Diablo 3 is live!

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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Worldie » Fri May 25, 2012 2:13 pm

Fact 1:
I'm now running a Vision combination:
1 Buff Fetish with mana return
2 Army of fetish
3 Summon Dogs
4 Gargantua
left Firey Jumping Balls of Doom
right Firebats with damage enhance rune
Gameplay resolves in having 1-4 constantly on CD, and having near-infinite mana to spam Firebats
Has anyone tried Vision combinations and eventually find them fun or found a different combination than this?


Fact 2:
A friend of mine plays Monk, he likes to play solo, he's up to Act 2 in Hell but has troubles staying alive: what kind of setup and/or stat priority can I suggest him to become less vulnerable to oneshots?
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Levantine » Fri May 25, 2012 3:38 pm

Stack Vitality. Play a full defensive build. Monks and Barbs are struggling for the most part in late Hell and Inferno though.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Zalaria » Fri May 25, 2012 5:47 pm

Not just vitality. Resists too! If your friend is 45, he has access to the One With Everything passive, which makes all resists equal to the highest. Take that passive, go to the AH and load up on one kind of resist, and take a ton less damage.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby aureon » Fri May 25, 2012 5:49 pm

Inferno is broken.

No, really.
There's no going around it. It's broken. Completely and faillessly.
Act 1 is nearly doable. With a lot of effort, and handy AHing.
Act 2 steps up it's act. Belial hits naked characters for ~600k on a breath.
Basically, to do Inferno act 2 you need gear from act IV. Which is avaiable from those who abused now-defunt strategies. (Quickening Monk, Zero Vitality Mage, PermaNova Mage, Mantra of Evasion/Shielding Monk + barb, and some others i surely do not know).

The act II Elites are NOT doable in gear from act I. And this is beyond the mere conception of "retarded", IMHO.
It's profit-seeking from having the AH transfers the only good way to gear up, on a scale and breadth i would've never expected from Blizzard.

Oh, and it's that way for Monk and Barbarian. DH, Mage and WD could, in some twisted, twisted way, survive act II and III, since they do not need to go close and personal.
Currently sitting on 450 all-resist, 35k hp, and 6.5k armor. Plus an hefty dodge. WHITES in act 2 burst me down.

Worldie wrote:
Fact 2:
A friend of mine plays Monk, he likes to play solo, he's up to Act 2 in Hell but has troubles staying alive: what kind of setup and/or stat priority can I suggest him to become less vulnerable to oneshots?

He'd better getting used to Attack->Serenity->Seven-Sided-Strike, kite until Serenity is back up again.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Torakka » Fri May 25, 2012 9:55 pm

aureon wrote:The act II Elites are NOT doable in gear from act I.


That's actually not completely true. Yes, some combinations are just impossible and rest usually require few deaths, but I've managed to solo up to Maghda and kill her with 2 stacks of NV-buff. I did it as barbarian with quite tanky spec and self-buffed ~8500 armour, 418+ all resist and "epic" 6k DPS. Cheap vitality + all resist (sub lvl 60 so obtainable from act 1 and hell) gear is your friend. It's definitely slow and even most normal packs feel like threat, but is is doable.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby aureon » Sat May 26, 2012 1:21 am

Mh. My barbarian mate is complaining he's stuck in act 2, with a gear a bit better than yours.
with AHd gear and party play, we got to Belial, but we need to skip more than half the combinations in the 2nd part of act II.
And belial is hilariously damaging.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Treck » Sat May 26, 2012 2:00 am

Yes, Act 1- act 2 is a BIG stepup.
But the game is already all about the gear.
Many people enter Act 1 inferno with crap gear, and dont realise it that much cuz act 1 is pretty "easy".
Once you reach act 2 you realise you did not aquire enough gear to push through, mainly cuz the packs are insane.
After quite a few days of just farming act 1, or slowly progressing act2, a LOT of gear has been found, and when going into act2 now, I can almost feel like I have some control over tanking again.

Act 1 inferno Is like cataclysm beeing released all over again, hard bosses, people have little to no gear so shit takes time.
Act 2 is like stepping up to dragonsould thinking the gear you had in act1 works fine cuz it did last time.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat May 26, 2012 2:16 am

Well I've barely started the game but I chose a Monk, and I'm getting the impression that's a bad idea for the higher levels?
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Torakka » Sat May 26, 2012 3:17 am

Well, at least currently it seems that ranged classes, especially wizards and demon hunters, have an edge over melee. I can't really say how big the disparity is now that the most broken abilities have been nerfed, but it is still there. (I have personal experience only from barbarian up to inferno act 2 and DH up to nightmare act 2, so most of that "ranged are bit better" is based on threads in Blizzard's class-specific forums. While not by any means some ultimate source of truth, there seems to be more "how to farm act 4?" threads in DH forum and more "first pack one-shot me in act 2!" threads in barbarian forum.)

However, melee classes (or at least barbarians) scale very well with gear and once you have acquired enough defensive stats for any given difficulty/act you can pretty much faceroll it (meleeing SK during whirlwind, standing still while fighting molten/plagued/desecrator packs). Ranged can supposedly do that too, but they need better gear due to more offense-oriented skills and passives. (That might actually be false, since I don't know/remember their skills too well. Please correct if needed.) Therefore, with ranged class you're stuck with kiting, at least for a quite long time.

Ultimately, if the time it takes to get to inferno Diablo and then kill him is no issue for you, just pick a class whose gameplay you like the most. From a pure power-gaming point of view you're probably better of with either DH or wizard, maybe WD.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Treck » Sat May 26, 2012 5:19 am

Yeh, with gear, everything is possible.
IF you are soloing, what class you pick doesnt make that much differance.
If you are undergeared, ranged will kite, while meele might have a hard time.
Once you overgear it, melee can stand still and take the damage, and ranged will kill them so fast they dont even touch you.
However, as soon as you are playing multiplayer, its a big differance, you will want a "tank" to keep the mobs in line (best that he can obviously) while you have proper dpsers doing the damage.
Ranged can reach much higher dps values than melee can, but at the same time they will likely get oneshotted at that point.
Melee could in theory do the same, but that means they cant be in melee cuz one hit kills you, so you HAVE to go for defensive stats aswell.

Barb "dps" pretty much means kill them before they kill you after your CDs run out, while barb tanks just slowly wind them down.
Thus in a 4man group, the barb "dps" strat is a bit left out as you wont be able to take that much damage, and everything have so much health that you will not kill them before they kill you, so evolves more or less into just using all CDs and nuking for 20sec, then kiting for 2 min before going back.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Fivelives » Sat May 26, 2012 5:33 am

Monks don't really want to stack vit too high, since their heals don't scale with their hp. Seems what you want to do is keep your health around the 35k mark while shooting for high armor/resists and as much attack speed and life per hit that you can manage.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Gracerath » Sat May 26, 2012 6:55 am

If there wasn't the ability to easily play with my friends, I would have stopped after my first playthrough. I don't generally like these kinds of games and I really am not the kind of person that will enjoy farming the same stuff over and over again (I gave up raiding for a reason). The thought of going through Act 1 yet again, even on a harder difficulty, is draining the little enjoyment I got out of the game in the first place.

That said, its certainly solid and I can see the general mass appeal. Its just not for me. I'll most likely play through once more on nightmare difficulty with a friend before uninstalling.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat May 26, 2012 8:05 am

Yeah, I keep wondering where all the people are to complain that they just released the same content four times over, and that the hardest fights can be done by anyone on the easy mode. They come out of the woodwork when it's done in WoW.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Fridmarr » Sat May 26, 2012 8:48 am

With Wow you are paying a monthly fee so to keep the game fun and to get new content, on top of the regular game cost for each expansion. The ultimate cost of WoW becomes quite high over time compared to Diablo, so it's entirely fair to have a double standard for content expectations.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby sahiel » Sat May 26, 2012 10:50 am

Honestly, the actual amount of content isn't a huge deal, it's how long that same content can keep you entertained and happy playing. If someone made a game that was only one room but has some brilliant gameplay mechanics that kept people playing for hours, that would be fine, conversely, a game might have sprawling landscapes & 1000's of miles of dungeons to explore but if it's all boring no-one will care. Quality of content > amount of content.

Given how much people seem to be playing it atm it seems the quality is enough to keep them coming back for more, will that be the case in 3 months, let alone years, or will people want new content? Hard to say, D2 managed to keep a solid fanbase playing for 10 years after all. We'll see if they can manage the same this time round.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Treck » Sat May 26, 2012 5:32 pm

Gracerath wrote:If there wasn't the ability to easily play with my friends, I would have stopped after my first playthrough. I don't generally like these kinds of games and I really am not the kind of person that will enjoy farming the same stuff over and over again (I gave up raiding for a reason). The thought of going through Act 1 yet again, even on a harder difficulty, is draining the little enjoyment I got out of the game in the first place.

I for one certainly liked the whole leveling experience tbh.
sure, its the "same" thing over and over, altho with the difficulty jump id say the last time on inferno its a completely different experience.
But in any case, I cant really see myself ever leveling another character by myself further than diablo on normalmode, I just really dont see any appeal in it unless I just really want another toplvl char, but then Id likely not level it by myself.
However with how easy they made it playing multiplayer, and how (imo) they succeeded nicely with it, i can see myself starting a ton of toons and playing with friends.
I dont know how many times me and my friends reached act 3 or something on a LAN but lost the save files and had to restart the next time we gathered (or more/less people attended) and its likely this will happen again in D3, but more online tho.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Koatanga » Sat May 26, 2012 5:52 pm

The most annoying thing about D3, to me, is that server maintenance is at the same time as WoW server maintenance.

It's as if they want me to play something else during that time.

It doesn't mean much for the US audience, but for those of us for whom maintenance falls in prime time, it's really annoying.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Fivelives » Sat May 26, 2012 7:00 pm

I don't think D3 is going to have anything even approaching the lifespan of D2, for one simple reason:

The auction house.

The diablo series has always been unabashedly about farming that next great sparkly bit of loot, and the rush when it drops or you find someone to trade with for whatever. Adding an auction house takes away most of that - what's the point in farming it when you can just buy it off the AH instead? Whether you pay time (gold AH) or money (RMAH), it's still taking away a good 80% of the game.

Also, the story doesn't really merit multiple replays. I'll probably run through Normal mode once on everything just for the class specific stuff, but as far as endgame (what little there is), I'm going to leave that at my wizard and monk.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Flex » Sun May 27, 2012 7:49 am

The crafting system could be redesigned a bit to be provide benefits towards the non-AH gear chase for progression. Currently you make level 60 gear with random stats. They could change it to make gear more focused towards whatever class you're playing. So if you're on your barbarian and you're making the level 60 rare shoulders that drop you would by default get Str/Vit/+2 random magic properties.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Nikachelle » Sun May 27, 2012 12:40 pm

Finally got access to D3 today after weeks of them mucking up my annual pass.

I like it! I've never played the other Diablo games, but so far I like this one. Takes a bit of getting used after having only played WoW for so many years. Went for Barbarian since the chick was hot, if not somewhat butch.

I don't feel the burning desire to complete everything all at once, which is a bit of a relief. So I'll play it slowly and see how it goes. Although all those achievements are certainly tempting...
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby PsiVen » Sun May 27, 2012 2:17 pm

Really enjoying my melee wizard, about to hit 60 on her. So far she has managed to avoid the nerfbat that was swung at the ranged Critical Mass builds, but I am still nervous that the tweaks they implement for melee viability in Inferno will only be for Monk/Barb like their original band-aid 30% reduction. It's a fun build with the secondary and 3rd passive slots (Wave of Force and Galvanizing Ward) pretty much whatever you want them to be depending on gear.

I think the game would have serious longevity issues in its current form due to boring choices in itemization and the absence of a large variety of legendaries to go for, but I have faith in Blizzard to fix that over time. I'm not sure the crappy Battle.Net 2.0 interface will get better anytime soon, but AH improvements are inevitable.

The item market wants a wide variety of powerful, extremely rare legendaries which are still good even if their random affixes are terrible. The thing they're really trying to avoid is stuff like Enigma and CTA where the item provides a completely unique and powerful thing that nothing else can come close to, and it's not that hard to steer design away from that area.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Gab » Sun May 27, 2012 4:35 pm

Fivelives wrote:I don't think D3 is going to have anything even approaching the lifespan of D2, for one simple reason:

The auction house.

The diablo series has always been unabashedly about farming that next great sparkly bit of loot, and the rush when it drops or you find someone to trade with for whatever. Adding an auction house takes away most of that - what's the point in farming it when you can just buy it off the AH instead? Whether you pay time (gold AH) or money (RMAH), it's still taking away a good 80% of the game.


It's no different than farming gold and SoJs in D2 was... more convenient maybe but it's the exact same principle. The only reason it was more difficult in D2 was you had to find someone on a forum or in game rather than just going straight to the AH and the currency was SoJs instead of gold or real money.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby rodos » Sun May 27, 2012 8:58 pm

It's funny, that from what I'm reading melee classes are harder and/or less fun at high level. I picked up Monk as my first character and have found it very fun to play right from the start (only to level 27 in Act III normal so far). If that changes significantly, I'll be disappointed. The Wizard starting experience felt terrible by comparison. The "signature attack" was slow and ineffective (other classes can 1-shot early mobs), and the only control ability you get is frost beam, which is quite unwieldy. In contrast, Witchdoctor felt stupidly OP at the beginner levels - just chuck out the AoE graspy hands and stuff dies before it gets to you. Then you get to summon dogs!

I think it's not good game design to have classes that change significantly in their power/play-style over the course of leveling up. The low level (i.e. first 20 minutes) play for various classes should also be equally fun and give you a real feel for the class.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the situation, and the way a wizard plays at level 3 is similar to how it plays at 30 and 60, and I just don't like that style. Running about like a madman and always looking at my health gobe isn't really fun for me. Perhaps too many years playing a paladin and loving to round 'em up and mow 'em down - though I did have fun leveling a shadow priest in WoW DoT-kiting mobs too.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby Koatanga » Sun May 27, 2012 10:02 pm

Once your Wiz gets some gear, he feels suitably overpowered for Act I. Mine is just a baby, but at level 11 with 67 DPS, he oblioterates stuff.
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Re: Diablo 3 is live!

Postby rodos » Sun May 27, 2012 11:37 pm

Koatanga wrote:Once your Wiz gets some gear, he feels suitably overpowered for Act I. Mine is just a baby, but at level 11 with 67 DPS, he oblioterates stuff.

I guessed that would be the case - I only played him for a little bit on the EU server when the US had extended maintenance last week.

I just think the initial skill selection is poor compared to what the Monk and WD get. Both of them get a nice single target attack at level 1, and an AoE+control ability at level 2, which is probably enough toolkit to get you through several more levels, notwithstanding the other stuff then unlock (did I mention you can summon zombie dogs?!). Wizard gets a weak single target, a single-target dmg+control ability, then an emergency button (frost nova) so you can run away. It made me feel weak, not heroic.

The starter DH abilities felt a bit iffy too, but the character came across as more of a bad-ass, so it was ok. :)
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