Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Fivelives » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:45 am

The extended cut DLC is dropping this coming Tuesday. Interesting note: they released an audio interview where they backed off on their "artistic integrity" stance and described themselves as entertainers, not artists. I guess if fans are still flabbergasted after the 1.9 gigabyte extended cut DLC, they've at least got some wiggle room to change the actual ending now.

Here's the link: http://blog.bioware.com/2012/06/22/mass ... ded-cut-2/
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:38 am

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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby aureon » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:27 am

Fivelives wrote:The extended cut DLC is dropping this coming Tuesday. Interesting note: they released an audio interview where they backed off on their "artistic integrity" stance and described themselves as entertainers, not artists. I guess if fans are still flabbergasted after the 1.9 gigabyte extended cut DLC, they've at least got some wiggle room to change the actual ending now.

Here's the link: http://blog.bioware.com/2012/06/22/mass ... ded-cut-2/

Thing is, a game requires both art and work. You can't throw three knives on a painting and call it a day.
The underlying story and form of expression requires a proper medium.
The medium lacked. There's no artistic integrity to defend. We can defend the use of MarySue and all, but NOT the way the ending is presented.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Skye1013 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:22 pm

aureon wrote:You can't throw three knives on a painting and call it a day.

I have no idea what this means, but the imagery I'm getting of dunking throwing knives in paint, and tossing them at a canvas is quite amusing.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Fivelives » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:19 pm

Skye1013 wrote:
aureon wrote:You can't throw three knives on a painting and call it a day.

I have no idea what this means, but the imagery I'm getting of dunking throwing knives in paint, and tossing them at a canvas is quite amusing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... h-60k.html

That sold for 60,000 pounds (roughly what, close to 80k USD?)

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^ That one sold for $9.26 million.

Try the three knives on a painting idea, you might get insanely rich off of it.

That said, I don't think that "art" - at least not the high arts that we think of as such (painting, poetry, literature, theater) are, or should be interactive. As far as video games as art? Yes. A thousand times, yes. BUT, they are their own kind of art - interactive and malleable.

To digress even further - back during the renaissance, in Europe, an artist was considered a craftsman just like a cabinet maker or tailor. Art was collaborative, between the commissioned artist and the patron that commissioned the piece. I don't think that's changed all that much since then; we still commission artistic works from people, but somehow artistic license* has come to be something like artistic prerogative. In other words, artists expect us to pay for their art, regardless of whether or not it's any good.

Now that the technology is there, is collaboration between the players and the developers such a bad thing? Personally, I don't think so.

*side note: "artistic license" came about during the realist painting era when portraiturists would endeavor to make enough small changes that an unattractive patron would look good. It's also the genesis of the term "to make someone look good"
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby aureon » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:37 am

a guy named Fontana did it in italy, and got rich already.
Thing is, when you're making nonconventional art, you can't pretend to sell it well.
You sell it well when you make it to the requests of the customers.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:33 am

aureon wrote:a guy named Fontana did it in italy, and got rich already.
Thing is, when you're making nonconventional art, you can't pretend to sell it well.
You sell it well when you make it to the requests of the customers.


Yeah, the moment the first thing you read after the credit is "Buy more DLC" the moment the argument about it being art falls flat. Bioware made it a product, and made us a customer along with it as well.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby aureon » Mon Jun 25, 2012 4:50 am

Thing is, it can be both popular and art.
No one is arguing that Pink Floyd's music, or the Mona Lisa wasn't either.
But when you're making out-of-the-box art, you can't EXPECT it to pay your bills, and you can't EXPECT everyone to like it.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Klaudandus » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:21 am

There was this podcast that made a really good argument on why, as a customer, you had every right to complain about me3, and the gaming media missing the point entirely on the nature of the complaints.

It was in the guardian tank, but can remember which episode
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:25 am

Oh my. Apparently, they have actually added at least one new ending.

<HIGHLIGHTABLE SPOILERS>


Child: Your time is at an end. You must decide.
Choice: I reject these choices!
Shepard: I fight for freedom, mine and everyone's fight. I fight for the right to choose our own fate.
Shepard: And if I die, I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you. And I'll die free.
Child: So be it.
Child: The cycle continues.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Torquemada » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:11 am

Apparently whoever said it would be available for download at 2 AM was full of crap.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:09 am

Last edited by Passionario on Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:37 am

Passionario wrote:Oh my. Apparently, they have actually added at least one new ending.

<HIGHLIGHTABLE SPOILERS>



Wow... talk about a Take That to the fans.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Sagara » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:48 am

BSN is currently comparable to Three Miles Island.

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I'm ready.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:51 am

I don't think I'd like to step in there, even with with a jockstrap made out of lead equipped.

Actually, I haven't even been there since the whole Hamburger Helper thing.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:23 am

I have to admit that I like the new Control ending.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Sagara » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:25 am

*hazmat helm pops off*

Okay, went in there, apparently damage isn't as extended as I feared.

I do have one forewarning that is not *that* spoilery:
Keep the extra option for AFTER you tried at least one other. Anyone that tried it first currently looks like a schrieking horror trying to devour forums in their negative space. Those that didn't seem much more peaceful, although some present similar signs, at a much reduced degree.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:04 am

I'm spoiling myself on youtube...

As I see the endings, my question is... why couldn't they have done this from the beginning?
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby aureon » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:17 am

It being free, and me not wanting anything to deal with origin ever again under any circumstance, i do believe this is appropriate:
http://skidrowcrack.com/mass-effect-3-extended-cut/
as an alternative download.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Klaudandus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:24 am

I know I said it already, but am I the only one that feels Refusal being a passive-aggresive "take that" to the fans that complained about the game?
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Flex » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:19 pm

Passionario wrote:I have to admit that I like the new Control ending.


Peace with the barrel of a gun pointed down at you isn't all that appealing to me.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Sagara » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:26 pm

Flex wrote:
Passionario wrote:I have to admit that I like the new Control ending.


Peace with the barrel of a gun pointed down at you isn't all that appealing to me.


True, but we're talking about acceptable ending in a story-line sense, not palatable in a moral sense.
I watched by wife finish the EC yesterday evening, and all four propositions were intrinsicly flawed in their own uniques ways, and the decision was hard to make.

The good thing was, unline the original where none of them were even worthy of consideration, all three were handled so that you considered them on their own footing, not because "Starchild said so". Also, the increased interaction made the Starchild makes him look all the more flawed, and it was GOOD - you realise you are looking at the "face" of the Reaper, which has a reasonable, if flawed argument to make. He knows his option is flawed, and he knows he's beaten, so he tries to help you make sense of what comes next, because he was born to solve the same problem you are facing.

For the same reason you stated, I was completely against Control - One does not protect the Many. One's biais will always color its decision, and is tantamount to tyranny, even if it is benevolent.
In the end, we chose Destroy. It's harsh on the Geth and EDI, but, like it was stated, Synthesis cannot be forced, and throwing a giant DNA-altering pulse "because Shep is stronger than the Reapers" is as forced as you can get. War is the expression of conflicting thoughts, but so is debate. Even if it is less violent, it is not better to force a solution down everyone's throats. Conflict must sadly continue, hopefully in a more metaphorical, debate-kind of way, until Synthesis comes on its own.

Starchild lost and eventually rejected the hope of synthetics and organics to live peacefully, and that's his weakness here. He and the Reapers should be flushed out, as they are the very symbol of this constant war. From there, hopefully, the next generation will welcome its own creations not as slaves, but as children worthy of their own lives, that will some day help us just as we helped them be.
When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:12 am

Flex wrote:
Passionario wrote:I have to admit that I like the new Control ending.


Peace with the barrel of a gun pointed down at you isn't all that appealing to me.


Is there any other kind of peace in Mass Effect universe?

Throughout the entire trilogy, Shepard puts an end to many vicious, stupid conflicts either by pointing a gun at people (Renegade) or by reminding them that there's a Reaper-sized gun pointed at them (Paragon).

(Or maybe I'm just biased because God Emperor of Dune is still one of my favorite books ever)
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Flex » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:47 am

Passionario wrote:
Flex wrote:
Passionario wrote:I have to admit that I like the new Control ending.


Peace with the barrel of a gun pointed down at you isn't all that appealing to me.


Is there any other kind of peace in Mass Effect universe?


The Destroy ending gives hope to that end. The synthesis ending is a post trigger pull peace.

Just in the Control ending there is no Lucious Fox for Batman to give control of the phone-sonar to.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Klaudandus » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:32 am

destroy, refusal, control, synthesis... i like them in that order....even if i killed joker's sexbot and a race of lampheads as a result. in fact, i hate control and synthesis...
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