Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:07 am

Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:12 am

Vanifae wrote:Best choices are pretty obvious for all the roles, Miranda gives you mostly bad advice besides saying she is a good leader. Do not beleive her when she says any biotic can make the shield.


Yeah, Jack or the Asari chick for Biotic duty, Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Zaeed for fireteam duty, Tali or Legion as your Duct Rat of choice and pretty much anyone who's loyal to you to guide your crew back to the Normandy (I picked Mordin, cause much as I loved the character, he wasn't needed for the final boss).
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:14 am

ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Best choices are pretty obvious for all the roles, Miranda gives you mostly bad advice besides saying she is a good leader. Do not beleive her when she says any biotic can make the shield.


Yeah, Jack or the Asari chick for Biotic duty, Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Zaeed for fireteam duty, Tali or Legion as your Duct Rat of choice and pretty much anyone who's loyal to you to guide your crew back to the Normandy (I picked Mordin, cause much as I loved the character, he wasn't needed for the final boss).

Good choices Mordin is a good escort choice, the Hold the Line sequence is actually another point to lose people and you need strong defenders.

Zaeed's loyalty can be maintained with high Paragon and persuasion. It's pretty awesome, I really liked how they made paragon more badass in the sequel.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:43 am

Yeah, I suspect on that playthrough my morality wasn't high enough at the point I did the quest to talk him round. In fact, that has to be my single biggest gripe with the game (outside of planet scanning, but hey now they've developed the hovertank, I expect that to go away in ME3): the explicit tying of your morality score to your persuasion options.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you no longer have to take points out of your Shooting Things In The Face budget to buy Talking to People skills, but as Yahtzee mentioned in his review, it does sometimes turn the question of roleplaying into "what will help my character win persuasion tests later in the game".

That said, I am tempted to now do a horrid playthrough where Everyone Dies Because Shepherd is a Dick.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:09 am

Yeah, I know what you're saying about the persuasion thing. I lost Miranda because I couldn't recover from the Miranda/Jack spat...I was almost exactly 50/50 split between Paragon and Renegade. I like that better than having to blindly pursue one side or another tbh....my Shepard is fircely loyal to his crew, which tends to favor Paragon, but he also doesn't have much patience for idiots and doesn't mind hurting a few criminals and making some credits on the side in pursuit of his goals.

Tali I lost due to loyalty, as again because of my split I didn't have either persuasion option available at her final trial scene and I outed her dad. Zaeed wasn't loyal because I saved the crew but didn't have high enough Paragon, Thane I lost from making him my first specialist (I actually figured he'd die, but hey...he was gone within a year anyway). Mordin I lost because I had Jacob to the shield.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:34 am

It helps to think of each stage of the last mission as putting the spotlight on one character type. By types, I mean leader, soldier, biotic and tech.

For the second squad, you need a leader. No matter how badass and capable they are, a character who normally works alone is not a leader.

The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.

The biotic assignment - you've got a few people who say "I'm a biotic" and one about whom people say things like "most powerful biotic we've ever seen".

The rear guard, by elimination, is the soldiers' time to shine. Anyone with military training is an okay choice here. The trick is to get all the nonmilitary people out of this assignment, either by taking them with you to the final confrontation or by sending them back with the crew.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:38 am

Importing a character from ME1 gives a lot of leeway in regards to Paragon/Renegade choices in ME2, especially in the first half of the game.

Arcand wrote:The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.


And another is a team of 1297 superhackers packed into one body.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:42 am

Passionario wrote:Importing a character from ME1 gives a lot of leeway in regards to Paragon/Renegade choices in ME2, especially in the first half of the game.

Arcand wrote:The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.


And another is a team of 1297 superhackers packed into one body.


Entirely true. I was trying to keep each line short so I oversimplified.

Anyway, you get to hear more of Tali's voice if you send her into the oven. ;)

(By the way, I was terribly proud of Bioware for producing a different line for every single gate. Un-lazy of them.)
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:54 am

tbh, I completely don't get what it is with people and Tali...she doesn't do anything for me. I save her ass from a tribunal and she just gets all whiny because she's in denial about that fact that her father wasn't the great guy she thought he was.

I suppose one thing about the ending is that, to be honest, I didn't really case when any of my characters died. I mean, I would've liked to have had Mordin and Miranda in Mass Effect 3, but there's no one whose story was so compelling that I couldn't imagine continuing on without them. I guess it's also because most of the suspense was taken out of the situation...there was an obvious impression that characters might die on that mission, and up until that point you didn't have to worry about your characters at all. I think character death is usually more effective as a plot element when it happens unexpectedly somewhere in the middle of the game.

Now the tradeoff is the plot flexibility, which I though was implemented amazingly and which definitely added a ton to the game...it's just that that decision does necessitate some compromises on the depth of the story (especially with as many characters as it has), and that to me is one big part of why I'll looking forwardf to playing it again, but don't think of it as "best rpg evar"
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:20 am

ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.


Speaking of Zaeed's loyalty mission, if you do it after completing Omega-4 suicide run and pick the Paragon path, there will be a new hidden option.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:23 am

Dorvan wrote:tbh, I completely don't get what it is with people and Tali...she doesn't do anything for me. I save her ass from a tribunal and she just gets all whiny because she's in denial about that fact that her father wasn't the great guy she thought he was.

The big appeal for Tali is the nerd girl, the voice, and the mystery. I think Tali is awesome, I am not obsessed with her like some of the fans... but I like her. I had enough persuasion to win the crowd. You actually don;t need persuasion to win the case though if you save Kal'Reegar and send Veetor back to the migrant fleet you can use them to rally the crowd against the Board and win.

Even if her dad was a monster I felt her pain and could not see doing that to her. Even if she gets exiled she can change that. But stripping her father from the record is irreversible. I could see why she would not trust you after that.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:24 am

Passionario wrote:
ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.


Speaking of Zaeed's loyalty mission, if you do it after completing Omega-4 suicide run and pick the Paragon path, there will be a new hidden option.


I think I'm going to find my pre-Zaeed save and make that happen. I did some out of character things in his loyalty mission because I thought they were required to succeed, they stuck in my craw, and Zaeed wasn't worth it anyway.

Edit: It is done. I won't be too surprised if a scarred, cranky Zaeed tracks me down in ME3...
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:25 am

Zaeed is awesome, plus his voice actor is like all over the place in Dragon Age.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:35 am

Vanifae wrote:Zaeed is awesome, plus his voice actor is like all over the place in Dragon Age.


Robin Sachs was in many awesome things. Buffy (Ethan Muthafucking Rayne!), Babylon 5, Galaxy Quest. I did notice how much they (over?) used him in DA though. It felt like he was pretty much every non-party member male voice at one point. I guess someone at Bioware likes him.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:35 am

Vanifae wrote:
Dorvan wrote:tbh, I completely don't get what it is with people and Tali...she doesn't do anything for me. I save her ass from a tribunal and she just gets all whiny because she's in denial about that fact that her father wasn't the great guy she thought he was.

The big appeal for Tali is the nerd girl, the voice, and the mystery. I think Tali is awesome, I am not obsessed with her like some of the fans... but I like her. I had enough persuasion to win the crowd. You actually don;t need persuasion to win the case though if you save Kal'Reegar and send Veetor back to the migrant fleet you can use them to rally the crowd against the Board and win.

Even if her dad was a monster I felt her pain and could not see doing that to her. Even if she gets exiled she can change that. But stripping her father from the record is irreversible. I could see why she would not trust you after that.


Well, I sent Veetor to Cerberus, so that wouldn't have been an option for me. At any rate, I still had no problem with outing her father. Yes, I'm sure it was painful for her, but better to have everything out in the open and learn to deal with it than to allow the denial to persist.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:38 am

Dorvan wrote:Well, I sent Veetor to Cerberus, so that wouldn't have been an option for me. At any rate, I still had no problem with outing her father. Yes, I'm sure it was painful for her, but better to have everything out in the open and learn to deal with it than to allow the denial to persist.

I guess I disagree I go for the trust of my companions and I had the persuasion so I pulled it off anyways. I hated Cerberus and did all I could to fuck them over. Giving Veetor to the Migrant Fleet was an easy choice for me and I kept Kal alive. I owed them nothing, sure they brought me back, but only as a tool, and I got the job done then flipped them the bird.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:00 am

I've got no love for Cerberus either, I just figured that Veetor might have intel that would be important to saving the galaxy, which is what I'm trying to do after all. My character was definitely pissed when he saw what Cerberus had done to Veetor. I did keep Kal alive.

As far as trust of my companions...my Shepard wants to trust of his companions, but he's also able to take a long view of things. Given my options at that point, I wasn't about to let Tali throw her life away to preserve her idyllic view of someone who's dead.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:03 am

Vanifae wrote:Zaeed is awesome, plus his voice actor is like all over the place in Dragon Age.


Much love for Robin Sachs, but I found Zaeed kinda one-dimensional. All his dialogue was about reminding you that he's harder than a bag of hard things.

At the other end of the spectrum, every time I did anything outside the ship I'd be trotting back to visit Joker, Legion, Mordin and the engineers to see if I'd unlocked any new exchanges. :D
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:05 am

Mordin is a favorite of mine. The engineers were awesome. I liked Grunt and of course Tali. Jacob reminded me of my myself and Joker is always classic.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Io.Draco » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:45 am

Well Zaeed was epic: I view him as a combination of Canderous Ordo and HK-47. Easily one of the characters I liked the most, beyond Garrus/Tali/Legion. People don't like him because he is willing to let civilians die to kill Vido, but I do completly agree with him. You do not let the leader of the Blue Suns get away just to save a few lives.

Dorvan: Regarding Tali, I can say her trial posses an interesting moral question. Do you ignore the crimes Rael'Zorah did just because your friend asked you to and that the dead should not be spat upon, or do you show the evidence against the wishes of your friend, also stopping the war plans of the Quarians against the Geth by making Han'Gerrel and Xen lose their credibility.

I like and hate Tali at the same time. I hate the fact she is so fanatical about reclaiming her world, even though it would cost hundreds of thousands of Quarian lives, but I also admire her determination and selflessness with which she stands for her people. It sorta reminds of a relationship I had with a girl once, and as a good friend of mine said: The best relationships are ones where you can argue over things, not simply agree. I do find the whole Tali fanboys/girls thing disturbing though.

Grunt for me is just a FAR weaker copy of Wrex, not living up to the standard of sheer awesome that is the 1.000 year old merc. Legion is interesting, to say the least, and Garrus, well he is my brother in arms.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Njall » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:49 am

Vanifae wrote:Mordin


"What do you want?"
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Minnerva » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:45 am

Njall wrote:Or, of course, this.

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i was looking at something to post about this game since i haven't played it only read about it. found this to go with your picture. thought you might get a laugh out of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv3k52QOf8w

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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:04 am

It's been posted before, but it hasn't stopped being awesome. Someone more imaginative than me could do a whole series of Interrupt cartoons like this and I think I'd love it. :D
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:15 am

Io.Draco wrote:Well Zaeed was epic: I view him as a combination of Canderous Ordo and HK-47. Easily one of the characters I liked the most, beyond Garrus/Tali/Legion. People don't like him because he is willing to let civilians die to kill Vido, but I do completly agree with him. You do not let the leader of the Blue Suns get away just to save a few lives.


I guess I missed the part where the Blue Suns were worse than any of the other mercenary groups we've torn a hole through. Will they suddenly become the Eridani Light Horse* if we free them from Vido's evil influence, or something? :)



*An uncommonly ethical mercenary group from the Battletech universe
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Njall » Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:18 am

Stop.
Obscure geek point awarded: Arcand.
Resume Play.
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