pew pew laser paladins in space [EVE]

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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:13 pm

I updated the OP with a bunch of new useful information about core skills and a bunch of pictures of Nyanmaller (which is important), go look.

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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Levantine » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:32 am

Shit son, I'm going to need all 21 days to get through this learning curve. D:
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby alayire » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:26 am

Actuall I enjoy guns. Just look at weapon the info and note the range. Starter guns have low range, like 500m for a civilian weapon and 1000m for a basic electron gun 1. Some weapons have ranged more like 6000m. Just note the range falloff and don't activate the gun till you are clsoe. There is an option to try and maintain range at 500m, although this works best if your ship has better speed/agility than your opponent. Also don't run out of ammo, reload in dock or keep spares in your cargo hold :)
As I have mentioned gunnery and guns in general are much more fun.
however for people that just start out it's a world of pain when you do advance a bit. let me illustrate:
any gun system has 2 subtypes:
- a short(er) range, fast firing, fast tracking, more damage overall subsystem(pulse for ammar laser, auto cannons for minmatar and blasters for gallente hybrids).
- a long range, slower rate of fire, slower tracking, less overall damage subsystem(beam, arty and rails).

ok so if you look at them you'd normally be thinking .. why on earth would anyone pick long range??? less damage and less tracking. 2 solid reasons:
-for one, you want to be at a safe distance from your enemies, not too far off so you don't have to travel for hours in case you want to loot the wrecks or even shoot the npc's, but at the same time not too close so they don't swarm you. also (and this is quite important) most missions have multiple rooms with multiple packs of enemies. the idea is to usually engage one pack at a time or atleast limit the number of npc's firing at you because trust me .. having all enemies in a room firing at you is a bad idea.
- and second: npc also have this short range long range classification. this means short range npc's deal more damage(bruisers). starting from afar and killing them before they get to you or at least diminishing their numbers is what you should be aiming for. but wait there is more, the ranged npc's usually like to keep their optimal distance as well, witch usually is higher then your optimal distance(if you are fitted with short range) so that usually translates into them spreading out and you constantly chasing them. this can lead into hazardous situations with them pulling you into more npcs then you can handle(worst case) but most annoying would be spending lots of time wasted chasing them down without dealing damage(hence less overall damage).

edit: I wrote this starting from something the totally forgot my point. starting with harder lvl2 missions and continuing from there on, long range weapons become a necessity because of the tank aspects. however long range guns have big to insurmountable issues in dealing with targets that get too close. it takes mission experience and info in learning how to deal with this, also practice and good understanding of gunnery shooting mechanics.

and this is just the tip of the iceberg. you won't get to see these refinements in mission play until you get to cruiser level, but they are there.
I can make a more detailed post about missiles if you like, just to gouge the differences.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby RedAces » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:21 am

Always remember, if you're facing a fair fight in EVE, you did something horribly wrong !
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby cakeftw » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:02 am

So im back on eve now in my spare time, you'll see me in the maintankadin channel as lunstra, ive got quite a decent level of ship, so hit me up if you've got any questions about the caldari and i'll do my best to answer, or if you need a hand on a tough mission i'll come help if im not too busy
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:22 am

Resistance is futile. - John Sheridan
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby cakeftw » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:18 am

Fuck my memory and fuck ships that can warp scram >.>
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:45 am

That does not sound like a good time, what happened?

Here, have a battleship ramming afk miners set to Jaws music to lighten your mood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHdMHuUH ... age#t=499s
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby cakeftw » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:46 am

I sort of forgot to restock on missiles, so i ran out halfway through a mission, with ONE fucking warp scramming frigate on me and one webber, my 1billion isk tengu slowly died and though i can afford to replace it, i just cannot be arsed :(
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:26 pm

Ouch. I had the EXACT same thing happen to me, but with a far, far less valuable setup than a 1b T3 cruiser. That sucks, man.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby crazyharry » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:21 am

cakeftw wrote:I sort of forgot to restock on missiles, so i ran out halfway through a mission, with ONE fucking warp scramming frigate on me and one webber, my 1billion isk tengu slowly died and though i can afford to replace it, i just cannot be arsed :(


Hopefully they have fixed it by now but last time I quit EVE they had just changed the jamming mechanics and accepting a Guristas mission was practically a guaranteed ship loss. I was flying a ship I couldn't afford to lose when I found this out.

Great game overall, I just dont like the way that no matter what I do, I will never catch up with the people who started before me. A bit silly as I have taken out older players while YAAARing in a rifter with 24hrs relevant training, but it just bugs me.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:46 pm

Honestly, that's part of the point that appeals to me. The fact that I'm a noob, and no matter what I do, yeah; at some point I'll be competitive with the veterans with SOME stufff. But with everything? No. There will always be something that the players that have been around longer than me will be better at.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Delphineas » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:55 pm

i was in a pvp training corp, alliance was BS or STAY HOME.

2 months in, lost 1st raven in a fucking level 3, didn't notice the scramer, kept getting jammed.
They need to tweak drones. The bullshit of having them do nothing unless they are deployed BEFORE you start getting shot is jut stupid.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:41 am

What do you mean? I've never had problem deploying drones in combat.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Tandors » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:03 am

Scramblers are really stupid but I still like them. They add some risk to doing missions. Without them its just warp in, blow up some stuff, warp out, heal up, and repeat. Jammers on the other hand are the most retarded thing ever. I was doing a mission where I just had 3 cruisers left and I was in a t3 cruiser. It took 45 minutes to complete something that should have taken 5.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Brekkie » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:24 pm

Ok, so I've always had a huge attraction to Eve, but never actually made the commitment to trying it out.
Been considering picking it up finally, since there's actually people I sort of know to play with.

A few questions:

I've seen a few trailers for the game, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxSyv4L ... r_embedded

The trailers depict fleet combat as being very strategic and gripping. How accurate is that really? One of the big reasons I never actually tried the game was because I had a lot of people tell me that PvP was a huge let down. According to them it was simply giant clusterfrolicks where you have no idea what is even going on, swamped by massive waves of lag. Has that been your experience?
This is important to me, because combat would be the main reason I would play the game. While economics and character advancement can be fun, as can piracy, the primary reason I would want to play eve would be to make total, bloody, unmerciful war and set the galaxy aflame. If the combat puts you at the mercy of meta-game factors beyond your control like frequent lag, or doesn't provide much room for real battle-field tactical brilliance, it probably wont be the game for me.

Secondly, can you tell me a little bit more in depth about the different types of combat-centric ships, and their roles within a fleet? A general sense of how long it would take to be able to acquire and gain the skill to use each would be useful information as well. (My very vague understanding is that you have Capital Ships, which are obviously your heavy hitters, supporting battleships and battlecruisers to flesh out a fleet, along with support-role small craft that do things like interfere with enemy systems or prevent them from escaping.)

p.s. Can corporations effectively hold territory? Can, for example, a Gallente battle fleet seize an area of Amarr space? Can you rule an empire, or are territories the unchanging, immutable province of NPC affiliations?
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Shamora » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:11 pm

Brekkie wrote:I've seen a few trailers for the game, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxSyv4L ... r_embedded

The trailers depict fleet combat as being very strategic and gripping. How accurate is that really? One of the big reasons I never actually tried the game was because I had a lot of people tell me that PvP was a huge let down. According to them it was simply giant clusterfrolicks where you have no idea what is even going on, swamped by massive waves of lag. Has that been your experience?
This is important to me, because combat would be the main reason I would play the game. While economics and character advancement can be fun, as can piracy, the primary reason I would want to play eve would be to make total, bloody, unmerciful war and set the galaxy aflame. If the combat puts you at the mercy of meta-game factors beyond your control like frequent lag, or doesn't provide much room for real battle-field tactical brilliance, it probably wont be the game for me.

Secondly, can you tell me a little bit more in depth about the different types of combat-centric ships, and their roles within a fleet? A general sense of how long it would take to be able to acquire and gain the skill to use each would be useful information as well. (My very vague understanding is that you have Capital Ships, which are obviously your heavy hitters, supporting battleships and battlecruisers to flesh out a fleet, along with support-role small craft that do things like interfere with enemy systems or prevent them from escaping.)

p.s. Can corporations effectively hold territory? Can, for example, a Gallente battle fleet seize an area of Amarr space? Can you rule an empire, or are territories the unchanging, immutable province of NPC affiliations?


I never got into much fleet combat and certainly no large fleet vs fleet stuff so I can't really answer your first two questions. I do know that from that trailer it does all sound like a situation and tactics that could actually occur in game. In the past the massive fleet battles use to get very laggy, but CCP works endlessly to reduce or eliminate it so I have no idea what it is like these days. I do know that if you are planning to send a massive fleet into a system to attack someone you can send a report to CCP and they will allocate more server resources to that system.

As for the PS, there is Empire space which is what the NPCs own which I believe is all of non 0.0 sec space then there is the 0.0 sec space that player corps own. See this very outdated political map for example. http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/Latest.jpg
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:21 am

Brekkie, as for gripping and tactical vs massive clusterfuck, I'd say probably a bit of both. If you look around on YouTube, you can find some good examples of both types of fights. Like Shamora, I have yet to experience massive cap ship fleet combat myself, but have done a fair bit of smaller fleet engagement. It's a lot of fun, and there's a good amount of strategy behind it. I've seen massive cap battles that can turn into a pretty clusterfucky situation, but haven't really seen lagspikes be an issue. Again, tho, that in particular is something I don't have any firsthand experience in yet.

As for ship roles, you have the basic idea. I'm bored, so I'll go ahead and do a quickish list of the different combat ship types, along with the time it takes to fly the ship's basic hull. As you get further down the list, "basic hull" training will not be enough for you to fly a ship effectively; only to fly it. Larger ships require more core and support skills before they are viable to fly. A Battleship, for example, can't really be flown effectively without at least a couple-few months of training in the core and support skills. Training times are for a new pilot with no implants or neural remaps, both of which can speed up training times. Also, these times are for ships of your chosen faction. Ships of a different faction will take an additional hour and a half to train up to the basic "starter frigate" level you get with your race.

Tech I ships:
Tech I ships are by far the most common sight in EVE. Relatively cheap and quick to train, they provide a pilot many pvp options at little cost to your wallet. Many Tech I ships have "Navy Issue" variants, which are basically upgraded versions with more firepower and durability. Navy Issue ships require little or no extra training compared to their Tech I brethren, but are generally about four times the cost. Also note that some tech I ships are considered more advanced than others, and require additional training.
Frigate - small quick starter ship, can still be effective in pvp since it's hard for large ships to lock onto them up close. Training: No time for starter frigates, 7 hours for advanced ones.
Destroyer - more guns, still quick; larger and easier to hit. Training: 7 hours.
Cruiser - medium sized ship, versitile ships that fulfill large variety of medium-range roles. Massive number of Tech II variants. Training: 2 days for entry-level, ~3 days for advanced.
Battlecruiser - medium sized ship, big brothers of cruisers. Very common in PVP, can fulfill a large variety of roles. Training: ~4 days. Effective training: 2-3+ weeks.
Battleship - largest sub-capital combat ships; largest combat ships allowed in highsec. Very powerful ships in pve and pvp, with their navy issue variants being capable of ridiculous dps. can be susceptible to attacks by small frigate fleets, as their massive guns are slower to track. Training: ~8 days for entry-level, ~9 days for advanced. Effective training: 2-3+ months.

Tech II (and Tech III) ships:
While Tech I ships provide the basic warhorse backbone of fleets, Tech II ships provide more specialized roles. These ships require a lot more training to get into, but are a lot of fun. There are a lot different types of Tech II ships, so I won't go into too much detail here; however, you can find out more info on the various Tech II ships here.
Frigates (training: ~23 days):
Interceptor - Very very fast attack ship.
Electronic Attack Ship - Bonuses to electronic warfare; energy draining, jamming, webs, etc.
Assault Ship - Beefed up frigates with more dps and durability. Basically frigate sized cruisers.
Covert Ops - Cloaking ships meant the specialize in scanning, probing and cynos*.
Stealth Bomber - Cloaking glass cannons that specialize in torpedoes and cynos.
Destroyers (training: ~40 days):
Interdictor - Destroyers that can use Interdiction Sphere Launchers, or "bubbles." These yank people out of warp and prevent them from warping off.
Cruisers:
Heavy Assault Ship (HAC): Cruisers on steroids; beefed up firepower and durability. Training: ~65 days.
Logistics: "Healer" ships that regen shields, repair armor and recharge capacitors on other ships. Training: ~49 days.
Heavy Interdictors: Ships capable of mounting a Warp Disruption Field Generator, which basically stops any ship within 20k from using their warp drive. These ships are also the only ones capable of warp jamming a Supercarrier or Titan in 0.0 space. Hope you like being the primary target! Training: ~67 days.
Force Recon Ship: Cloak ships that specialize in scouting, and cyno deployment. Training: ~59 days.
Combat Recon Ship: Powerful electronic warfare ships. Training: ~59 days.
Strategic Cruiser (Tech III): Special ships that you build from different components, creating visually and statistically unique ships to fulfill the role you want. There is 1 cruiser hull per race, 5 subsystems per cruiser, and each subsystem has 5 different available modules. Thus, there are 500 different strategic cruiser variants available in the game. For a cruiser, these are pretty expensive to build. (400 million+ isk each.) Training: ~61 days.
Battlecruisers (training: ~110 days):
Field Command Ships: Powerful beefed-up battlecruisers on steroids. Can also buff fleets by using a Warfare Link module.
Fleet Command Ships: Specialize in buffing fleets; the only non-cap ship capable of using multiple Warfare Link modules at once. Also known for having the strongest sub-cap tank. (Read: they're really fucking hard to kill. A ship's "tank" refers to its ability to negate damage.)
Battleships:
Black Ops Ships: Cloaking ships that are pretty much the sneakiest things in the game. They can jump to covert cynos as well as through gates, they're the only ship capable of locating enemy covert cynos, and they can even create short portals to other systems for their fleets. Training: ~124 days.
Maurader: Special slightly-buffed version of battleships that give you extra room to have utility equipment, such as salvagers and tractor beams, simultaneously equipped with your regular weapons. These ships aren't overly common in pvp, they're meant as more "ultimate solo pve" ships. Training: ~119 days.

Cap ships:
These behemoths dominate nullsec and require massive amounts of training. They must all be built by players at stations. I have zero experience flying them and effective training values are estimates that are probably on the low end of the scale.
Dreadnought - Huge battleships with siege weaponry meant to take down player stations. Training: 107 days. Effective training: 1+ year. Build time: ~2 weeks.
Carrier - Able to command large fleets of drones and fighters while providing logistics support (read: healing). Fighters and Fighter-Bombers are exclusive to carriers, no other ships can use them. Training: 145 days. Effective training: 1+ year. Build time: ~2 weeks.
Supercarrier - Massively ramped up carriers with considerably more power. Second largest ship in the game. Training: 148 days. Effective training: 1+ year. Build time: 3-4 weeks.
Titan - Largest ship in the game. Can fit doomsday weapons and create portals between systems. Training: 196 days. Effective training: 1.5+ years. Build time: ~1 month.


And finally, as Sham said, to your PS - both. Highsec (1.0-0.5, the central systems, "Empire Space") is NPC owned, lowsec (0.4-0.1) is kinda no-man's land, anyone can put up player owned stations in them but no one really "owns" the systems, and nullsec (0.0) is all owned and run by player corps. Also of note, cap ships can only be found in lowsec and nullsec. They're too large to use jump gates, so they have their own special jump drive system. *It requires another player to open a cyno in the destination system, which the cap ship then locks onto and jumps to. Cynos are not usable in Empire space, and cap ships must be built at player owned shipyards in non-Empire space. The largest cap ships, Titans, have a unique jump drive that allows them to take their whole fleet with them, effectively dropping into a system with a massive fleet whereever you want, as long as the cyno ship doesn't get gibbed. Of course, things don't always go as planned... it is rumored that "jump (just you)" and "jump bridge (portal for your fleet)" are right next to each other and can be mis-clicked.... (original)

jesus that post got a bit longer than I expected
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Arnock » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:51 am

When you list 'training time,' is that actual time /played? Or time since account activation?

Also, are you able to own multiple ships at a time?
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:56 am

You can own as many ships as you like, you're not limited to one at a time. Ships you're not currently flying stay docked at the station where you left them.

All training in EVE takes place in real time, so if by /played you mean "online and playing" a la WoW, no. The time I listed is the time it takes to train the skills to fly the particular ships; whether you spend that time online or offline makes no difference. Those training times can be sped up via augmentations which you can buy. I just recently got a set of +4 implants, which reduce my training times by about 20% vs a brand new pilot. So, for example, training up Command Ships from scratch would take me 88 days instead of 110. Something else to keep in mind is that a lot of the Tech II ships have many core skills as part of their training requirements, which will be stuff that you're training for anyway.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Tandors » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:38 pm

You can also remapped your attributes to speed things up even faster but it comes at a severe penalty. After you use the first two remaps your character starts with, you don't get another one for a full year. I've seen some people recommend that new players remap so that they have equal Perception and Intelligence so they can get the core skills as fast as possible. After that, its either go perception/willpower for weapon and ship skills or intelligence/memory for support skills. If you do remap, make sure to get everything you think you will need before you re-remap. I went and remapped to Perception/Willpower way too early and now I have to train up a lot of skills at the slowest possible speeds because they aren't guns or ships.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:02 pm

Yeah, I've remapped for full Int/Perception to minimize training time, works out nicely. My attributes:

Intelligence: 28 (24+4)
Perception: 28 (24+4)
Charisma: 20 (17+3)
Willpower: 21 (17+4)
Memory: 21 (17+4)
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:46 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vfv1QtZDirY
Lots of EVE speak, but really amazingly well done video.
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Delphineas » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:30 am

Invisusira wrote:What do you mean? I've never had problem deploying drones in combat.


Deploy drones before combat = Will return fire if you have them set to.

Deploy drones after getting shot at= will just sit there. Getting jammed and need drones to kill it for you? Nope, you're fucked unless you can get a lock AND an attack order in before getting jammed again
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Re: pew pew laser paladins in space

Postby Invisusira » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:37 am

Ah. I've always manually ordered drones around anyway. That's a pretty specific instance, and one I'm not entirely sure would end up killing the guy anyway.
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