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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:14 am
by Sagara
Yeah, it's actually an important, but goddammit badly informed system. Although, to be honest, I often end up using a skill from each set in the end anyway...

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:43 am
by Flex
Aubade wrote:Just completed my first playthrough! Killing Diablo was quite satisfying, although on medium difficulty on normal mode it was pretty damn easy haha.

ON TO NIGHTMARE!


Hell is when it got really difficult on Launch for PC, three affix elites/champs and general hurtiness of everything. Did a play through of normal a while back at MP10 and didn't die once.

Nothing can compare to Act 2 Launch Inferno though. It was nearly impossible for anything not a Demon Hunter, escaping the canyon with the wasps and the prowlers was a 10 death experience at best.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:50 am
by Sagara
Oh, it's not quite as bad now, but it's still quite the wakeup call for first timers there...

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:16 pm
by Flex
Sagara wrote:Oh, it's not quite as bad now, but it's still quite the wakeup call for first timers there...


Man, if they got the loot system right the difficulty of Act 2, I mean difficulty not stupid things like machine gun wasps and the mobs whose overhead attack tracked the players, might've not been an issue since it would've felt like progress if you could actually farm Act 1 to find upgrades.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:23 pm
by Era
I still think they should've kept (more or less) the original difficulty, and then added monster power on top of that. And no AH. Would perhaps have made crafting more desirable as a way to help gear up alts, too.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:07 pm
by Worldie
Well on new chars (so with twinkish gear from AH, high lvl gems in items with socket and legendary exp ring) I can faceroll MP10 normal - nightmare, but on Hell I have to go down to mp4-5 and even there I can often die if I don't pay attention.

I say Hell is quite a step up.

And yep. I finished Inferno pre huge nerf on my barbarian (built full tank with barely 12k dps), then after first nerf (the one that basically stopped elites from regenerating when you die), I also finished it with Wizard.
Act 2+ was painful though, some elites would take fucking ages to die even with 50k DPS on my Wizard and Act4 was a fucking nightmare.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:24 pm
by Era
I think Belial on Inferno was the biggest brick wall for me during my first playthrough. Diablo was hard, but mostly because the fight is so darn long.

EDIT: Sort of like Heroic Spine of Deathwing vs. Heroic Madness back in Cata, tbh! :lol:

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:27 am
by Worldie
Thing with Belial is, he's a complete walkover with melee chars, and hard as fuck with ranged ones. With my Barb I could just stand in shit (bar the explosion rain) and outheal it. With my Wizard I had to constantly gtfo from everything and pray I would dodge the punches.


Also, on the former Inferno difficulty.
Inferno wasnt *that* painful per se. In monster HP / Damage it's comparable to nowadays MP3.
However, people had much shittier gear back then, seeing more than 50k DPS was rare, and most people would run with 10-20k at most.
Killing 3 million HP bees with 10k DPS took fucking ages.
Now everyone runs 100k or more DPS as soon as they ding 60, thus making Inferno a essential joke unless you play with very high MP.


The stats with which I finished Inferno the first time (there's the screenshot several pages before) I was running 8k DPS Barbarian with 1h+shield and full defensive build (1k resist 12k+ armor) to survive.
Today, the same barb runs less than 400 resist and 3k armor, but with over 150k DPS, even if a monster hit takes off 50% of my Hp bar, in a single hit i outheal it.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:19 am
by Era
Worldie wrote:However, people had much shittier gear back then, seeing more than 50k DPS was rare, and most people would run with 10-20k at most.
Killing 3 million HP bees with 10k DPS took fucking ages.
Now everyone runs 100k or more DPS as soon as they ding 60, thus making Inferno a essential joke unless you play with very high MP.


Yeah, the gear definitely plays a huge part in smoothing out the difficulty, which is why I think removing the AH is a good idea. I guess we still have the shared stash and the ability to trade in some form or another, but just reducing the insane accessibility and oversupply of relatively high-end gear might make the difficulties seem significant again.

Era wrote:I still think they should've kept (more or less) the original difficulty, and then added monster power on top of that. And no AH. Would perhaps have made crafting more desirable as a way to help gear up alts, too.


The original Inferno sure had issues of its own, and while I remember feeling frustrated at some points (some bits of Heaven were hell, if you know what I mean) I still had an overall enjoyable experience (speaking only in terms of difficulty/challenge here).

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:30 am
by Flex
I am pretty sure you beat inferno after the first round of nerfs Worldie, since you did it after me and I could barely beat the Witch in Act 2 before the nerfs started rolling in.

Basically patch 1.03 in mid June 2012 allowed progression as it was the first to greatly reduce Inferno damage.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:07 pm
by Worldie
I said it, I beat it right after the patch that removed the regen from elites.

It was still hard as fuck, my Monk couldnt even get past the first trash of Act 3, and my WD never made it to Maghda.



As I said though, it's gear. In difficulty / damage, old Inferno is comparable to current MP3.
Try doing MP3 with similar stats to what we had back then (<20k dps, barely 30k hp) and tell me if it's so "easy".

It's the gear that destroyed the difficulty. My Demon Hunter is running over 200k DPS, I can DESTROY anything up to mp8, they don't even get in melee range. If i had 20k dps however, that'd be a completely different story.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:58 pm
by Flex
Worldie wrote:As I said though, it's gear. In difficulty / damage, old Inferno is comparable to current MP3.
Try doing MP3 with similar stats to what we had back then (<20k dps, barely 30k hp) and tell me if it's so "easy".

It's the gear that destroyed the difficulty. My Demon Hunter is running over 200k DPS, I can DESTROY anything up to mp8, they don't even get in melee range. If i had 20k dps however, that'd be a completely different story.


Old post-1.0.3 or pre-1.0.3?

Launch inferno with current gear might be fun, though I'm sure Act 2 wasps would destroy everyone still.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:02 am
by Worldie
Well pre 1.0.3 was such a fucking overtuned nightmare that I don't think it would be fun to run even with 100k+ dps.

On the wasps, I remind hitting act 2 and having a single mini-poison-wasp hit me for over 15k HP and a mob melee hit me for over 20k. Not fun.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:23 am
by Skye1013
I just finished Nightmare on my WD (lvl 51, no clue as to his stats atm.) I thought I had already made it into at least Hell, but apparently that wasn't the case (haven't played in forever, only recently got an itch to mess around on it.)

As for my skills (don't remember all the names)... I use:

Inferno Bomb (with bounce run)
Haunt (with life steal)
Spirit Walk (don't remember rune)
The AoE that gives Int based on number of targets hit (with heal rune)
Acid AoE (don't remember rune)
Gargantuan (enrage vs elites/bosses rune)

As for gear, I know I've got +xp pieces, just to get to level cap quicker (I'll worry about magic and/or gold find after that if I feel like farming.) What stats are good for WD beyond Int? Attack speed? Life steal?

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:48 am
by Worldie
Uhm. There's a lot of valid WD builds.

If you are aiming for a pet oriented build you want to aim for pieces with high Vitality and armor or all resist. Not necessarly all toghether, but best pieces have at least 2 survivability stats.
You also take skills that allow auto summoning of dogs and pet survivability.

It's quite fun but certain elites are fucking painful to deal with (the ones with 1shot abilities).


Other approaches are a tanky build with bats to essentially outheal any damage you take (in similar fashion of barbarians), or focus on ranged abilities and CC to kite mobs to death.

Here's my WD, homemade build made for my gameplay, based on kiting and aoeing stuff to death.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Worl ... /hero/6119

Gearing for a damage oriented build is not really complicate. You want tons of Int. Crit damage does increase your DPS significantly, but it's not so noticeable in the actual damage until you also have some crit to go with it. Avoid attack speed, doesn't give you much.
Mana regen is fucking important. Try to get mana regen on helm, and offhand, and maybe weapon too. Once you hit 60, getting your hands on 4 cheap versions of Zunimasa set items is a huge boost to both damage and survivability (the ones i got are almost BiS versions costing several millions, aim for something less expensive first ;) )
Also HP gem on helm after you are 60, unless you manage to run over 40k HP without it, you really want that extra survivability.

What stats you will in the end look for will depend on how you play. Certain builds can be played with full glass cannon setups, others instead prefer lower DPs and higher defense.

Gl exping witch doctor as it's in my opinion the funniest class to play.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 am
by Era
Worldie wrote:Gl exping witch doctor as it's in my opinion the funniest class to play.


I almost agree! It's definitely a lot of fun, one of the more interesting classes. Only reason I'm hesitating is because
Image
Not sure if actually more fun than Wizard, or just played Wizard too much. :roll:

There was a thing called Freeze-Doctor I think? I never looked it up because my WD didn't hit cap until recently, but might be worth a Google!

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:36 am
by Worldie
Thats the wizard spec as far as I know, WD doesnt have any "freeze" ability as far as I remember.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:12 am
by Flex
The pet aspect of the WD intrigued em the most, so I was very happy with the pet changes they added to make them viable in Hell+

My general pet gearing was vitality, all resist, Life per Second and thorns before I got some Zunimassa pieces from Barb farming.

Skill set up is
Firebomb: Roll the Bones
Zombie Charger: Zombie Bears
Zombie Dogs: Leeching Beasts
Spirit Walk: Healing Journey
Acid Cloud: Acid Rain
Gargantuan: Big Stinker
Passives: Fierce Loyalty, Zombie Handler, Jungle Fortitude though Bad Medicine may be a better choice.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:41 am
by Worldie
I tend to prefer rain of frogs to fire bomb, mostly because it doesnt have travel time and does stupidly high damage on enemies that are standing still.


Never been a fan of the zombie bear / bats builds, maybe I'm just bad at managing mana with them though.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:30 pm
by Era
Nah, the Wizard freeze build is the CM/WW build (Crit Mass / Wicked Wind).

Found some videos for the WD Freeze Doc, not watched them through though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ6vjNHVkTA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i2ljKNuPW4

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:36 am
by Worldie
Ahhh.. it's not a build based on an actual ability, but rather on stacking chance to freeze and spam aoe that ticks a lot of times to keep mobs frozen in front of the pets.

Uhm, not really fun in my opinion.

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:15 am
by Era
CC/WW for Wizards has much of the same problem. You basically spam a few buttons constantly until everything is dead. Can tank anything, even at MP10, with basically no gear - but extremely slow (at high MPs) if you're going solo. Got real old real fast, so switched to Archon after that, which is like a hot chainsaw through pre-heated butter. :roll:

Apparently you want a lower difficulty (MP3-4) for a highly geared Archon, because speed > drop chances, but I find that if I bump the difficulty up to 8, where I actually have to care a bit about what I'm doing, it's more enjoyable. Legendaries per hour is probably lower, but fun is an important factor too!

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:59 am
by Flex
Era wrote: fun is an important factor too!


That's why Whirlwind/Sprint sucks!

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:38 pm
by Flex

Re: Diablo 3 is live!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:29 pm
by Worldie
Flex wrote:
Era wrote: fun is an important factor too!


That's why Whirlwind/Sprint sucks!

I disagree, I find it extremely fun. To get in the role even better when I play it, I also yell DEMACIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA