Rift

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Re: Rift!

Postby pierth » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:27 pm

Skye1013 wrote:Haven't been able to play, but reading off the wiki, I think I'm likely to try a necro/plant(chlorowhatsit)/dom mage. Not sure where I'm going with that, but they seem like interesting souls, and the combination should be intriguing :)


Totally your call, but I advise warlock for pretty much any mage build. Being able to lifetap for mana is completely worth it. As far as Dom, I tried it in beta 6 but you have to spec pretty deep in it for the good stuff. YMMV especially at cap vs. lvl 20.
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Re: Rift!

Postby bldavis » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:49 pm

decided im doing 2 things when i get home
1) leveling my cleric (templar/druid/shaman)
2) making a mostly def warrior

YEP! IM GOIN TANK!
:twisted:

god have mercy on my groups souls
(no pun intended)
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:02 pm

pierth wrote:
Skye1013 wrote:Haven't been able to play, but reading off the wiki, I think I'm likely to try a necro/plant(chlorowhatsit)/dom mage. Not sure where I'm going with that, but they seem like interesting souls, and the combination should be intriguing :)


Totally your call, but I advise warlock for pretty much any mage build. Being able to lifetap for mana is completely worth it. As far as Dom, I tried it in beta 6 but you have to spec pretty deep in it for the good stuff. YMMV especially at cap vs. lvl 20.


One thing to consider is that your third spec is likely to be the least delved into as you get points. I can't remember the total amount of points you get to spend in Soul Trees, but the ZAM and other calculators seem to think you can only go to 66 points. Top tier tree abilities will cost you 31pts to get, and it seems that many tends to do not go much beyond the 31, but it completely depends on your spec.

My advice on the third soul is to find something that has an impactful damage or class buff benefit within the first two branches in so that it's within reach for your final spec.
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Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:02 pm

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Re: Rift!

Postby Skye1013 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:50 am

Punkss2 wrote:As mentioned before, its open Beta from [tommorrow] to next monday i beleive!
http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?55846-Rift™-Open-Beta-Event-Scheduled-to-Start-February-15th!

By the time I'm able to get it downloaded, the game will have been released for a month :D
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Re: Rift!

Postby Fivelives » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:42 am

So I'm gonna start playing this blind. My current thinking is a paladin/warlord/champion (based on the class descriptions on the website) to give myself some flexibility in soloing while still keeping an instantly desirable role for groups. If I can switch points around whenever, I'd alternate between a paladin/warlord secondary and champion/warlord secondary. I might keep paladin as a secondary, depending on how it plays. Either way, the site has it as both paladins and warlords buffing the group, and champs being kind of pure DPS. So a DPS/self-buffer or a self/group-buffing tank.

I'd like to have some kind of self-heals though, they especially come in handy when soloing. I hope paladins get that.
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Re: Rift!

Postby Eltiana » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:03 am

Fivelives wrote:So I'm gonna start playing this blind. My current thinking is a paladin/warlord/champion (based on the class descriptions on the website) to give myself some flexibility in soloing while still keeping an instantly desirable role for groups. If I can switch points around whenever, I'd alternate between a paladin/warlord secondary and champion/warlord secondary. I might keep paladin as a secondary, depending on how it plays. Either way, the site has it as both paladins and warlords buffing the group, and champs being kind of pure DPS. So a DPS/self-buffer or a self/group-buffing tank.

I'd like to have some kind of self-heals though, they especially come in handy when soloing. I hope paladins get that.

Higher up in the tree, you can spec so some of your abilities have the chance to proc self heals I believe.
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Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:18 am

Fivelives wrote:So I'm gonna start playing this blind. My current thinking is a paladin/warlord/champion (based on the class descriptions on the website) to give myself some flexibility in soloing while still keeping an instantly desirable role for groups. If I can switch points around whenever, I'd alternate between a paladin/warlord secondary and champion/warlord secondary. I might keep paladin as a secondary, depending on how it plays. Either way, the site has it as both paladins and warlords buffing the group, and champs being kind of pure DPS. So a DPS/self-buffer or a self/group-buffing tank.

I'd like to have some kind of self-heals though, they especially come in handy when soloing. I hope paladins get that.


For tanking, I'll probably go Paladin/Reaver/VoidKnight. You can't really get too far in Warlord to make it worth getting unless you choose is as your secondary spec, but Reaver is so good for threat, I can't pass it up. One of the very early abilities you get is essentially ranged Pestilence, and makes AOE Tanking simple.

Will probably do something like this for Beta 7 Max-level tanking: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=1cAhE.x0Vz.ExRhsciozbz.x
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Re: Rift!

Postby Fivelives » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:28 am

Warlord is going to be the secondary in that plan. I haven't been reading anything about the game, and have actively told my friends to stop spoiling it for me - I want to compare What It Says On The Tin with what the actual gameplay is like. So far, everything I know about it comes from their website, and that people say it's relatively polished already.
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Re: Rift!

Postby Loras » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:42 am

Simply by picking Warlord as a soul (without investing a single point in it), you get a permanent aura that reduces enemies' chance to hit by 5%. That's effectively 5% avoidance just for choosing a soul. I find that pretty godly for a 3rd soul :)
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Re: Rift!

Postby Fivelives » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:59 am

I've been playing for a few days now, and must say - I'm not all that impressed. They took a lot of ideas from other games - the quest system from WoW, the public quest/invasion thing from WAR, etc, and a lot of the classes seem pretty cut & paste from other games. But the only thing they did that I've never seen in another game (the class system) is ridiculously unintuitive and needlessly overcomplicated. It'll also make for a balancing nightmare.

Surprisingly, the thing that bugs me the most? No keybind for /follow. I had to blow a macro spot for it. I'll keep playing it for now, just to see if it wins me over, but it already lost the war of first impressions. Sure, it's pretty - but graphics aren't everything.
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Re: Rift!

Postby bldavis » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:54 am

as im playing more and more
i find my self asking why i even have my warlord and reaver souls?
i just use my paladin one mostly....

plus as im going up that tree, i get a new ability and think OMG I HAZ AS NOW!!!
then there is a ability that you smack them with your shield and it increases your block

a strike that reduces armor and does lots of threat...

its like im home again!
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
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Re: Rift!

Postby Eaglestrike » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:40 pm

bldavis wrote:as im playing more and more
i find my self asking why i even have my warlord and reaver souls?
i just use my paladin one mostly....

plus as im going up that tree, i get a new ability and think OMG I HAZ AS NOW!!!
then there is a ability that you smack them with your shield and it increases your block

a strike that reduces armor and does lots of threat...

its like im home again!


The first couple tiers of the Reaver tree are quite excellent. AD damage mitigation, pure DR, DoT spreading and making a DoT heal you. It really is nice.
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Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:21 pm

Eaglestrike wrote:
bldavis wrote:as im playing more and more
i find my self asking why i even have my warlord and reaver souls?
i just use my paladin one mostly....

plus as im going up that tree, i get a new ability and think OMG I HAZ AS NOW!!!
then there is a ability that you smack them with your shield and it increases your block

a strike that reduces armor and does lots of threat...

its like im home again!


The first couple tiers of the Reaver tree are quite excellent. AD damage mitigation, pure DR, DoT spreading and making a DoT heal you. It really is nice.


Definitely agreed. Paladin will be my primary soul, with reaver secondary, and warlord 0pt for the miss aura.
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Re: Rift!

Postby bldavis » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:40 pm

pally/reaver with warlord for aura
2nd role (spec) is BM, Champion, riftblade

now i just need to find a decent weapon....
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.
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Re: Rift!

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:24 pm

Decided to give this a try, all I knew about it was a talent tree link from this thread. Went Paladin main, of course. Lot of abilities, but half of them seem redundant.

Interesting overall, a lot like WoW in basic mechanics with a few nice touches but some annoying niggles, too. I'm not sure I like the graphical style, though.

I like the built in UI customisation, but is there any way to resize menu windows? The soul tree window covers almost the whole screen, and the rest are mostly oversize.
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Re: Rift!

Postby d503 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:36 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Decided to give this a try, all I knew about it was a talent tree link from this thread. Went Paladin main, of course. Lot of abilities, but half of them seem redundant.

Interesting overall, a lot like WoW in basic mechanics with a few nice touches but some annoying niggles, too. I'm not sure I like the graphical style, though.

I like the built in UI customisation, but is there any way to resize menu windows? The soul tree window covers almost the whole screen, and the rest are mostly oversize.


Think the Soul Tree's bad now? It used to be fullscreen ><

I think they have so much data to display in it, it kinda necessitates being large.

As far as controlling the size of elements, you can select any particular menu/UI item while in the UI config and scale it up down, alpha it up or down.
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Re: Rift!

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:57 pm

I noticed that for the UI, but the only menu-type part I've been able to resize is the map. The main UI scale slider in the interface menu only seems to affect the same as the individual UI customisation settings. Character sheet fills half the screen, NPC dialogue fills a good portion, it's all much bigger than necessary.
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Re: Rift!

Postby Gracerath » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:05 pm

A friend of mine wrote this about the game. I haven't played it but I have no strong desire to stop playing the games I currently play in favor of this one.

I played the beta a little bit. I may buy the full game just to play that free month.

First and foremost, it's not going to take me (or very many others) from WoW or TOR. It's just not unique enough to stand out on its own, and a small developer isn't going to be able to make the same combination of content quality and quantity that Blizzard has built itself up to do.

Despite that, the reason I may buy it for the free month is because your guildies are on to something. It's not bad at all. It feels like a prettier, more polished Warhammer (not surprising, since it uses the same engine). The level of fantasy gets kind of ridiculous (takes itself very seriously), but that's not really a bad thing, and the zones I played all had neat little flavor things going on, like a sprawling hamlet under attack.

The class system is exceptionally interesting, and also a big reason why I think the game is going to fail miserably. The closest I can think to describe what I experienced is like trying to play a tri-class in D&D. For all intents and purposes, you have three character classes at the same time. Each of those classes has a branching talent tree similar to WoW's, but larger. Each class also has skills/spells tied to it, which you earn by placing points in the talent tree. So like, after I put my first two points into the Reaver tree, I might unlock the second Reaver ability, let's say a Cleave. A few more points and I'll unlock the next ability, etc. I'm pretty sure the game has no class trainers and no need for them, since these skills are learned right then and there, and you're given talent points with every level up (but I dunno, maybe you need to train later on).

It's pretty sweet, I can see having a lot of fun playing around with it, but the system has two fundamental flaws: 1) it's intimidatingly convoluted and 2) it's impossible to balance against that amount of freedom. Number 1 doesn't mean much for you or me, but it means the game's success is always going to be limited, because the barrier of entry is just going to be too much for the casual gamers that really drive WoW's success. Limited success means limited funds means limited support, etc. Not saying they can't be successful (EVE is way more complex, and is arguably a huge hit), but it's already going to be an uphill battle.

And #2 is what kills me. Search the rift-specific wiki enough and you'll probably come across the quotes from the development team being classy and up front and saying that due to the level of freedom, it will definitely be possible to create a "dud" character build; a poor combination of classes and/or skills. PvE content balance is already difficult. Because it's not just about balancing a fight for a tank/healer/dps, it's balancing it for a group that inherently is going to be a subset of the classes available, and making sure that a warrior tank with a druid healer isn't always going to be better than a paladin tank with a priest healer, etc. This is part of why Blizzard has been revered for so long, years before WoW, because their RTS games were so well balanced while still keeping factions relatively unique. So I feel like the Rift devs - who are a small studio - are setting themselves up to fall into the Champions Online trap of the freedom being an illusion, and really there only being a handful of viable combinations out there. Because the only alternative is that they make a LOT of builds viable, and then what happens is the min/maxers discover the best ones (there are always best ones) and suddenly they breeze through all the content because that content was balanced so that shittier builds could also win.

So basically, I'm afraid that the coolest and most original aspect of their game will end up boiling down to being pretty much the same as WoW, just with a lot of convoluted trial and error to get there. Of course, I'm always pretty skeptical, so maybe they'll shatter expectations and pull off something that's never been done before.

Oh, and I didn't think the actual Rift mechanic was actually that great, but I'm definitely in the minority for that
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Re: Rift!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:03 am

Welp, I wasplaying again today and a massive invasion of the 10-20 area happened. At first it was fun, and I got a lot of xp defeating invaders, but then it dragged on, and on, and on, until eventually I just felt drained and didn't want to keep going. Don't think I could have really gone back to questing for a break, either, because there were invasion forces all over the map.
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Re: Rift!

Postby bldavis » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:36 pm

KysenMurrin wrote:Welp, I wasplaying again today and a massive invasion of the 10-20 area happened. At first it was fun, and I got a lot of xp defeating invaders, but then it dragged on, and on, and on, until eventually I just felt drained and didn't want to keep going. Don't think I could have really gone back to questing for a break, either, because there were invasion forces all over the map.

i got to teh point where i see a invasion happening and i just log out

i am about ready to say screw it, and uninstalling it
i personally think they are overdoing the rift/invasion mechanic
if they had a major incvasion like once every other day or every three days, ya it would be fun and would feel like we are acomplishing something, but now i logged in during one the other night, finally beat it back, took a bio, and when i got back to teh computer, the next invasion was happening... :shock:

said screw that, logged and went to bed
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Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPS
Amirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego.
Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.
Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!
Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.
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Re: Rift!

Postby Eltiana » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:05 pm

bldavis wrote:
KysenMurrin wrote:Welp, I wasplaying again today and a massive invasion of the 10-20 area happened. At first it was fun, and I got a lot of xp defeating invaders, but then it dragged on, and on, and on, until eventually I just felt drained and didn't want to keep going. Don't think I could have really gone back to questing for a break, either, because there were invasion forces all over the map.

i got to teh point where i see a invasion happening and i just log out

i am about ready to say screw it, and uninstalling it
i personally think they are overdoing the rift/invasion mechanic
if they had a major incvasion like once every other day or every three days, ya it would be fun and would feel like we are acomplishing something, but now i logged in during one the other night, finally beat it back, took a bio, and when i got back to teh computer, the next invasion was happening... :shock:

said screw that, logged and went to bed

Rifts/invasion spawns have been upped for the beta. It's also based on server/area population, which are overflowing due to the fact everyone and their mother is playing due to this beta being open.
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Re: Rift!

Postby PsiVen » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:27 am

You can actually quest during major invasions, only about 30% of your quests will be obscured directly by a Rift blocking every objective and you can join a public raid to squish it and go back about your business. I think this makes for a rather more engaging and social "solo-questing" experience.

But that's not really why this game isn't going to pull many people from WoW. It's similar in many respects to WoW Vanilla, in that it has VERY many elements in common with WoW, including most of the mistakes. There's not a whole lot of balance, polish, or endgame to speak of, which again sounds a whole lot like WoW, except that people have higher expectations now. Lessons were learned in WoW that people won't be happy to have to retread.

You may recall that there were at WoW's launch 9 different classes with 27 total talent trees. Rift has 4 classes with 32 total trees, which really isn't much more than WoW's talent system, but the more flexible system allows for a lot more subspecs beyond that. Not only is this overly ambitious and hard to balance, but it makes it almost impossible for the typical player to learn every build and how to deal with it, let alone prepare themselves against most of them. CoH had a solution for this with their system of combinable major/minor specs: years of refinement and imbalance aided by the complete lack of coherent endgame content and a community that was generally more interested in RPing an enjoyable character than min/maxing it. CoH also used highly stylized graphics and flashy powers that made it fairly obvious what 'style' someone was, while Rift uses muted pseudorealistic spell effects and doesn't even tell you what class the person you're targeting is (the color of their power bar tells you rogue, warrior, or cleric/mage).

The interface has huge quality-of-life issues that have been written off as fixable by addons post-release in whatever patch they get around to implementing an API. It's "customizable" in that you can move stuff around or scale it up to look awful, but nobody who enjoys a highly custom UI in WoW will be at home here. Forced high-latency-mode spell queuing, no nameplates or names anywhere, and lack of even basic selection circles under your target combine for a messy, hard-to-read combat scenario that makes tanking a nightmare. You also must use the 'cast on keypress instead of key release' feature because the latter is broken and forces you to hold down modifiers until the server registers the command.

Speaking of mistakes from Vanilla, there's already a weird offspec-hybrid tank spec poised to get shit on as the odd man out. It's called the Riftstalker and it's basically a tank spec for rogues so that dungeon groups will have more tanking options, but it's based on rogue mechanics, not the ones that drive the 4 warrior tanking souls. Getting up the 30% armor, 5% miss, 5% dodge/parry, 15% damage reduction buffs required to get on par with the "real" tanks take a full 5-combo-point finishing move each and which means a good 36 seconds to wind up -- in fact all of your finishers are dedicated to buffing you in this way, and last just long enough that you have to keep refreshing each. You also inherently have less HP, but receive 30% bonus healing.

Another big problem is that a huge segment of the Rift community seems to be people who quit WoW because they were disgusted with WotLK, and a large portion of newcomers will be people who quit WoW because they're disgusted with Cataclysm. The forums are already a cesspool full of people airing their common hatred of all things Warcraft and utterly violating any thread that dares mention it in a positive light. Every major missing feature suggested is shot down immediately with we don't want easymode / this isn't WoW / don't make us do math / why would we want to know information.

But I'm not going to continue ranting against a game where people are enjoying it, I just wanted to drop off my thoughts somewhere. I hope you guys have fun while it lasts.
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Re: Rift!

Postby Vanifae » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:23 am

I agree with PsiVen, hope people enjoy it though.
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Re: Rift!

Postby KysenMurrin » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:29 am

PsiVen wrote:The interface has huge quality-of-life issues that have been written off as fixable by addons post-release in whatever patch they get around to implementing an API. It's "customizable" in that you can move stuff around or scale it up to look awful, but nobody who enjoys a highly custom UI in WoW will be at home here. Forced high-latency-mode spell queuing, no nameplates or names anywhere, and lack of even basic selection circles under your target combine for a messy, hard-to-read combat scenario that makes tanking a nightmare. You also must use the 'cast on keypress instead of key release' feature because the latter is broken and forces you to hold down modifiers until the server registers the command.

I'm guessing you must have seen it in an earlier build - Names are there, and can be turned always on or only on mouseover/selection (and have the same options as wow for which characters show names); nameplates showing health/power/combo points pop up above heads automatically in combat (though unfortunately they're not the clickable kind, I don't think - maybe that's what you meant); and targetting circles are in now. I think you can change the settings on the spell queuing, but that might just be to make it queue even earlier.

The biggest issue I have with this kind of thing is that it's actually a pain to target something - it seems like if there are players and spell effects around a mob, you have to be lucky to click on the right spot at the right time. Not being able to select by clicking the nameplate makes it worse.
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