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[10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Belloc » Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:32 am

There's nothing wrong with having the raid stack up in it and handle it as you would on normal, as far as I'm aware.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby timoseewho » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:40 am

d07.RiV wrote:How often do onslaughts come? We only have a firemage that can survive it, one minute CD won't be enough will it?

Every 35 seconds or so.

When do you guys think is the most opportune time to lust/warp?
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Treck » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:54 pm

P2 when killing the drake?
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby rijn dael » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:15 pm

We use it to burn gariona, or we lose people (healing falling behind). The healing once gariona bails has been managable, we just seem to enjoy wiping to things like.. "Guys, I fell off the side". /cry
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby timoseewho » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:53 pm

We gave this fella a couple hours of attempts last night and I have to say we got our butts kicked lol. We never made it to P2 and usually wiped between the second and third sets of drakes. What would usually happen is the ship would get to 15% before the third set of drakes. We always killed the first and second sets of drakes the first time they got harpooned. Is it extremely important to kill the drakes the first pass? Does not killing a drake during the first pass really set you behind? Also, we sometimes had 1 ground dude (low HP) up when the next set spawned, but that should be fixed next week with a Rogue. Our setup goes like this:

Tanks-Paladin, Druid
DPS-Death Knight, elemental Shaman, Priest, survival Hunter, Warlocksx2 (both can be any of the three specs, which do you all think is the best for this?)
Heals-Druid, Shaman

We divide the ship up into 4 quadrants and assign two players to each one to soak the barrages (one of the quadrants gets left out kinda since we don't have enough soakers). We deal with the onslaughts first with Dispersion, then Argent Defender, then group, then Dispersion again, then plan on group again, is there a better way to soak this? Again, it seems like our ship just gets too low too fast, is there anyway to see how bad our people are at soaking barrages, lol? Thanks!
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby madmessias » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:28 am

timoseewho wrote:We gave this fella a couple hours of attempts last night and I have to say we got our butts kicked lol. We never made it to P2 and usually wiped between the second and third sets of drakes. What would usually happen is the ship would get to 15% before the third set of drakes. We always killed the first and second sets of drakes the first time they got harpooned. Is it extremely important to kill the drakes the first pass? Does not killing a drake during the first pass really set you behind? Also, we sometimes had 1 ground dude (low HP) up when the next set spawned, but that should be fixed next week with a Rogue. Our setup goes like this:

Tanks-Paladin, Druid
DPS-Death Knight, elemental Shaman, Priest, survival Hunter, Warlocksx2 (both can be any of the three specs, which do you all think is the best for this?)
Heals-Druid, Shaman

We divide the ship up into 4 quadrants and assign two players to each one to soak the barrages (one of the quadrants gets left out kinda since we don't have enough soakers). We deal with the onslaughts first with Dispersion, then Argent Defender, then group, then Dispersion again, then plan on group again, is there a better way to soak this? Again, it seems like our ship just gets too low too fast, is there anyway to see how bad our people are at soaking barrages, lol? Thanks!

Check your damage taken from someone, then click on the Twil. Barrage spell (or whatever its called) then see how many times each player got hit.
(or just post logs)
edit:
lol bored

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/sez9 ... boss=56427 :p
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby timoseewho » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:06 pm

Thanks^, I think next week we're gonna try having the ranged/heal stack up behind the 2 ground adds to prevent them from charging and group soak all the onslaughts, hopefully that'll help.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Kishandra » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:25 pm

timoseewho wrote:Thanks^, I think next week we're gonna try having the ranged/heal stack up behind the 2 ground adds to prevent them from charging and group soak all the onslaughts, hopefully that'll help.


Might be better off solo-soaking onslaughts if you can.

I know that when we group up for onslaught, we let at least 4 barrages slide. If you are even able to soak two of those while someone solo soaks the onslaught, you come out ahead in the ship hp department.

FWIW, our warlocks went affliction (although if your warlocks are destro and use the 15% damage transfer thing on goriona as she flies across when the fight starts, I've heard she lands instantly in phase 2 (since she's at like 75% already).
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby madmessias » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:46 pm

Great fight, didn't kill it but got to see p2 atleast, if anyone can see anything we maybe missed by checking our logs, it would be helpful.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-l4j2msyhhhw5rnkp/

Had mage+priest soak first one, raid second, mage third, priest fourth. the DK tank is an offspecc tank since our normal tank couldn't attend.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby rijn dael » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:58 pm

timoseewho wrote:We always killed the first and second sets of drakes the first time they got harpooned. Is it extremely important to kill the drakes the first pass? Does not killing a drake during the first pass really set you behind?


We haven't killed yet, but our strat is sound - just waiting on people to get back from break, and it should die.

We started progression with:
First set - full cd's (except lust - pre-dotting on the initial pass over is huge).
Second set - lusted.
Third set - burn one, ignore other.

Once we started hitting p2, peoples overall competency was increased, so we changed things -
First set - No cd's on the first set (predot benefit is huge - they come down with 20-30% hp each on the first wave).
Second set - use cd's, burn both - again, predot is huge - they come down closer to 50% hp this wave.
Third set - burn one, ignore other.

Notes-
The pre-dot on the pass over is so huge because the dpct efficiency, when dots are able to fully expire while they are out of range, it can't be overstated how much this helps.

The faster you kill the drakes, the less bolts at the ship, which gives you more dps time, which gives you faster dead drakes - win>win>win>win :) If they aren't going to *both* die before they run away, you are better off only killing one. You don't *need* both dead in wave 2/3 - but it makes things easier. You should never have trouble with both in wave 1.

I believe the sapper spawns are directly related to how many drakes fly away - but I haven't seen anyone else mention this, or confirm this - we just noticed based off our fraps, and other peoples. Doesn't really impact how you do it, and it feels a bit like 'onyxia deep breathes more when x'.

hth
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby cncaudata » Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:21 am

So we've been working on this for 2 nights now and have had the worst time getting a strategy down for soaking barrages and onslaughts while avoiding charge. It seems that every attempt there's some point where a pair of people in a barrage get charged at exactly the same time and one-shot, or one person accidentally solos a barrage because they thought the other person would be there.

We're currently trying to do Cauterize, Disperse, Cauterize, Raid-stack, Disperse, Cauterize/Stack for onslaughts, and these go very well (when the mage or spriest have not been one-shot yet).

We have melee (2 tanks + rogue) in the Port/Bow corner, handling that square of the ship's deck. Ranged in the Starboard/Bow corner, 1Ranged/1Healer in each of the Stern quarters, and 1 ranged floater.

How are other people managing to soak barrages while avoiding charges/fire? Especially those of you that stack for more onslaughts... I don't know how it's possible to get enough barrages at the same time. Is there a better place to tank the adds to make charge easier to avoid? Does anyone have a system for getting the right people in barrages? I kind of feel like this is the same as sons on Rag - where the team just has to get used to knowing where other people will be and adapting to the randomness...
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby madmessias » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:35 am

cncaudata wrote:So we've been working on this for 2 nights now and have had the worst time getting a strategy down for soaking barrages and onslaughts while avoiding charge. It seems that every attempt there's some point where a pair of people in a barrage get charged at exactly the same time and one-shot, or one person accidentally solos a barrage because they thought the other person would be there.

We're currently trying to do Cauterize, Disperse, Cauterize, Raid-stack, Disperse, Cauterize/Stack for onslaughts, and these go very well (when the mage or spriest have not been one-shot yet).

We have melee (2 tanks + rogue) in the Port/Bow corner, handling that square of the ship's deck. Ranged in the Starboard/Bow corner, 1Ranged/1Healer in each of the Stern quarters, and 1 ranged floater.

How are other people managing to soak barrages while avoiding charges/fire? Especially those of you that stack for more onslaughts... I don't know how it's possible to get enough barrages at the same time. Is there a better place to tank the adds to make charge easier to avoid? Does anyone have a system for getting the right people in barrages? I kind of feel like this is the same as sons on Rag - where the team just has to get used to knowing where other people will be and adapting to the randomness...


Go with this instead on onslaughts

1st=mage+priest
2nd=raid (there's no small bombs during this time so you won't miss those)
3=mage
4=priest
5=don't get it. :)

Maybe you are just soaking to many barrages, you don't have to soak nearly all of them. Make sure they communicate aswell, if one guy got a stack he can't take them ofcourse.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby timoseewho » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:41 pm

My guild is debating between taking advantage of our fire Mage, shadow Priest, and combat Rogue to soak or just doing group soaks. Would the above recommendation of soaking be better for my raid than doing groups? What are the ups and downsides? My questions are, how much damage should the ship take if we group soak (all 10)? How much damage should the ship take with a Dispersion or Cauterize, and even Rogue stuff?
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby Kishandra » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:32 am

Onslaught does roughly 20% of ship's damage, divided evenly amongst those who soak it. The ship itself counts as a "person" when doing the split. So, for example, an unsoaked onslaught deals 20% damage to the ship, with 1 person soaking it does 10%, with 9 people soaking, it does 2%, etc.

As you can see, the benefit of having more people in the onslaught rapidly decrease, especially when they could absorb a 3% barrage outside the onslaught alone.

The above soaking system would require the priest to glyph dispersion, and I would use the mage to soak the 5th one as well (why not save 10% on the ship's hp? /shrug), but it looks perfectly fine.

The upsides to solosoaking: higher dps (less movement for most of the raid), higher survivability/less damage going around, significantly lower chances of a large portion of the raid eating charge (or even double charges), along with other intangibles of not having to move.

Downsides: well, not that much, really. If you soak two barrages while an onslaught is coming down, you more or less break even on ship hp%, but if you can't do that (2nd onslaught happens when drakes are coming in and not shooting barrages yet, for example), then it's a loss of ship hp.
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Re: [10H] Warmaster Blackhorn

Postby McHayes » Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:31 am

Our group has been pulling off some tries with solo soaking, it brought a massive downside in the form of faster and more fire on the ship, leaving zero space to move to before the 3rd wave is supposed to be landing.

As Kishandra stated the workings of onslaught, the ship takes a lot more dmg early on which causes more fires to spawn.

I suggest taking something like;
1; raid
2; solo
3; solo
4; raid
5; solo
Sirq - Warrior Tank
Mchayes - Paladin Tank
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