League of Legends

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Hayz » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:37 pm

I've seen one or two people that have gotten good at him, probably the people at higher skill levels smurfing a new hero or the ones who have played similar and have gotten a good feel for him over a few games.

One of the most hybrid characters I've played (well) was akali, usually starting longsword to activate half the passive, then if needed for laning survival going for a phage, ninja tabi, sheen for other half of passive, zeal or just straight to trinity force, then a rageblade for tower killing. It is a great feeling as an assassin character to pop out and annihilate that character that is sitting smugly nuking minions or shadow dance chase that running carry that thinks they're going to get away. Especially when they hide behind towers and keep running and you just shadow dance completely past the tower to drop them then jungle out. Hopefully I can get a similar grasp with shaco. Teemo is incredibly fun, poison poison blind poison then run like hell and kite them through mushrooms. Also very fun to come in from behind, drop mushrooms, then chase them right into the mushroom for the delayed kill. I had a game where i had 3 champs drop dead after they gang ganked me because they went to walk back and tripped 3 mushrooms in a cluster, one after another.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Arnock » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:15 pm

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sadly enough, my best game yet.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Arnock » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:00 pm

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much more typical
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Hayz » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:02 pm

Not a bad game, it wasnt a huge gankfest on either side, you killed 5, had 4 assists, that means you did fairly well, you werent feeding, unlike the guy in chat going "sup. I died a lot, lol. kbye" honestly Ive had very good games where i went 8/3/9 and it wasnt a detrement that i wasnt at 20+, to quote condon in his guide "Its not about killing the enemy team, its about blowing up that gigantic glowing thing called a ******* NEXUS!" condon is hilarious to read, he knows his stuff and is a sarcastic jerk, i think its funny anyway.

As for the second, it takes a bit of time to find what type of char you're best with, for me its assassins, try a variety of different types and see what you enjoy and do well with. Just MHO.
Deathknights are whores! They're cheap, easy, and spread diseases.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Levantine » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:18 pm

From what I've seen Sivir requires a unique playstyle too.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Arnock » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:50 pm

Hayz wrote:Not a bad game, it wasnt a huge gankfest on either side, you killed 5, had 4 assists, that means you did fairly well, you werent feeding, unlike the guy in chat going "sup. I died a lot, lol. kbye" honestly Ive had very good games where i went 8/3/9 and it wasnt a detrement that i wasnt at 20+, to quote condon in his guide "Its not about killing the enemy team, its about blowing up that gigantic glowing thing called a ******* NEXUS!" condon is hilarious to read, he knows his stuff and is a sarcastic jerk, i think its funny anyway.

As for the second, it takes a bit of time to find what type of char you're best with, for me its assassins, try a variety of different types and see what you enjoy and do well with. Just MHO.



unfortunately my games tend to trend more towards the second rather than the first
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Vixxy » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:10 am

Had a terrible losing streak the other day when I decided to play for a long time. Had a few good games today. The first really, really annoyed me. We had pushed the enemy team into their base and destroyed all but the inner turret on top, along with the inhibitor in mid, but that was early/mid game. As soon as they regrouped and we moved on to team fights my side totally blew it. Our tank wouldn't move past the back of our group, and refused to initiate. So every fight was started by the opposing team who had some pretty decked CC, which apparently scared our tank because he ran from every fight. Every time. They also focused *really* well, which our team couldn't seem to do. Every team fight ended with us aced, and their team all alive, but sub 10% HP. Not much I could do since I was getting focused first as Soraka. Then my team decided to try and kill Baron without killing any of the enemy team, so they came in behind us and steamrolled us, from there it was just a slaughter.

The game after that was pretty fun though. Early/mid game was pretty close. I think there was only one time early on where our bottom managed to kill both enemies, and everything else was 1-for-1 deaths. The teamfights were great for a while, with neither sides doing anything incredibly stupid, but in the early late game we had a few key wins that gave us a couple of turret kills, which gave us the advantage we needed. The best part was us sitting in front of the enemy base, I just kept healing and infusing everyone so we never had to pull back, and just waited holding the enemy in their base and doing zerg in-and-outs to kill on person at a time until we could finally break down their inner turret.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Argali » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:24 am

On the subject of tanks, I've been playing mordekaiser since he's been free for the last 2 weeks on the EU servers, stacking HP, survivability etc, and it depends on how you've been playing previously. I've been called a n00b for having 1/11/15, as Morde, initiating the fight, and dying instead of a dpser, when it's like, hey, that my job. If I'm the only one that dies, and 2-3 people from the opposing team got killed, I'm doing my job. Yet, people will still just look at your KDA ratio and base everything on it.

You get some people who have like 0/5/5, yet 200+ minion kills and 5 building kills, and people will still rage on them.

Also, once you've tried to initiate a couple of times and get no backup, you just stop trying.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Euphoria » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:13 am

Argali wrote:On the subject of tanks, I've been playing mordekaiser since he's been free for the last 2 weeks on the EU servers, stacking HP, survivability etc, and it depends on how you've been playing previously. I've been called a n00b for having 1/11/15, as Morde, initiating the fight, and dying instead of a dpser, when it's like, hey, that my job. If I'm the only one that dies, and 2-3 people from the opposing team got killed, I'm doing my job. Yet, people will still just look at your KDA ratio and base everything on it.


He's so damned OP if you stay away from "normal" tank builds. Read the Codex Metallicus build guide, it's the best one out there.

Now, back to your post...I was in a VERY close game last night (they were beating on one of our two inner turrets while we were dropping their nexus kind of close) where I went 13/13/18. Morde on both teams. While I was heading mid toward their nexus I caught him in lane and had a 1v1 slugfest with him and beat his ass bad while at half health vs. his full health (I'd just gotten done faceraping their Yi). We were both tank builds. I went with the spirit visage/FoN/Randuins/FM/HG build (only leaves me with 3khp but I'm sitting at 75% DR), he was a more traditional Warmogs/Sunfire/Sunfire/Sunfire build.

Moral of the story there? Don't build sunfires on Morde. Your shield is your life. If you passively kill minions you're at a disadvantage in a 1v1, 2v2, or 5v5. They die fast enough to creeping death as it is and siphon is your main source of damage in a tank build and that's going to hit minions anyway. If the enemy is trying to burn through your shield and you're able to replenish it on minions you will never, ever, die. DR affects are applied before your shield takes damage so HP is devalued on him somewhat. Their Morde laughed at my build until I lived through a 3v1 from them long enough to get my carries in position. I only walked out with 1 kill, but I walked out. They didn't.


Argali wrote:You get some people who have like 0/5/5, yet 200+ minion kills and 5 building kills, and people will still rage on them.

Also, once you've tried to initiate a couple of times and get no backup, you just stop trying.


If you've got time to farm 200+ minions I probably wouldn't be terribly happy with the player. You're farming minions and your team is running into teamfights 4v5. KDA isn't such a big deal as long as you are participating and staying grouped in the late game.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Argali » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:52 am

Team fights aren't the only way to play late game. Having a 4v5 chicken fight while someone who can push hard steals towers and inhibitors alone is a valid strategy, and can win games if the other team has an advantage in a straight up 5v5 fight.

I've been on the receiving end of games where the other team walks in a bit, then backs off, repeatedly, and some TF not only steals a tower and an inhibitor, he does it twice. I've also had the joy of a tristrana clearing a whole lane by herself, all 3 towers and the inhibitor while the 4 of us were having a campfire outside the opponents base. She then joined us in team fights, yet while she was doing that hard push, someone on my team was raging at her to join the fight, calling her a n00b.

There's a difference between someone who is creeping blindly and not joining in team fights, and someone who is a pusher who has a game plan. After all, if your teams scores 1000 kills, yet gets no towers or inhibitors, you don't win, but if your team scores 0 kills but gets towers and inhibitors, you win. I just think too many people judge your skill on KDA ratio.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Euphoria » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:20 am

Argali wrote:Team fights aren't the only way to play late game. Having a 4v5 chicken fight while someone who can push hard steals towers and inhibitors alone is a valid strategy, and can win games if the other team has an advantage in a straight up 5v5 fight.

I've been on the receiving end of games where the other team walks in a bit, then backs off, repeatedly, and some TF not only steals a tower and an inhibitor, he does it twice. I've also had the joy of a tristrana clearing a whole lane by herself, all 3 towers and the inhibitor while the 4 of us were having a campfire outside the opponents base. She then joined us in team fights, yet while she was doing that hard push, someone on my team was raging at her to join the fight, calling her a n00b.

There's a difference between someone who is creeping blindly and not joining in team fights, and someone who is a pusher who has a game plan. After all, if your teams scores 1000 kills, yet gets no towers or inhibitors, you don't win, but if your team scores 0 kills but gets towers and inhibitors, you win. I just think too many people judge your skill on KDA ratio.



Agreed. I've won a 4v5 with the tactics you outlined below. It takes two people to stop me in a lane normally. They'll send two while my team has a 3v3 and we can get a push going. I died a few times but our Sion eventually started two shotting their clothies. I think that's the only game I've actually purchased a Warmogs...I farmed it up and sold it in favor of a thornmail.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Hayz » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:20 pm

Ive been playing a few games with shaco now that ive got him, still trying to get a feel for him, but I've had games with only 5-6 kills, but cleared an entire lane and backdoored towers and inhibs while everyone is fighting in the middle of a lane, then promptly gotten bitched at about how im not doing anything for the team. Its usually about the time a carry on our team dies and the enemy wounded back off and run towards their base and i catch one or two from the bushes with a quick deceive shiv kill. I've also gotten complained at in early game for "not helping" when some gung-ho person rushes into the middle of two champions near a turret and then dies. I've had to explain a few times that im not going to join you in a suicidal charge when both champs are at full and im at half...

Ive read a few of the guides but they cover items and runes more than effective playstyles, so anyone who has played with shaco and can give some tips would be appreciated.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Donut » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:58 pm

Ah, I love Shaco he is one of my top 3 played

There are quite a few ways to play him very well it just depends on what you are wanting to do. AP was really popular but its been nerfed and its not as played anymore but the general idea is you build soulstealer/lichbane etc and max jack in the Box first. This play style requires a very high amount of map awareness and the ability to read the enemy teams movements because most of you contribution to the team is literally controlling the map for the first half of the game and getting random jack in the box nest ganks later. (nest = 1-5 JitB in a bush then you bait some poor sap to them)

The more common and I suppose easier way to play him is just attack damage. first thing you need to know is that deceive is a bit bugged where in certain cases if someone is int eh middle of auto attacking you just at the right time your deceive wont go off at all and you will just stand there. Secondly deceive lasts 4 seconds so use that full 4 seconds to position yourself >BEHIND< the person. The difference a 25% boosted deceive crit makes can sometimes determine the fight. The other thing to remember is that poison shivs has a passive component and it is different from the activated. when it's on cool down and at max rank heroes you attack have a 30% chance to miss attacks and are slowed so its not always in your best interest to open with a deceive + shiv instantly just auto attacking a severely crippled hero generally works very well. This is also why I and most Shaco players I know that are going attack damage only put 1 point in deceive early and then max shiv first - the benefit is just that nice.

Overall Shaco makes a great tower stealer while your team is pushing somewhere else as you guys have been talking about and it's pretty easy to pop clone and go to town on a tower if the enemy team is distracted. But while you really shine in 1v1 situations your true Shaco ability will show with how you manage the big 5v5's should they happen. You have to continually try to bait some of them away from the main force. Shaco is not one of those head on guys like Sivir or Ashe that stand behind their melee and fire away at each other. He lurks behind the enemy team always just in range to take a runner down and just far enough to not draw too much fire. They recently changed recommended items for most of the heroes so that they better reflect the intended play style but I've found that Sheen simply isn't worth it as attack since the bonus damage proc doesn't go through the crit damage multiplier of deceive so it doesn't add as much damage to it as you would think.

Couple of other things to know:
-at level 1 if you start with exhaust and ignite and buy a fortitude potion and put your first point in decieve you can easily do 150-200 points of damage and finish a hero off afterward for fast first blood. basically wait a bit of the ways untill the creep waves meet that sneak up in a nearby bush flask>deceive>position behind>exhaust>ignite>profit. Make sure you don't go after someone with cleanse or flash (check for them during the load screen).

-If instead you take jack in the box first (even as attack damage shaco) you can solo the lizard or golem buff at level 1. generally it is better to go for the golem as the lizard will run you out of mana and level 1 liz buff isn't that great. You can youtube this strategy to get a good idea of the positioning and such so I wont go into too much detail.

-If you have the utility mastery that provides +5% exp or a zilean on your team however, you can combine the two strats. with the 5% exp you will hit level 2 if you clear the 2 extra minions the golem comes with. Now you have level 2, deceive and JitB and exhaust and ignite. and if you are fast enough the first creep wave just clashed and everyone else is level 1. This is generally how I open because I run with buddy that mains zil. Just for reference the Golem and Lizard spawn at the 1:55 minute mark and the first side lane creep waves meet right around 2:00.

hope I didn't ramble too much - Cheers
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Levantine » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:03 pm

Ashe is best as AD isn't she? I've been going AD/Crit mostly with generally good results, hopefully I'm not doing it wrong though D:
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Hayz » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:12 pm

I've been trying AD shaco and been doing better than with AP, been trying for first blood and can get it unless against someone with massive stuns (unfortunately they seem to be everywhere this week) still have been able to generally drop someone with a quick decieve ignite swing shiv throw. I've been going deceive first, then 2shiv and alternating, getting hallucinate when i can. I've been starting with long sword and upping it to the stacking sword (occult iirc) and trying to find people at half or wandering alone and take them down or seriously injure them to take them out of the fight for a while. I think it might be like any hero, its just gonna take me a little bit to get better with him. Next on the list to try is kat or TF.
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