Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Io.Draco » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:53 pm

So instead I should support the Citadel Council who had no qualms whatsoever about the genocide they committed upon the Rachni, sterilizing the Krogan TWICE. Or the Alliance who is responsible for hundred of thousands of deaths of kids just so they could get biotics?

Or perhaps I should support the Quarians who seem willing to play God.

Cerberus isn't perfect but I don't make any illusion that any government is "good" as people seem to naively think.

Also, Cerberus shows that it is willing to do whatever it takes to advance the human agenda - so being loyal to Cerberus for me would only work if you are roleplaying a human supremacist Shepard.


Cerberus shows that it is willing to do whatever it takes to stop the reapers, no red tape, no bullshit poltics, no questions about your methods. Perhaps you should take that in mind.

Apparently Paragons believe that brain washing some geth, even though sapient beings, is the moral choice to do, but giving a base to Cerberus, which contains only tech data is wrong? WTF is that bullshit thinking?
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Aelissa » Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:46 pm

I think you're getting too worked up over this.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:39 pm

I had sex with Tali.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Solare » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:19 pm

Io.Draco wrote:So instead I should support the Citadel Council who had no qualms whatsoever about the genocide they committed upon the Rachni, sterilizing the Krogan TWICE. Or the Alliance who is responsible for hundred of thousands of deaths of kids just so they could get biotics?

Or perhaps I should support the Quarians who seem willing to play God.

Cerberus isn't perfect but I don't make any illusion that any government is "good" as people seem to naively think.

Also, Cerberus shows that it is willing to do whatever it takes to advance the human agenda - so being loyal to Cerberus for me would only work if you are roleplaying a human supremacist Shepard.


Cerberus shows that it is willing to do whatever it takes to stop the reapers, no red tape, no bullshit poltics, no questions about your methods. Perhaps you should take that in mind.

Apparently Paragons believe that brain washing some geth, even though sapient beings, is the moral choice to do, but giving a base to Cerberus, which contains only tech data is wrong? WTF is that bullshit thinking?


And Cerberus thought it'd be a good idea to try and turn thorian creepers and rachni into slave troopers. Oh, and let's not even talk about Project Zero, the preliminary course before the team went to the Alliance and caused all those child deaths you mentioned. Bottom line: no one is perfect.

The Council? Can't get anything done, always out-source their problems. This can be both good and bad.

The Alliance: Too harsh to get by without innocent casualties, too meek to really get the job done effectively.

Cerberus: Are really the 'any means necessary' kind of people. While you can't argue with their results, they often don't take the time to seek out alternative, but equally effective, measures.

And brainwashing the Geth may seem draconic in our minds, but really, you're saving countless 'lives' over what is literally explained to be a computer glitch. It doesn't take a lot of philosophical debate over the noble choice there. Plus, you're not guaranteed Geth allegiance, and you're adding directly to the strength of their society. Being a Paragon means not always doing things that work in your favor.

And what exactly, given their track record and value placed on sapient life, what do you think Cerberus is going to do with a space station that liquifies living beings and turns them into neigh' indestructible starships? The only question in the Elusive Man's mind would be whether or not it's loyalty can be acquired. That would be the ONLY obstacle for Cerberus, and perhaps the logistics of harvesting hundreds of thousands of sapients. I bet he would reconstruct the Harvester ship and pretend it was their work. Targeting the colonies of alien races in the Terminus systems and beyond if it was necessary.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Aelissa » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:32 am

So, Vanifae...

Did you, by chance, have any luck yet with getting to spend the night with Tali?
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Harlequina » Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:46 am

Definately one of the best RPGs ever made. Note: ONE of the best. There's so many... But this one did feel very "polished" and right, so to speak.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:12 am

Aelissa wrote:So, Vanifae...

Did you, by chance, have any luck yet with getting to spend the night with Tali?

Maybe.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby rathe » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:47 am

Joker and his computer wife were some of my favorite parts of the game. That or Joker's opinions of the crew. Of course, I wont lie, I love Seth Green. Though there were so many good parts. The Salarian's Bachelor party. The Quarian/Turian "friends" that I could relate to from High school and possibly would have persuaded me towards Tali if I wasn't already...
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:57 pm

rathe wrote:That or Joker's opinions of the crew.


"So, Jack's crazy. I'm glad we got that sorted out, it was just hangin' there."
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:02 am

I wrote a small review of the Mass Effect 2 OST with a few youtube links to some of my fave songs:

http://www.vanifae.com/2010/03/29/mass- ... st-review/

Good stuff if you like music.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:35 am

Just finished...definitely not *the best* RPG I've ever played, not nearly, but that's not really a knock on it...it was excellent and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Apparently I suck at keeping people alive though, my casualty list:

Miranda
Mordin
Tali
Thane
Zaeed


Oh, and as far as then end...I chose to save the station. Yes, I fully expect TIM to try to dick me over (again, imo) at some point...but understanding reaper technology could be very important to winning this war, and I wasn't about to pass up on that opportunity. I don't trust TIM one bit, I simply think I can outmaneuver him in the end.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:43 am

ME2's still my favourite video game RPG since KotoR/KotoR 2. I just started my third playthrough to get the stink of Dragon Age: Awakening out of my mouth.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:36 am

Dorvan wrote:Just finished...definitely not *the best* RPG I've ever played, not nearly, but that's not really a knock on it...it was excellent and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Apparently I suck at keeping people alive though, my casualty list:

Miranda
Mordin
Tali
Thane
Zaeed


Oh, and as far as then end...I chose to save the station. Yes, I fully expect TIM to try to dick me over (again, imo) at some point...but understanding reaper technology could be very important to winning this war, and I wasn't about to pass up on that opportunity. I don't trust TIM one bit, I simply think I can outmaneuver him in the end.

Jesus you lost quite a bit...
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:01 am

Slightly Spoilery guide to making everyone live:

1. Get all the ship upgrades (well you can skip the med bay, the probes and the fuel capacity boost, but you'll lose one squad member for each other upgrade undone).

2. Do all the loyalty missions you can. (Note, the only one I failed in two playthroughs was Zaeed's, when I took the obvious Paragon option.)

3. When assigning operatives for the extra assignments at the collector base, pick people whose loyalty you have secured. If you get someone commenting that your choice is bad, choose someone else.

4. ????
5. Profit.
Last edited by ulushnar on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:05 am

Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.

Best choices are pretty obvious for all the roles, Miranda gives you mostly bad advice besides saying she is a good leader. Do not beleive her when she says any biotic can make the shield.

Also yeah upgrade the ship.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:07 am

Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:12 am

Vanifae wrote:Best choices are pretty obvious for all the roles, Miranda gives you mostly bad advice besides saying she is a good leader. Do not beleive her when she says any biotic can make the shield.


Yeah, Jack or the Asari chick for Biotic duty, Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Zaeed for fireteam duty, Tali or Legion as your Duct Rat of choice and pretty much anyone who's loyal to you to guide your crew back to the Normandy (I picked Mordin, cause much as I loved the character, he wasn't needed for the final boss).
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Vanifae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:14 am

ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Best choices are pretty obvious for all the roles, Miranda gives you mostly bad advice besides saying she is a good leader. Do not beleive her when she says any biotic can make the shield.


Yeah, Jack or the Asari chick for Biotic duty, Jacob, Garrus, Miranda or Zaeed for fireteam duty, Tali or Legion as your Duct Rat of choice and pretty much anyone who's loyal to you to guide your crew back to the Normandy (I picked Mordin, cause much as I loved the character, he wasn't needed for the final boss).

Good choices Mordin is a good escort choice, the Hold the Line sequence is actually another point to lose people and you need strong defenders.

Zaeed's loyalty can be maintained with high Paragon and persuasion. It's pretty awesome, I really liked how they made paragon more badass in the sequel.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:43 am

Yeah, I suspect on that playthrough my morality wasn't high enough at the point I did the quest to talk him round. In fact, that has to be my single biggest gripe with the game (outside of planet scanning, but hey now they've developed the hovertank, I expect that to go away in ME3): the explicit tying of your morality score to your persuasion options.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you no longer have to take points out of your Shooting Things In The Face budget to buy Talking to People skills, but as Yahtzee mentioned in his review, it does sometimes turn the question of roleplaying into "what will help my character win persuasion tests later in the game".

That said, I am tempted to now do a horrid playthrough where Everyone Dies Because Shepherd is a Dick.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:09 am

Yeah, I know what you're saying about the persuasion thing. I lost Miranda because I couldn't recover from the Miranda/Jack spat...I was almost exactly 50/50 split between Paragon and Renegade. I like that better than having to blindly pursue one side or another tbh....my Shepard is fircely loyal to his crew, which tends to favor Paragon, but he also doesn't have much patience for idiots and doesn't mind hurting a few criminals and making some credits on the side in pursuit of his goals.

Tali I lost due to loyalty, as again because of my split I didn't have either persuasion option available at her final trial scene and I outed her dad. Zaeed wasn't loyal because I saved the crew but didn't have high enough Paragon, Thane I lost from making him my first specialist (I actually figured he'd die, but hey...he was gone within a year anyway). Mordin I lost because I had Jacob to the shield.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:34 am

It helps to think of each stage of the last mission as putting the spotlight on one character type. By types, I mean leader, soldier, biotic and tech.

For the second squad, you need a leader. No matter how badass and capable they are, a character who normally works alone is not a leader.

The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.

The biotic assignment - you've got a few people who say "I'm a biotic" and one about whom people say things like "most powerful biotic we've ever seen".

The rear guard, by elimination, is the soldiers' time to shine. Anyone with military training is an okay choice here. The trick is to get all the nonmilitary people out of this assignment, either by taking them with you to the final confrontation or by sending them back with the crew.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:38 am

Importing a character from ME1 gives a lot of leeway in regards to Paragon/Renegade choices in ME2, especially in the first half of the game.

Arcand wrote:The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.


And another is a team of 1297 superhackers packed into one body.
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Arcand » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:42 am

Passionario wrote:Importing a character from ME1 gives a lot of leeway in regards to Paragon/Renegade choices in ME2, especially in the first half of the game.

Arcand wrote:The hacking assignment requires a tech. One of your team members is one of the greatest technical minds of their generation.


And another is a team of 1297 superhackers packed into one body.


Entirely true. I was trying to keep each line short so I oversimplified.

Anyway, you get to hear more of Tali's voice if you send her into the oven. ;)

(By the way, I was terribly proud of Bioware for producing a different line for every single gate. Un-lazy of them.)
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Dorvan » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:54 am

tbh, I completely don't get what it is with people and Tali...she doesn't do anything for me. I save her ass from a tribunal and she just gets all whiny because she's in denial about that fact that her father wasn't the great guy she thought he was.

I suppose one thing about the ending is that, to be honest, I didn't really case when any of my characters died. I mean, I would've liked to have had Mordin and Miranda in Mass Effect 3, but there's no one whose story was so compelling that I couldn't imagine continuing on without them. I guess it's also because most of the suspense was taken out of the situation...there was an obvious impression that characters might die on that mission, and up until that point you didn't have to worry about your characters at all. I think character death is usually more effective as a plot element when it happens unexpectedly somewhere in the middle of the game.

Now the tradeoff is the plot flexibility, which I though was implemented amazingly and which definitely added a ton to the game...it's just that that decision does necessitate some compromises on the depth of the story (especially with as many characters as it has), and that to me is one big part of why I'll looking forwardf to playing it again, but don't think of it as "best rpg evar"
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Re: Mass Effect - Best RPG series of all time?

Postby Passionario » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:20 am

ulushnar wrote:
Vanifae wrote:Zaeed's loyalty can be secured even with the Paragon path.


Really? how? Admittedly I probably faffed around a bit too much after clearing the big room before the end, but I got outside as the target was taking off.


Speaking of Zaeed's loyalty mission, if you do it after completing Omega-4 suicide run and pick the Paragon path, there will be a new hidden option.
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