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Star Wars; Old Republic

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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Chicken » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:00 pm

Kelaan wrote:[*]What does SWTOR do better than WoW? What does it have that WoW is missing, or does poorly? I know some of you will say "no pandas" but as pandas don't seem to bother me, I'm looking for something more. ;)
I personally really like the fact that each class has it's own unique story guiding it through the game, along with the fact that you're capable of (somewhat) affecting the outcome of things with the choices you make during quest dialogue. The game also seems to be capable of somewhat more impressive technical feats as part of its dungeon/raid encounters than WoW is. I personally also kinda like the lack of auto-attacks on most classes (I dislike it on the Jedi Shadow/Sith Assassin). Ironically that's made me slightly more enthusiastic for the Monk class that's coming to WoW, since that seems like it'd play similar.
[*]What do you dislike about SWTOR? What are your biggest gripes? (And are these things which WoW does better, or is it something both do poorly at?)
I do feel that movement and the like feels a bit more smooth in WoW compared to TOR; mob movement in particular tends to look a bit weird out in the wild, while it's generally smooth in WoW. Also, and this is rather petty, it's kinda lazy how all the "races" are pretty much just humans with minor cosmetic adjustments.
[*]Do you play both WoW and SWTOR? (Or, if you have a wow subscription, is it only for D3 plus beta access to pandas?)
I'm only playing TOR currently, though I did sign up for the annual pass for WoW. Kinda regret that, but I wasn't expecting to like this game as much as I ended up doing.
[*]Did you swap to SWTOR because you had "finished" Cataclysm, or because the game just does a lot of things better? (if it does)
I was pretty much bored with WoW and that was my primary motivation. Also I'm a sucker for voice acted RPGs.
[*]If you PvP, what do you like better about the pvp than wow's? Aside from Huttball (which I admit seems a bit more fun than CTF), is there anything else? Is there an equivalent to arenas, or is it all larger group combat?
I haven't PvPed much, but all the PvP is more like battlegrounds. One of the other battlegrounds is basically Arathi Basin except with only 3 nodes to control, whereas the other is most reminiscent of Strand of the Ancients though without the vehicles.
[*]I realize this is a very small sample size, but is server balance completely hosed? Last I'd heard, it sounded like Republic was outnumbered by a large margin, which makes a pvp server (or a pvp zone) sound very daunting.
On most servers the Empire definitely outpopulates the Republic. I've played both sides a bit on the server I'm on (Luka Sene, European PvE server) and there's generally about twice as many people in the central Imperial hub then in the central Republic hub. Can't speak for other servers though.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Sabindeus » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:24 pm

What does SWTOR do better than WoW? What does it have that WoW is missing, or does poorly? I know some of you will say "no pandas" but as pandas don't seem to bother me, I'm looking for something more. ;)
Voice acted cutscenes.

What do you dislike about SWTOR? What are your biggest gripes? (And are these things which WoW does better, or is it something both do poorly at?)
The UI is horrible. The class balance is definitely off, not as much as say, WoW on release, but definitely way more than WoW nowadays.

Do you play both WoW and SWTOR? (Or, if you have a wow subscription, is it only for D3 plus beta access to pandas?)
I log onto WoW not very often lately, but I'm also not logging on to SWTOR every night either. I have a lot of games to play. Including D3 whenever it comes out and Panda beta whenever THAT happens.

Did you swap to SWTOR because you had "finished" Cataclysm, or because the game just does a lot of things better? (if it does)
I don't feel like I "swapped" to SWTOR so much as it was another game that came out that I wanted to play for various reasons.


If you PvP, what do you like better about the pvp than wow's? Aside from Huttball (which I admit seems a bit more fun than CTF), is there anything else? Is there an equivalent to arenas, or is it all larger group combat?
PVP in this game is kinda shitty, to be quite honest. I think it might be better since some of the adjustments they made to ability delay and animation interruption but the prior experience I had so soured me on it that I don't feel like Warzoning ever again. Furthermore due to population imbalance (see below) World PVP is pretty much a lost cause.

I realize this is a very small sample size, but is server balance completely hosed? Last I'd heard, it sounded like Republic was outnumbered by a large margin, which makes a pvp server (or a pvp zone) sound very daunting.
Yes. If you play this game, do it on a PVE server. Population balance is overwhelmingly Empire favored on pretty much every single server. It is pretty much a joke. Personally I play Republic and find this situation to be extremely sad but there's really no constructive criticism to be given about it. It's a matter of taste, and I think that 75% of the players of this game have shitty taste. Empire is awful and I can't imagine why anyone would roll it.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Barathorn » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:57 am

Sabindeus wrote:I realize this is a very small sample size, but is server balance completely hosed? Last I'd heard, it sounded like Republic was outnumbered by a large margin, which makes a pvp server (or a pvp zone) sound very daunting.
Yes. If you play this game, do it on a PVE server. Population balance is overwhelmingly Empire favored on pretty much every single server. It is pretty much a joke. Personally I play Republic and find this situation to be extremely sad but there's really no constructive criticism to be given about it. It's a matter of taste, and I think that 75% of the players of this game have shitty taste. Empire is awful and I can't imagine why anyone would roll it.


That is purely personal taste Sabin and isn't true for every server from my experiances [EU Based]. While in general Empire is the more played faction [EU] there are several strong Republic servers and several where the balance is about the same.

I play on Hydian Way [EU] and the balance seems ok although I can't vouch for 50 PVP [which a lot is judged on because of the Ilum World PVP Dailies] as I don't have a 50 Character yet because its too much fun playing alts to 20 and seeing what each class does.

The leveling is linear though and you have set zones for set levels like wow but you only have 1 zone for levels 10-16 for example rather than 2-3 like WoW has so the leveling can get a little repetitive if you just quest all the time. I personally break this up with PvP.

10-49 PVP is 100% a lot of fun - far better than WOW PvP in every respect even with only 3 Warzones to play [which you can't choose from so you can end up playing multiple games of the same Warzone] and a new Warzone is coming in patch 1.2 [March I think] along with Guild Banks and a movable UI.

If you want a 2 player + co-op game to play online then SWTOR is a fantastic experiance. As an MMO? It is still early days so I will wait and see. For the price of the game its worth it just to play KOTOR 3 basically. Anything else you get from the game is upto you to decide what you want from it.

I personally like the fact that you can't use any add ons and that the game is controlled by Bioware very carefully regarding that. I personally think too many add ons ruin the experiance and I love the fact that DPS meters aren't more important than the gameplay and not standing in shit. All current content is clearable without any add ons required and it is unlikely that things like DBM will ever be allowed in game.

Don't however expect the be all and end all, it is still only at release stage. 7.5/10 for me with hopes it will reach 8.5/10 with patch 1.2.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Passionario » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:28 am

For me, SWTOR is a cooperative Bioware RPG that I can play together with my wife.

SWTOR supports this playstyle much better than WoW, where everything is either soloable or requires 5+ people.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby crazyharry » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:41 am

Kelaan wrote:What does SWTOR do better than WoW? What does it have that WoW is missing, or does poorly? I know some of you will say "no pandas" but as pandas don't seem to bother me, I'm looking for something more. ;)


As previously stated, the voice acting is good, and as its skippable if you are levelling an alt you can space bar throught all the optional quests and just listen to your class specific ones.

Kelaan wrote:What do you dislike about SWTOR? What are your biggest gripes? (And are these things which WoW does better, or is it something both do poorly at?)


Class balance, UI, same old stuff that bugs everyone. Professions need looing at (what you can make, I actually like the sending your companions of to do the work for you bit)
Empire being much better at huttball because they get so much practic at it :D
Game randomly running like crap on super snazzy computers but running fine on middle of the road ones.

Kelaan wrote:Do you play both WoW and SWTOR? (Or, if you have a wow subscription, is it only for D3 plus beta access to pandas?)


Only SWTOR now, everyone I know quit WoW and the people were the only reason I was continuing to play. Im not even guilded in SWTOR at the moment and having a lot more fun than I was in WoW.

Kelaan wrote:Did you swap to SWTOR because you had "finished" Cataclysm, or because the game just does a lot of things better? (if it does)


See above.

Kelaan wrote:If you PvP, what do you like better about the pvp than wow's? Aside from Huttball (which I admit seems a bit more fun than CTF), is there anything else? Is there an equivalent to arenas, or is it all larger group combat?


1 - 49 PVP is great fun, classes are more evenly balanced even if scoundrels have to wait till 32 to get their class defing ability and shadows have to wait till 40.
50 still needs some balancing, DPS Sages/Sorcerors can currently heal for more than intended due to the PVP stat buffing healing done but once you have some PVP gear it starts to get a lot more fun again.
Hutball has good potential, a few more hutball maps and some rated Warzones and they may have finally created a sport I am interested in.
The limit on 4 people in a premade is a huge improvement, A good team can still kick ass but premades are no longer only beatable once in a blue moon.
There are no arenas and no plans to include arena, which is a mixed blessing. Bribing people into arena by making the best gear come from there only was a terrible idea on Blizzards part, I only ever met 1 person who did arena for fun, everyone else did it to gear up so they could survive more than a few seconds in BGs (not implying there were not lots of people who enjoyed arena as there obviously were)
I served my time pillar humping s2-5 and have no desire to return to it.
But it is also a shame that the people who liked it dont have that option, question is, would an arena without best in slot gear rewards be popular enough.

Kelaan wrote:I realize this is a very small sample size, but is server balance completely hosed? Last I'd heard, it sounded like Republic was outnumbered by a large margin, which makes a pvp server (or a pvp zone) sound very daunting.


My server is heavily Empire biased and it can cause problems during the week, Ilum can be a nightmare as it will be 2 full raids of Imps camping the Rep base (which is a bloody stupid thing to do as they get less kills that way) but weekends are the scene of some pretty epic battles due to Ilum being instanced with a cap of 50 or so players per side per instance.
The actual zones a large, like, really large, so unless you go looking for trouble you can level up without much hassle.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Shyrtandros » Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:16 am

crazyharry wrote:There are no arenas and no plans to include arena, which is a mixed blessing. Bribing people into arena by making the best gear come from there only was a terrible idea on Blizzards part, I only ever met 1 person who did arena for fun, everyone else did it to gear up so they could survive more than a few seconds in BGs (not implying there were not lots of people who enjoyed arena as there obviously were)
I served my time pillar humping s2-5 and have no desire to return to it.
But it is also a shame that the people who liked it dont have that option, question is, would an arena without best in slot gear rewards be popular enough.


I would rank Arenas as one of the things I enjoyed the absolute most about WoW but I really don't think it would so well in SWTOR.

2v2 would make WoW look like the most balanced PvP ever due to Tank/DPS Hybrid & Heal/DPS hybrids rolling w/ taunt spams, guard, bubbles & HoTs being the ONLY viable team. For example my guildy and I run that in voidstar and we can not only survive but kill up to 5+ DPS focusing on either 1 of us due to just how crazy the synergy is.

If they were to only have maybe a 4v4 Arena I think it "Might" work. Truthfully I don't think there would be any real difference in group comp tho.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Kelaan » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:07 am

Barathorn wrote:I love the fact that DPS meters aren't more important than the gameplay and not standing in shit.

Honestly, I wish that a damage meter were available for all MMOs, and even single player games like Amalur or Borderlands. It's often abused to belittle other players, but at the same time it's tremendously helpful as a tool to recognize when I can play my class better. Ostensibly, every class has a DPS tree, and I'd like to ensure that I'm not a liability to my team by playing the jedi knight's single-sword DPS tree. (OK, actually, I'd roll Shadow. I think I've been converted, if I ever buy the game.)

Is there a combat log, at least, that lets one do postmortem logs of dps? :D
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:41 am

Kelaan wrote:Is there a combat log, at least, that lets one do postmortem logs of dps? :D

Nope.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:42 am

Barathorn wrote:That is purely personal taste Sabin and isn't true for every server from my experiances [EU Based]. While in general Empire is the more played faction [EU] there are several strong Republic servers and several where the balance is about the same.


You're saying there exists EU servers where Republic outnumbers Empire?
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Sagara » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:29 pm

Kelaan wrote:
Barathorn wrote:I love the fact that DPS meters aren't more important than the gameplay and not standing in shit.

Honestly, I wish that a damage meter were available for all MMOs, and even single player games like Amalur or Borderlands. It's often abused to belittle other players, but at the same time it's tremendously helpful as a tool to recognize when I can play my class better. Ostensibly, every class has a DPS tree, and I'd like to ensure that I'm not a liability to my team by playing the jedi knight's single-sword DPS tree. (OK, actually, I'd roll Shadow. I think I've been converted, if I ever buy the game.)

Is there a combat log, at least, that lets one do postmortem logs of dps? :D


You know, now that i'm playing dps a bit, I'd love that, at least for my own self. Nothing irritates me more than "I think I did well", without being able to really compare against something else. You know, like Mario Kart Ghosts of your past top runs?
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Arnock » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:29 pm

crazyharry wrote:<snip

1 - 49 PVP is great fun, classes are more evenly balanced even if scoundrels have to wait till 32 to get their class defing ability and shadows have to wait till 40.



Erm, maybe I didn't pay close enough attention at the trainer, but what 'class defining ability' do shadows get at 40?

Or scoundrels at 32, for that matter?
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Shyrtandros » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:10 am

Kelaan wrote:
Barathorn wrote:I love the fact that DPS meters aren't more important than the gameplay and not standing in shit.

Honestly, I wish that a damage meter were available for all MMOs, and even single player games like Amalur or Borderlands. It's often abused to belittle other players, but at the same time it's tremendously helpful as a tool to recognize when I can play my class better. Ostensibly, every class has a DPS tree, and I'd like to ensure that I'm not a liability to my team by playing the jedi knight's single-sword DPS tree. (OK, actually, I'd roll Shadow. I think I've been converted, if I ever buy the game.)

Is there a combat log, at least, that lets one do postmortem logs of dps? :D



Thus far there is no combat log at all which is really a pain.. I've put a lot of time into trying to talk to each DPS for my Operations. I can get a rough "idea" on if they're DPSing correctly, if they know the mechanics, proper resource management ect ect. Then try to get them to 'mentor' someone else.

There is one particular fight in Eternity Vault that is literally a 1 player vs. 1 boss duel. I stick myself on the glass cannon that 3 shots people with his special hit if you can't drop him super quick. Luckily since I'm usually done in the first 15 seconds it lets me run around and watch members do their 1v1.. There are always "repeats" of say 3x Spec A Marauders so I'll have all 3 gunslingers assigned to fight them and it lets me compare the players vs. eachother.

That fight alone has resulted in a handful of respecs and "Rotation changes" for the good of the group.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Kihra » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:03 am

Kelaan wrote:So, now that Star Wars: TOR has been out for a while, would you guys care to share what you like and dislike about it? Obviously you enjoy it enough to play that instead of WoW.

[*]What does SWTOR do better than WoW? What does it have that WoW is missing, or does poorly? I know some of you will say "no pandas" but as pandas don't seem to bother me, I'm looking for something more. ;)


The leveling experience for me was more enjoyable than WoW. This can mainly be attributed to the voice acting and the class quests. In many ways, the quests were actually far worse than the variety offered by WoW, and the phasing compared to WoW is also way more primitive. Your character having a voice, though, goes a long way.

Kelaan wrote:[*]What do you dislike about SWTOR? What are your biggest gripes? (And are these things which WoW does better, or is it something both do poorly at?)


The PvE endgame is an absolute disaster. It is just embarrassingly terrible. Gripes basically include:
(1) No reason to do HM Flashpoints, since normal mode Operations are so much easier.
(2) The normal mode loot system assigns loot to players and will do things like give two tank trinkets to DPS while the tank gets a DPS belt. It's just stupid. No way for non-PuG groups to turn this automatic assigning off.
(3) Hard Modes are just DPS checks. The mechanics of the fights are all so trivial that everything just boils down to a DPS check. Once you can meet it, you beat the Hard Mode.
(4) There is no reason to do Nightmare Mode. It drops the same loot as Hard Mode (supposedly it should drop slightly more Rakata gear, but in practice it doesn't).
(5) The Rakata gear is only 4 ilvls above the Columi gear. It is often poorly itemized compared to Columi, forcing you to mod hunt for mods from other classes' Rakata gear in order to fix the itemization problems in your own gear. There is little incentive to even acquire Rakata, given that it only makes you 5-10% better than Columi.
(6) Tons of raid bugs. Bugs with loot (don't turn on Master Looter!), huge bugs in Soa. They keep making Soa worse with each patch.

It doesn't bother me that much that the PvE content in this game is a joke, but there are so many dumb oversights that I have little faith that they're ever going to have a competitive PvE endgame.

I'm also very disappointed in class balance. For example, sorcerers/sages are just flat out better healers than the other two classes. Tank cooldowns aren't balanced. These differences don't matter that much since the content isn't hard, but if they ever do make difficult content, then balance will be more of an issue.

Kelaan wrote:[*]Do you play both WoW and SWTOR? (Or, if you have a wow subscription, is it only for D3 plus beta access to pandas?)


I play both WoW and SWTOR.

Kelaan wrote:[*]Did you swap to SWTOR because you had "finished" Cataclysm, or because the game just does a lot of things better? (if it does)


Just looking for something to play on WoW off nights.

Kelaan wrote:[*]If you PvP, what do you like better about the pvp than wow's? Aside from Huttball (which I admit seems a bit more fun than CTF), is there anything else? Is there an equivalent to arenas, or is it all larger group combat?


I find 1-49 PvP to be really fun, but at 50, it's a lot less fun.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Shyrtandros » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:25 am

Kihra wrote:
(3) Hard Modes are just DPS checks. The mechanics of the fights are all so trivial that everything just boils down to a DPS check. Once you can meet it, you beat the Hard Mode.
(4) There is no reason to do Nightmare Mode. It drops the same loot as Hard Mode (supposedly it should drop slightly more Rakata gear, but in practice it doesn't).


The only LOOT difference between Hardmode & Nightmare that we've found is that if you complete 5/5 bosses on Nightmare within 2 hours you will be awarded a title & a bonus loot chest with 1 to 3 "epic" mounts.
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Re: Star Wars; Old Republic

Postby Gracerath » Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:38 am

What does SWTOR do better than WoW? What does it have that WoW is missing, or does poorly? I know some of you will say "no pandas" but as pandas don't seem to bother me, I'm looking for something more. ;)


Story telling. Having spoken conversations with NPC's is a great change. It does get tedious doing them a 2nd and 3rd time with alts but at least you can skip them for the most part.

What do you dislike about SWTOR? What are your biggest gripes? (And are these things which WoW does better, or is it something both do poorly at?)


Non customizable UI. Terrible trade network. Poor end game content. I'm not too terribly concerned for the latter since it is a fairly new game and all that stuff will slowly get added over time.

Do you play both WoW and SWTOR? (Or, if you have a wow subscription, is it only for D3 plus beta access to pandas?)


I only play SWTOR.

Did you swap to SWTOR because you had "finished" Cataclysm, or because the game just does a lot of things better? (if it does)


I stopped playing WoW back at the start of summer last year. We raided firelands one time and I was done. I had a great time in WoW, I was just "done" with the game.

If you PvP, what do you like better about the pvp than wow's? Aside from Huttball (which I admit seems a bit more fun than CTF), is there anything else? Is there an equivalent to arenas, or is it all larger group combat?


I've been pvping a bit more lately in the sub-50's bracket. The fun pvp action is really to be had pre-50. The matches feel a bit more balanced. There doesn't feel like there are any 1 on 1 situations where you just get stunned/smoked in 5 seconds (Unless you're a fresh level 11 without your damage reduction abilities going against a much higher level). I actually really love Voidstar but that is not surprising since my favorite BG in WoW was Strand of the Ancients.

I realize this is a very small sample size, but is server balance completely hosed? Last I'd heard, it sounded like Republic was outnumbered by a large margin, which makes a pvp server (or a pvp zone) sound very daunting.


My server is very Empire heavy. There seems to be a small but active pvp community on the Republic side. It really feels kinda like playing Horde in BG's years ago. I win a majority of my Warzones since I've started playing them regularly. The only one I seem to lose basically all the time is Huttball but thankfully I don't get that one too often. I probably lose cause I don't play it often enough to really understand what is going on. Pass the ball, don't stand in the bad, yadda blah. I have not tried to do any of the Ilum stuff since the change. The few times I was out there doing PvE dailies, I saw in general chat about kill trading. Empire was pretty cool at allowing the Republic get their daily done the old way so I imagine they are being cool allowing the Republic getting it done the new way too. It kinda defeats the purpose of PvP but it is a shitty system and if that is how you gotta work it, then by all means.
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