1 (was a 2/2)
Unleash the Hounds has been reworked and now reads: “(4) For each enemy minion, summon a 1/1 Hound with Charge”.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:42 pm
by KysenMurrin
Yikes, big nerf for the Commander. And Unleash the Hounds becomes a pretty weak AoE. Wonder if the Hunter class will manage now that it's lost its main winning strategy.

Edit: Just seen someone pointing out the combo potential of the new Unleash the Hounds. The new spell will interact with Starving Buzzard for card draw, it'll trigger things like Knife Juggler, could be used alongside the "+attack to beasts" minions, and killing the Hounds would work with the Hyena and things like Cult Master. Could actually work well.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:49 pm
by Kai
feels like the changes don't do enough. every minion based deck will still run 2 copies of each cleric, defender, dwarf and commander. and those cards will still be a massive reason to play such decks. would've loved to see the defender take a hit as well at least.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:03 pm
by KysenMurrin
Defender of Argus very much should have. I suspect the only reason it didn't is that it's a Rare, which means less casual players actually have two of them in their decks, so they're not showing up as a problem on a wide scale in their stats.

I think the Unleash the Hounds change would be good if it didn't depend on the number of minions your opponent has played, and it might be too expensive at 4 mana. "Summon 3 1/1 Hounds with Charge" for 3 mana? It's like a Frostbolt, but costs more and interacts with lots of other cards...

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:21 pm
by Flex
I hate murloc decks.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:16 am
by Kai
KysenMurrin wrote:I think the Unleash the Hounds change would be good if it didn't depend on the number of minions your opponent has played, and it might be too expensive at 4 mana. "Summon 3 1/1 Hounds with Charge" for 3 mana? It's like a Frostbolt, but costs more and interacts with lots of other cards...


yeah, I don't see that card being decent either. it's bad if your opponent doesn't have 3+ minions out. and if that's the case, you are most likely in trouble. I guess turn 6 knife juggler +unleash or buzzard + unleash could get you back in the game if you're behind, although with buzzard not even sure. you get to draw some cards, but might not even get the time to use them if your opponent is that far ahead on the board. and the 1/1s probably won't change that fact.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:09 am
by Sagara
Kai wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:I think the Unleash the Hounds change would be good if it didn't depend on the number of minions your opponent has played, and it might be too expensive at 4 mana. "Summon 3 1/1 Hounds with Charge" for 3 mana? It's like a Frostbolt, but costs more and interacts with lots of other cards...


yeah, I don't see that card being decent either. it's bad if your opponent doesn't have 3+ minions out. and if that's the case, you are most likely in trouble. I guess turn 6 knife juggler +unleash or buzzard + unleash could get you back in the game if you're behind, although with buzzard not even sure. you get to draw some cards, but might not even get the time to use them if your opponent is that far ahead on the board. and the 1/1s probably won't change that fact.


Honestly, had they made the Hounds 3/1 Chargers, it still would be far from OP - who honestly keeps more than 3 minions on the board? Well okay, maybe Pallies and Shammies, but even then that'd be a learning experience for the Pally/Sham.

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:45 am
by Kai
Image

Re: Hearthstone

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:51 am
by Worldie
Hearthstone: The only game where they don't nerf mages. (and paladins)