[10H] Spine of Deathwing

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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Sundance » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:20 am

Alright, did our first 2 nights on this and we´re killing the first tendon.
So.. the next goal should be to soak up bloods with the Amalgation and roll them off. But we don´t have any or very few residues at that time, only the odd ~10 bloods alive. Should we AoE them with a Raid CD(or two) and then roll or should we not waste any time/CDs and just roll anyway?
Atm we´re only really killing the bloods we need to hit 9 stakcs on Amalgation.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:16 pm

We aoe them - entering second plate with no bloods makes it a heap cleaner. Took a few goes to stop people dying on the aoe, but it is doable safely.

We do on the 2nd->3rd as well, but we don't quite get back to zero bloods there.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:44 pm

Assuming the 2-2-2, do you guys do the blood cleanup/soaking after the 2nd and 4th lifts? And not really bother with killing extra bloods after the 1st and 3rd lifts? Or is there a more efficient way of not getting overwhelmed by bloods.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Sundance » Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:18 am

rijn dael wrote:We aoe them - entering second plate with no bloods makes it a heap cleaner. Took a few goes to stop people dying on the aoe, but it is doable safely.

We do on the 2nd->3rd as well, but we don't quite get back to zero bloods there.


We have a Prot Pala, Resto Shaman, Disc Priest - For Raid CDs. Would you use all of them every roll or give the Divine Guardian to AoE pulse from 9stacked Amals?
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:34 pm

@sundance, Our heals are rsham, hpal, rdruid - we use pretty much everything on the roll after Tendon2 - because we hit several 9stacked amalgs to roll them off, and take 1-2 ticks there. Otherwise there can be a few cds used on the first roll, and each tendon burn 9stack probably uses some short cds - the only point that is really risky for us though is the second roll, if the tank moves the amalgs in too early before the roll. Sometimes it doesn't seem to trigger quite as fast as other times, then something either wears off, or gets popped later than it should be because he is early etc.

@tim, we leave bloods to tank dps, except for the aoe+rolls after each tendon death (lifts 2 and 4). We also throw a bit of aoe in before each lift to ensure >9 available bloods.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby gomashon » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:05 am

anyone know how much damage must be done to break the stun (grip) on 25hc ?
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby rijn dael » Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:20 am

Wooo got it finally :-)

@gomashon, I haven't seen anyone post proof via logs, but it is somewhere between 15-20%.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby d07.RiV » Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:05 pm

After two weeks of trying it, we are consistently wiping somewhere after third lift for various reasons.

I got a few questions so far:
- How much time should ideally pass between lifts? For us its roughly 2 and a half minutes, and judging by average kill times that's a bit too much, since the blood tank (bear) is starting to get overwhelmed at this point.
- We are trying to kill as much blood as possible before barrel rolls; we have 1 add to charge after first roll and 2 after second (after a plate has been torn off). Should we kill another corruption after second roll and charge it as well, or that would just make matters worse (e.g. the roll wouldn't be finished when the remaining corruption grabs someone). Also, if we charge an add to 9 at this point its almost a guaranteed wipe - but someone mentioned here that they do it on purpose. I guess it would help if our dk tank gets 4pc..
- Regarding classes for tendon burst, we seem to have enough dps now. At the moment we are using arcane mage, ret paladin, demo warlock, sub rogue (my alt) and fury warrior, with everyone consistently doing over 1m damage to the tendon (on the contrary to what someone in one of the first posts said, demo warlock is often second or even first, though he gets FM and PI). We tried having tanks not damage the tendon on purpose (simulating one of the latter phases where they will be too busy with bloods) but the tendon ends up with like 5% hp left (looking at next weeks nerf)
- How do you charge the add before killing it? Currently we have the blood tank collect bloods somewhere in the middle, while the amalgamation is tanked near the plate. When it gets low, we switch to bloods, wait for the grip (which always comes at this point, we don't want the aoe to go off when one of the healers is grabbed) and the amalgamation tank makes a loop through the bloods. Obviously it's not the best way to do that, since the aoe ends up ticking a few times. We tried a couple different approaches, but since we are used to doing it the old (bad) way, we obviously had problems and still can't figure out the best way to do it.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:27 pm

My guild's also working on this buddy here, and we get to the fifth plate, so feel free to correct me too:].

d07.RiV wrote:- How much time should ideally pass between lifts? For us its roughly 2 and a half minutes, and judging by average kill times that's a bit too much, since the blood tank (bear) is starting to get overwhelmed at this point.

I'd aim for around 1-1.5 mins (1 min and 10 secs would be ideal) from the moment the armor plates snap back and open up again, which is approximately 2 grips. The general misconception is that the tendon DPS is all that matters, so people usually slack during the amalgamation to ensure they have their ICD's up and stuff, but killing the amalgamations in time is just as important so that your tanks don't get overwhelmed by bloods too early into the fight.
d07.RiV wrote:- We are trying to kill as much blood as possible before barrel rolls; we have 1 add to charge after first roll and 2 after second (after a plate has been torn off). Should we kill another corruption after second roll and charge it as well, or that would just make matters worse (e.g. the roll wouldn't be finished when the remaining corruption grabs someone). Also, if we charge an add to 9 at this point its almost a guaranteed wipe - but someone mentioned here that they do it on purpose. I guess it would help if our dk tank gets 4pc..

What we do is kill 2 more corruptions after we take out a tendon, which gives us a total of 3 amalgamations, while we kill the bloods for residues. Make sure your ranged DPS is killing the remaining corruption as you're rolling to break the grip AND to get that amalgamation up ASAP. The trick here is to begin the barrel roll as you kill the third corruption for the amalgamation and simply drag that amalgamation through the residues and have it thrown off.
d07.RiV wrote:- Regarding classes for tendon burst, we seem to have enough dps now. At the moment we are using arcane mage, ret paladin, demo warlock, sub rogue (my alt) and fury warrior, with everyone consistently doing over 1m damage to the tendon (on the contrary to what someone in one of the first posts said, demo warlock is often second or even first, though he gets FM and PI). We tried having tanks not damage the tendon on purpose (simulating one of the latter phases where they will be too busy with bloods) but the tendon ends up with like 5% hp left (looking at next weeks nerf)

You should definitely have the tanks help out in the first few lifts since you'll have lust/warp to carry you for the third tendon. I'm not sure how you coordinate your CD's, but we have 2 DPS use potions on first tendon, and 3 on the second, and lust/warp on the third. You DEFINITELY have the classes/specs for the tendons lol, those are like the best ones hehe. We also have a demWarlock, and he does decent damage, but we sometimes find ourselves waiting 10 secs for his Metamorphosis to come off CD.
d07.RiV wrote:- How do you charge the add before killing it? Currently we have the blood tank collect bloods somewhere in the middle, while the amalgamation is tanked near the plate. When it gets low, we switch to bloods, wait for the grip (which always comes at this point, we don't want the aoe to go off when one of the healers is grabbed) and the amalgamation tank makes a loop through the bloods. Obviously it's not the best way to do that, since the aoe ends up ticking a few times. We tried a couple different approaches, but since we are used to doing it the old (bad) way, we obviously had problems and still can't figure out the best way to do it.

We have our blood tank tank the bloods on the plate, a little further out because we noticed that sometimes the residues would be stuck 'under' the plate and not be used to charge lol. Our amalgamation tank tanks the amalgamations on the raid and when it gets to 10%, he simply runs to the armor and charges up. The main thing is not to have a grip DURING the tendon burning, and you can control this by either killing the corruption while the amalgamation is dying OR wait for a grip to be broken, then kill the amalgamation, and my guild chose to do the former.

Hope this helps.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby d07.RiV » Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:34 pm

Hmm if we reduce it to under 2 minutes, it would be a pretty large dps loss for ret, and possibly warrior.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Blitzago » Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:34 pm

If you don't reduce it down below 2 minutes, you won't make it to the final lift, cause you'll get over run.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby cncaudata » Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:26 pm

timoseewho wrote:We have our blood tank tank the bloods on the plate, a little further out because we noticed that sometimes the residues would be stuck 'under' the plate and not be used to charge lol. Our amalgamation tank tanks the amalgamations on the raid and when it gets to 10%, he simply runs to the armor and charges up.


We had hoped to do it this way, but when we killed bloods up by the plate, we found that the extra amalgamation would then get 4-5 stacks during the burn phase any time tanks were attacking the tendon. I still don't see a way around this, so we've been killing bloods back 10 yards.

One solution could possibly be having an add-on that accurately counts the number of bloods killed/absorbed, which I've seen in a large percentage of kill videos, but haven't been able to actually find anywhere. Does anyone have an add-on that does this?
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby timoseewho » Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:05 pm

cncaudata wrote:
timoseewho wrote:We have our blood tank tank the bloods on the plate, a little further out because we noticed that sometimes the residues would be stuck 'under' the plate and not be used to charge lol. Our amalgamation tank tanks the amalgamations on the raid and when it gets to 10%, he simply runs to the armor and charges up.


We had hoped to do it this way, but when we killed bloods up by the plate, we found that the extra amalgamation would then get 4-5 stacks during the burn phase any time tanks were attacking the tendon. I still don't see a way around this, so we've been killing bloods back 10 yards.

One solution could possibly be having an add-on that accurately counts the number of bloods killed/absorbed, which I've seen in a large percentage of kill videos, but haven't been able to actually find anywhere. Does anyone have an add-on that does this?

I use BigWigs and it counts residues fairly accurately.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby Cema » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:43 am

Spine of Deathwing

Burning Tendons health has been reduced by 15% in 10- and 25-player Heroic mode. This change eases the burst damage requirement to complete the encounter, which should allow players to make use of more varied raid compositions.
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Re: [10H] Spine of Deathwing

Postby warden » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:17 pm

DBM counts it accurately, but the option is turned off by default; just open the configuration and turn it on.

Re, 25H gripbreaking: We added it up over the course of 40+ logs, and came up with numbers between 355k-425k on average... it was impossible to determine an exact number. With the hotfix today though, that'll change again.
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