pew pew laser paladins in space [EVE]

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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Brekkie » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:24 pm

Ok, so I've always had a huge attraction to Eve, but never actually made the commitment to trying it out.
Been considering picking it up finally, since there's actually people I sort of know to play with.

A few questions:

I've seen a few trailers for the game, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxSyv4L ... r_embedded

The trailers depict fleet combat as being very strategic and gripping. How accurate is that really? One of the big reasons I never actually tried the game was because I had a lot of people tell me that PvP was a huge let down. According to them it was simply giant clusterfrolicks where you have no idea what is even going on, swamped by massive waves of lag. Has that been your experience?
This is important to me, because combat would be the main reason I would play the game. While economics and character advancement can be fun, as can piracy, the primary reason I would want to play eve would be to make total, bloody, unmerciful war and set the galaxy aflame. If the combat puts you at the mercy of meta-game factors beyond your control like frequent lag, or doesn't provide much room for real battle-field tactical brilliance, it probably wont be the game for me.

Secondly, can you tell me a little bit more in depth about the different types of combat-centric ships, and their roles within a fleet? A general sense of how long it would take to be able to acquire and gain the skill to use each would be useful information as well. (My very vague understanding is that you have Capital Ships, which are obviously your heavy hitters, supporting battleships and battlecruisers to flesh out a fleet, along with support-role small craft that do things like interfere with enemy systems or prevent them from escaping.)

p.s. Can corporations effectively hold territory? Can, for example, a Gallente battle fleet seize an area of Amarr space? Can you rule an empire, or are territories the unchanging, immutable province of NPC affiliations?
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Shamora » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:11 pm

Brekkie wrote:I've seen a few trailers for the game, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxSyv4L ... r_embedded

The trailers depict fleet combat as being very strategic and gripping. How accurate is that really? One of the big reasons I never actually tried the game was because I had a lot of people tell me that PvP was a huge let down. According to them it was simply giant clusterfrolicks where you have no idea what is even going on, swamped by massive waves of lag. Has that been your experience?
This is important to me, because combat would be the main reason I would play the game. While economics and character advancement can be fun, as can piracy, the primary reason I would want to play eve would be to make total, bloody, unmerciful war and set the galaxy aflame. If the combat puts you at the mercy of meta-game factors beyond your control like frequent lag, or doesn't provide much room for real battle-field tactical brilliance, it probably wont be the game for me.

Secondly, can you tell me a little bit more in depth about the different types of combat-centric ships, and their roles within a fleet? A general sense of how long it would take to be able to acquire and gain the skill to use each would be useful information as well. (My very vague understanding is that you have Capital Ships, which are obviously your heavy hitters, supporting battleships and battlecruisers to flesh out a fleet, along with support-role small craft that do things like interfere with enemy systems or prevent them from escaping.)

p.s. Can corporations effectively hold territory? Can, for example, a Gallente battle fleet seize an area of Amarr space? Can you rule an empire, or are territories the unchanging, immutable province of NPC affiliations?


I never got into much fleet combat and certainly no large fleet vs fleet stuff so I can't really answer your first two questions. I do know that from that trailer it does all sound like a situation and tactics that could actually occur in game. In the past the massive fleet battles use to get very laggy, but CCP works endlessly to reduce or eliminate it so I have no idea what it is like these days. I do know that if you are planning to send a massive fleet into a system to attack someone you can send a report to CCP and they will allocate more server resources to that system.

As for the PS, there is Empire space which is what the NPCs own which I believe is all of non 0.0 sec space then there is the 0.0 sec space that player corps own. See this very outdated political map for example. http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/Latest.jpg
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:21 am

Brekkie, as for gripping and tactical vs massive clusterfuck, I'd say probably a bit of both. If you look around on YouTube, you can find some good examples of both types of fights. Like Shamora, I have yet to experience massive cap ship fleet combat myself, but have done a fair bit of smaller fleet engagement. It's a lot of fun, and there's a good amount of strategy behind it. I've seen massive cap battles that can turn into a pretty clusterfucky situation, but haven't really seen lagspikes be an issue. Again, tho, that in particular is something I don't have any firsthand experience in yet.

As for ship roles, you have the basic idea. I'm bored, so I'll go ahead and do a quickish list of the different combat ship types, along with the time it takes to fly the ship's basic hull. As you get further down the list, "basic hull" training will not be enough for you to fly a ship effectively; only to fly it. Larger ships require more core and support skills before they are viable to fly. A Battleship, for example, can't really be flown effectively without at least a couple-few months of training in the core and support skills. Training times are for a new pilot with no implants or neural remaps, both of which can speed up training times. Also, these times are for ships of your chosen faction. Ships of a different faction will take an additional hour and a half to train up to the basic "starter frigate" level you get with your race.

Tech I ships:
Tech I ships are by far the most common sight in EVE. Relatively cheap and quick to train, they provide a pilot many pvp options at little cost to your wallet. Many Tech I ships have "Navy Issue" variants, which are basically upgraded versions with more firepower and durability. Navy Issue ships require little or no extra training compared to their Tech I brethren, but are generally about four times the cost. Also note that some tech I ships are considered more advanced than others, and require additional training.
Frigate - small quick starter ship, can still be effective in pvp since it's hard for large ships to lock onto them up close. Training: No time for starter frigates, 7 hours for advanced ones.
Destroyer - more guns, still quick; larger and easier to hit. Training: 7 hours.
Cruiser - medium sized ship, versitile ships that fulfill large variety of medium-range roles. Massive number of Tech II variants. Training: 2 days for entry-level, ~3 days for advanced.
Battlecruiser - medium sized ship, big brothers of cruisers. Very common in PVP, can fulfill a large variety of roles. Training: ~4 days. Effective training: 2-3+ weeks.
Battleship - largest sub-capital combat ships; largest combat ships allowed in highsec. Very powerful ships in pve and pvp, with their navy issue variants being capable of ridiculous dps. can be susceptible to attacks by small frigate fleets, as their massive guns are slower to track. Training: ~8 days for entry-level, ~9 days for advanced. Effective training: 2-3+ months.

Tech II (and Tech III) ships:
While Tech I ships provide the basic warhorse backbone of fleets, Tech II ships provide more specialized roles. These ships require a lot more training to get into, but are a lot of fun. There are a lot different types of Tech II ships, so I won't go into too much detail here; however, you can find out more info on the various Tech II ships here.
Frigates (training: ~23 days):
Interceptor - Very very fast attack ship.
Electronic Attack Ship - Bonuses to electronic warfare; energy draining, jamming, webs, etc.
Assault Ship - Beefed up frigates with more dps and durability. Basically frigate sized cruisers.
Covert Ops - Cloaking ships meant the specialize in scanning, probing and cynos*.
Stealth Bomber - Cloaking glass cannons that specialize in torpedoes and cynos.
Destroyers (training: ~40 days):
Interdictor - Destroyers that can use Interdiction Sphere Launchers, or "bubbles." These yank people out of warp and prevent them from warping off.
Cruisers:
Heavy Assault Ship (HAC): Cruisers on steroids; beefed up firepower and durability. Training: ~65 days.
Logistics: "Healer" ships that regen shields, repair armor and recharge capacitors on other ships. Training: ~49 days.
Heavy Interdictors: Ships capable of mounting a Warp Disruption Field Generator, which basically stops any ship within 20k from using their warp drive. These ships are also the only ones capable of warp jamming a Supercarrier or Titan in 0.0 space. Hope you like being the primary target! Training: ~67 days.
Force Recon Ship: Cloak ships that specialize in scouting, and cyno deployment. Training: ~59 days.
Combat Recon Ship: Powerful electronic warfare ships. Training: ~59 days.
Strategic Cruiser (Tech III): Special ships that you build from different components, creating visually and statistically unique ships to fulfill the role you want. There is 1 cruiser hull per race, 5 subsystems per cruiser, and each subsystem has 5 different available modules. Thus, there are 500 different strategic cruiser variants available in the game. For a cruiser, these are pretty expensive to build. (400 million+ isk each.) Training: ~61 days.
Battlecruisers (training: ~110 days):
Field Command Ships: Powerful beefed-up battlecruisers on steroids. Can also buff fleets by using a Warfare Link module.
Fleet Command Ships: Specialize in buffing fleets; the only non-cap ship capable of using multiple Warfare Link modules at once. Also known for having the strongest sub-cap tank. (Read: they're really fucking hard to kill. A ship's "tank" refers to its ability to negate damage.)
Battleships:
Black Ops Ships: Cloaking ships that are pretty much the sneakiest things in the game. They can jump to covert cynos as well as through gates, they're the only ship capable of locating enemy covert cynos, and they can even create short portals to other systems for their fleets. Training: ~124 days.
Maurader: Special slightly-buffed version of battleships that give you extra room to have utility equipment, such as salvagers and tractor beams, simultaneously equipped with your regular weapons. These ships aren't overly common in pvp, they're meant as more "ultimate solo pve" ships. Training: ~119 days.

Cap ships:
These behemoths dominate nullsec and require massive amounts of training. They must all be built by players at stations. I have zero experience flying them and effective training values are estimates that are probably on the low end of the scale.
Dreadnought - Huge battleships with siege weaponry meant to take down player stations. Training: 107 days. Effective training: 1+ year. Build time: ~2 weeks.
Carrier - Able to command large fleets of drones and fighters while providing logistics support (read: healing). Fighters and Fighter-Bombers are exclusive to carriers, no other ships can use them. Training: 145 days. Effective training: 1+ year. Build time: ~2 weeks.
Supercarrier - Massively ramped up carriers with considerably more power. Second largest ship in the game. Training: 148 days. Effective training: 1+ year. Build time: 3-4 weeks.
Titan - Largest ship in the game. Can fit doomsday weapons and create portals between systems. Training: 196 days. Effective training: 1.5+ years. Build time: ~1 month.


And finally, as Sham said, to your PS - both. Highsec (1.0-0.5, the central systems, "Empire Space") is NPC owned, lowsec (0.4-0.1) is kinda no-man's land, anyone can put up player owned stations in them but no one really "owns" the systems, and nullsec (0.0) is all owned and run by player corps. Also of note, cap ships can only be found in lowsec and nullsec. They're too large to use jump gates, so they have their own special jump drive system. *It requires another player to open a cyno in the destination system, which the cap ship then locks onto and jumps to. Cynos are not usable in Empire space, and cap ships must be built at player owned shipyards in non-Empire space. The largest cap ships, Titans, have a unique jump drive that allows them to take their whole fleet with them, effectively dropping into a system with a massive fleet whereever you want, as long as the cyno ship doesn't get gibbed. Of course, things don't always go as planned... it is rumored that "jump (just you)" and "jump bridge (portal for your fleet)" are right next to each other and can be mis-clicked.... (original)

jesus that post got a bit longer than I expected
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Arnock » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:51 am

When you list 'training time,' is that actual time /played? Or time since account activation?

Also, are you able to own multiple ships at a time?
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:56 am

You can own as many ships as you like, you're not limited to one at a time. Ships you're not currently flying stay docked at the station where you left them.

All training in EVE takes place in real time, so if by /played you mean "online and playing" a la WoW, no. The time I listed is the time it takes to train the skills to fly the particular ships; whether you spend that time online or offline makes no difference. Those training times can be sped up via augmentations which you can buy. I just recently got a set of +4 implants, which reduce my training times by about 20% vs a brand new pilot. So, for example, training up Command Ships from scratch would take me 88 days instead of 110. Something else to keep in mind is that a lot of the Tech II ships have many core skills as part of their training requirements, which will be stuff that you're training for anyway.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Tandors » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:38 pm

You can also remapped your attributes to speed things up even faster but it comes at a severe penalty. After you use the first two remaps your character starts with, you don't get another one for a full year. I've seen some people recommend that new players remap so that they have equal Perception and Intelligence so they can get the core skills as fast as possible. After that, its either go perception/willpower for weapon and ship skills or intelligence/memory for support skills. If you do remap, make sure to get everything you think you will need before you re-remap. I went and remapped to Perception/Willpower way too early and now I have to train up a lot of skills at the slowest possible speeds because they aren't guns or ships.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:02 pm

Yeah, I've remapped for full Int/Perception to minimize training time, works out nicely. My attributes:

Intelligence: 28 (24+4)
Perception: 28 (24+4)
Charisma: 20 (17+3)
Willpower: 21 (17+4)
Memory: 21 (17+4)
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:46 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfv1QtZDirY
Lots of EVE speak, but really amazingly well done video.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Delphineas » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:30 am

Invisusira wrote:What do you mean? I've never had problem deploying drones in combat.


Deploy drones before combat = Will return fire if you have them set to.

Deploy drones after getting shot at= will just sit there. Getting jammed and need drones to kill it for you? Nope, you're fucked unless you can get a lock AND an attack order in before getting jammed again
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:37 am

Ah. I've always manually ordered drones around anyway. That's a pretty specific instance, and one I'm not entirely sure would end up killing the guy anyway.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby alayire » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:28 am

small scale warfare can be fun and can be done in any ship available. small frigates are always welcomed as tacklers so even newbie chars can join. all it takes is joining a corp that does this kind of stuff and joining their packs. Just be prepared to lose your ship often - don't sweat it however, these are dirt cheap and most corps even provide them for free. the real danger is not getting podded because then you need to replace your clone and after a while it can get expensive.

large fleet engagements however are a different beast. I can't speak for current state of affairs since I haven't played in such a long time, but I doubt it has changed much (all though core mechanics have changed).

Large fleet engagements are usually between large alliances of corporations. this is because more = better. not that a large corporation can't field enough numbers for a fleet battle, but usually fleet battles happen for economic or expansionist reasons and as such, alliances interests are at play.
so: reasons for engagements are usually territory(economic reasons are derived from territory). I know that territory domination/ownership mechanics have changed, but from what i remember/heard it's still based around some type of Player Owned Structure. these are Huge structures with loads of HP and Shield HP points. Dreadnoughts were introduced basically to take down POS shields(they can battle each other and in some way smaller targets but nontheless this is their main role). the basic idea is, get your dreads in, put them in siege mode, take down POS (in a nutshell, but it's much more complicated, depending on what type of POS are we talking about). Dreads aren't invincible, so you naturally want to protect them from harm. the best way to do that is to deny the enemy access to them(this was called locking down the system). here is where the numbers come in play, because you have to guard multiple entry points , find and take down cyno's etc etc. taking down POS is not something that is easy and fast, back when I played it took up to several days to get the job done and large BattleShip engagements could happen sporadically every day.

the thing is, your role in these battles is usually very small, unless you are in a leading position. and you won't for a long time(that is because intelligence espionage and sabotage is a very very serious business in EVE - not kidding). so most of the time, you will be told only what you need to and nothing else. you have to obey orders from your commanders/leaders etc and you will have little to say. usually each fleet has at the moust 2-3 people that decide what that fleet does(where it goes, when it moves, where it warps too, who they engage, if they engage, when exactly they retreat etc etc) and the rest of the persons in the fleet just obey orders.
there are other aspects in a fleet fight, like scouting and logistics- but these take very skilled and experienced players to be effective. also scouting is usually done only by thrustworthy people and again, it's not something that can be done overnight. to understand why this is a serious issue: imagine if a scout gives you bad information on purpose and you warp your fleet into a trap. or even worse, he's giving you useless but accurate information, but in the mean time he's giving info about your fleet to the enemy.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:06 am

Had a lot of fun yesterday, went on my first nullsec roam with the alliance. We did it in mostly Threshers with a couple Blackbirds and a stealth bomber, about 10-15 of us. Hunted stuff down for a couple hours, had a couple good kills and a couple hectic ackbar.jpg moments where someone baited us and then proceeded to hot drop on us with a bubble (bubbles prevent you from warping off). The second time, it was a fleet of about 20 T2 cruisers, and we lost a good number of destroyers so we had to call it. Was a lot of fun though!

Following orders is definitely the name of the game in EVE PvP. And, unlike WoW, people expect this and actually do. (Or they get kicked from the fleet.) Kind of refreshing to be doing PvP where following orders on all sides is not only expected, it's required.

After getting back from the roam, Dapaladin had just finished training up for his logistics cruiser and wanted to try it out, so we ran L3 for a couple hours. Having him follow me around and constantly repair my shields and armor definitely put a whole new level of lol to the ease of which these missions were completed!
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Tev » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:58 am

I'm gonna have to join you next time, I should have gone with ya but I barely have my ship equiped, I need to get more training to reduce CPU load so I can add my second launcher.

I just started getting into the whole scanning thing, I think I'm gonna have to give that a shot to find some good mining locations and see if I can make a little extra cash selling ore (now that I have a ship with a decent cargo hold).
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby sahiel » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:33 pm

My will to resist is gone, Sahi El now exists ingame >.<
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Xenix » Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:13 pm

Played a trial of this a few years back - I wonder if the update player graphics changed my amazing portrait any.

If someone's bored, check out "The Albatross" (yeah, you can use "The" for a first name), and see if he still looks like he knows something you're about to know. :D (and post a pic so I can take a look)
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