Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:07 am

Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:12 am

Vanifae wrote:Best choices are pretty obvious for all the roles, Miranda gives you mostly bad advice besides saying she is a good leader. Do not beleive her when she says any biotic can make the shield.


Yeah, Jack or the Asari chick for Biotic duty, Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Zaeed for fireteam duty, Tali or Legion as your Duct Rat of choice and pretty much anyone who's loyal to you to guide your crew back to the Normandy (I picked Mordin, cause much as I loved the character, he wasn't needed for the final boss).
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:14 am

ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Best choices are pretty obvious for all the roles, Miranda gives you mostly bad advice besides saying she is a good leader. Do not beleive her when she says any biotic can make the shield.


Yeah, Jack or the Asari chick for Biotic duty, Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Zaeed for fireteam duty, Tali or Legion as your Duct Rat of choice and pretty much anyone who's loyal to you to guide your crew back to the Normandy (I picked Mordin, cause much as I loved the character, he wasn't needed for the final boss).

Good choices Mordin is a good escort choice, the Hold the Line sequence is actually another point to lose people and you need strong defenders.

Zaeed's loyalty can be maintained with high Paragon and persuasion. It's pretty awesome, I really liked how they made paragon more badass in the sequel.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:43 am

Yeah, I suspect on that playthrough my morality wasn't high enough at the point I did the quest to talk him round. In fact, that has to be my single biggest gripe with the game (outside of planet scanning, but hey now they've developed the hovertank, I expect that to go away in ME3): the explicit tying of your morality score to your persuasion options.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you no longer have to take points out of your Shooting Things In The Face budget to buy Talking to People skills, but as Yahtzee mentioned in his review, it does sometimes turn the question of roleplaying into "what will help my character win persuasion tests later in the game".

That said, I am tempted to now do a horrid playthrough where Everyone Dies Because Shepherd is a Dick.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:09 am

Yeah, I know what you're saying about the persuasion thing. I lost Miranda because I couldn't recover from the Miranda/Jack spat...I was almost exactly 50/50 split between Paragon and Renegade. I like that better than having to blindly pursue one side or another tbh....my Shepard is fircely loyal to his crew, which tends to favor Paragon, but he also doesn't have much patience for idiots and doesn't mind hurting a few criminals and making some credits on the side in pursuit of his goals.

Tali I lost due to loyalty, as again because of my split I didn't have either persuasion option available at her final trial scene and I outed her dad. Zaeed wasn't loyal because I saved the crew but didn't have high enough Paragon, Thane I lost from making him my first specialist (I actually figured he'd die, but hey...he was gone within a year anyway). Mordin I lost because I had Jacob to the shield.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:34 am

It helps to think of each stage of the last mission as putting the spotlight on one character type. By types, I mean leader, soldier, biotic and tech.

For the second squad, you need a leader. No matter how badass and capable they are, a character who normally works alone is not a leader.

The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.

The biotic assignment - you've got a few people who say "I'm a biotic" and one about whom people say things like "most powerful biotic we've ever seen".

The rear guard, by elimination, is the soldiers' time to shine. Anyone with military training is an okay choice here. The trick is to get all the nonmilitary people out of this assignment, either by taking them with you to the final confrontation or by sending them back with the crew.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:38 am

Importing a character from ME1 gives a lot of leeway in regards to Paragon/Renegade choices in ME2, especially in the first half of the game.

Arcand wrote:The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.


And another is a team of 1297 superhackers packed into one body.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:42 am

Passionario wrote:Importing a character from ME1 gives a lot of leeway in regards to Paragon/Renegade choices in ME2, especially in the first half of the game.

Arcand wrote:The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.


And another is a team of 1297 superhackers packed into one body.


Entirely true. I was trying to keep each line short so I oversimplified.

Anyway, you get to hear more of Tali's voice if you send her into the oven. ;)

(By the way, I was terribly proud of Bioware for producing a different line for every single gate. Un-lazy of them.)
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:54 am

tbh, I completely don't get what it is with people and Tali...she doesn't do anything for me. I save her ass from a tribunal and she just gets all whiny because she's in denial about that fact that her father wasn't the great guy she thought he was.

I suppose one thing about the ending is that, to be honest, I didn't really case when any of my characters died. I mean, I would've liked to have had Mordin and Miranda in Mass Effect 3, but there's no one whose story was so compelling that I couldn't imagine continuing on without them. I guess it's also because most of the suspense was taken out of the situation...there was an obvious impression that characters might die on that mission, and up until that point you didn't have to worry about your characters at all. I think character death is usually more effective as a plot element when it happens unexpectedly somewhere in the middle of the game.

Now the tradeoff is the plot flexibility, which I though was implemented amazingly and which definitely added a ton to the game...it's just that that decision does necessitate some compromises on the depth of the story (especially with as many characters as it has), and that to me is one big part of why I'll looking forwardf to playing it again, but don't think of it as "best rpg evar"
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:20 am

ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.


Speaking of Zaeed's loyalty mission, if you do it after completing Omega-4 suicide run and pick the Paragon path, there will be a new hidden option.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:23 am

Dorvan wrote:tbh, I completely don't get what it is with people and Tali...she doesn't do anything for me. I save her ass from a tribunal and she just gets all whiny because she's in denial about that fact that her father wasn't the great guy she thought he was.

The big appeal for Tali is the nerd girl, the voice, and the mystery. I think Tali is awesome, I am not obsessed with her like some of the fans... but I like her. I had enough persuasion to win the crowd. You actually don;t need persuasion to win the case though if you save Kal'Reegar and send Veetor back to the migrant fleet you can use them to rally the crowd against the Board and win.

Even if her dad was a monster I felt her pain and could not see doing that to her. Even if she gets exiled she can change that. But stripping her father from the record is irreversible. I could see why she would not trust you after that.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:24 am

Passionario wrote:
ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.


Speaking of Zaeed's loyalty mission, if you do it after completing Omega-4 suicide run and pick the Paragon path, there will be a new hidden option.


I think I'm going to find my pre-Zaeed save and make that happen. I did some out of character things in his loyalty mission because I thought they were required to succeed, they stuck in my craw, and Zaeed wasn't worth it anyway.

Edit: It is done. I won't be too surprised if a scarred, cranky Zaeed tracks me down in ME3...
Last edited by Arcand on Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:25 am

Zaeed is awesome, plus his voice actor is like all over the place in Dragon Age.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:35 am

Vanifae wrote:Zaeed is awesome, plus his voice actor is like all over the place in Dragon Age.


Robin Sachs was in many awesome things. Buffy (Ethan Muthafucking Rayne!), Babylon 5, Galaxy Quest. I did notice how much they (over?) used him in DA though. It felt like he was pretty much every non-party member male voice at one point. I guess someone at Bioware likes him.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:35 am

Vanifae wrote:
Dorvan wrote:tbh, I completely don't get what it is with people and Tali...she doesn't do anything for me. I save her ass from a tribunal and she just gets all whiny because she's in denial about that fact that her father wasn't the great guy she thought he was.

The big appeal for Tali is the nerd girl, the voice, and the mystery. I think Tali is awesome, I am not obsessed with her like some of the fans... but I like her. I had enough persuasion to win the crowd. You actually don;t need persuasion to win the case though if you save Kal'Reegar and send Veetor back to the migrant fleet you can use them to rally the crowd against the Board and win.

Even if her dad was a monster I felt her pain and could not see doing that to her. Even if she gets exiled she can change that. But stripping her father from the record is irreversible. I could see why she would not trust you after that.


Well, I sent Veetor to Cerberus, so that wouldn't have been an option for me. At any rate, I still had no problem with outing her father. Yes, I'm sure it was painful for her, but better to have everything out in the open and learn to deal with it than to allow the denial to persist.
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