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[10H] Ragnaros

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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby Kitmajere » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:27 am

They should be able to both pick up their Scion and stun. In my experience, the Scion activates slightly before the adds do, so you have time to FF/heroic throw them, and then get your stuns off where needed.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby Andover » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:27 am

Remember that the Son's of Scion are stunnable as well. I pick mine up, get to where I need to stun adds so a DPS can take two, I then run to the furthest away and blow it up to 50% then take the son to the middle and get ready to tank Rag. That whole time the son has maybe hit me a hand full of times and has some chasing to do to get back to me after I've Holy Wrath'd.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby rijn dael » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:35 pm

Based off the comment about mages blinking in for seeds, we got our warlocks doing something similar with portals - seems to make a huge difference (1-1.3m damage per meta, up from 500-600k - in 25).

They run in a larger arc than the raid does, so that their seeds drop further away - once the seed explosion hits, they portal from the bubble to the main aoe pack, and party ;)

Would work just as well for anyone with melee aoe though - it just requires a speed boost (or druid roar) to do a large enough arc - and gives safety on the seeds - even if you can't blink back into them.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby fafhrd » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:58 am

Yeah, we're having our lock go into melee and meta the first set of seeds, while I save my rapid fires for the 2nd and 3rd sets of seeds. If we get a 4th, his meta is up for it again.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby timoseewho » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:22 pm

Does anyone have a video or can briefly go through where the Mage/Warlock would stand with respect to the group to do the blinking/porting to the elementals? I'm assuming the strategy being utilized here is the 'stand on a far corner in melee, then run to the center for seeds, then start kiting to the far opposite end' way. We've been trying to have our Warlock do this but he always ends up being out-run by the elementals lol. Can these elementals be knock backed when they have the buff from being close to each other? I'm not sure in these videos if the bDruids chose to glyph it out:\.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby rijn dael » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:05 pm

I haven't frapsed it, but we run an arc from left to right etc (as per most peoples strat). We pop druid roars at about 4sec, and warlocks / mages run a larger arc to the new position, while the majority of the raid runs along the edge of the lava at about 3sec. *Everyone* makes it into the same point on the far side prior to the seeds popping for aoe cooldowns.

This spawns the warlock fixated seeds further away than the rest of the raids seeds, so the warlocks can simply portal into the middle of the raids seeds and aoe without danger.

Hope that explains it? You can't control the seeds to avoid them killing your warlock, he just has to move right - but if done right, there is no risk (I play on oceanic lag of 300ms - and have never died to a seed catching me).

Will see if I can fraps it tonight ;)
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby timoseewho » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:52 pm

rijn dael wrote:I haven't frapsed it, but we run an arc from left to right etc (as per most peoples strat). We pop druid roars at about 4sec, and warlocks / mages run a larger arc to the new position, while the majority of the raid runs along the edge of the lava at about 3sec. *Everyone* makes it into the same point on the far side prior to the seeds popping for aoe cooldowns.

This spawns the warlock fixated seeds further away than the rest of the raids seeds, so the warlocks can simply portal into the middle of the raids seeds and aoe without danger.

Hope that explains it? You can't control the seeds to avoid them killing your warlock, he just has to move right - but if done right, there is no risk (I play on oceanic lag of 300ms - and have never died to a seed catching me).

Will see if I can fraps it tonight ;)

I'd really appreciate the vid but thanks for the explanation. I took a quick minute to draw how we do it with our Warlock:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/193/warlockhx.jpg/
Basically the raid starts at the left-most circle (blue, labeled 1), then starts moving towards the center circle (red, labeled 3) as the seed timer hits 0. We usually end up dropping our seeds to the right of the left-most one (green, labeled 2). Our Warlock drops his alone at the far end at position 1 of the arc and runs to position 2 to not take too much AoE damage from the seeds bursting then ports to the green circle and starts Hellfire'ing as the raid continues to run through the red circle and straight into the end. Is this more or less how you guys do it?
Last edited by timoseewho on Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby rijn dael » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:12 pm

Yeah, yours is a scaled down version of how we do it - oceanic latency means we run a larger distance - both to smooth the pack by the time it reaches us, and to ensure we are well and truely moving before they spawn.

If you continued your numbering from 1 to 5, we would run from 1 to 4, with warlock portals on 3. Seeds spawn roughly to the left of 3. Warlocks do the same sort of arc as you draw, but a bit smoother because they have to make it further than yours need to.
We then group up on 5 after world in flames, and repeat the process running back to 2, so that warlocks don't need to reposition their portals (this time seeds will spawn slightly to the right of 3.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby timoseewho » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:11 am

rijn dael wrote:Yeah, yours is a scaled down version of how we do it - oceanic latency means we run a larger distance - both to smooth the pack by the time it reaches us, and to ensure we are well and truely moving before they spawn.

If you continued your numbering from 1 to 5, we would run from 1 to 4, with warlock portals on 3. Seeds spawn roughly to the left of 3. Warlocks do the same sort of arc as you draw, but a bit smoother because they have to make it further than yours need to.
We then group up on 5 after world in flames, and repeat the process running back to 2, so that warlocks don't need to reposition their portals (this time seeds will spawn slightly to the right of 3.

I see! I've updated the drawing, and I see the general idea now, thanks!
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/70 ... rlock.jpg/
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby rijn dael » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:13 pm

Looking a lot more like it :)

We are still taking four sets of seeds to reach 40%, so we have improvement to go in our handling of this, but your main raid will end up doing some running and gunning over to 6, and maybe a bit further as the seeds close in on you.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby Adornus » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:48 am

Looks like everyone is having the same issues we are - seeds in P2. We tried the spread out method and then each person collapse to the six dots around Rag. This didn't work at all. We've come to the conclusion that the AoE method has to be used. I'm liking the diagram that timoseewho put up. How successful are people with this method?

We're having no problem with people getting through P1 (although we keep pushing a trap at 71% - more DPS needed). Healer mana is good (both around 75% at end of P1). Transition is also fine. It's these damn seeds that are giving us trouble.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby fafhrd » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:47 pm

Adornus wrote:Looks like everyone is having the same issues we are - seeds in P2. We tried the spread out method and then each person collapse to the six dots around Rag. This didn't work at all. We've come to the conclusion that the AoE method has to be used. I'm liking the diagram that timoseewho put up. How successful are people with this method?

We're having no problem with people getting through P1 (although we keep pushing a trap at 71% - more DPS needed). Healer mana is good (both around 75% at end of P1). Transition is also fine. It's these damn seeds that are giving us trouble.


P2 seemed to become pretty reasonable for us once we added in the moonkin, but we only did a couple of pulls with that setup before having to end for the week. P2 is definitely much harder than P1 or the first sets of sons though.

The problem for us with non-aoe setups was healing - if we didn't group up we couldn't heal people efficiently enough through the explosion, and if we group up for the explosion the sons were going to be grouped so we had to do some aoe anyway. The only other viable alternative we could survive is spreading out for spawns, grouping up for explosion, and then spreading out again while killing the sons, but that was about as much movement as the plain aoe strat, had more issues with lava waves, and while some classes killed their elementals fine others had just as much issue, and there was a lot of melee damage to heal up on people who might be out of range of a healer or two.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby rijn dael » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:33 pm

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/971 ... ag-Nerfed/

Haven't seen confirmed details other than HP nerf - but theres comments saying the sons lost some hp, and move slower.
Should help, but it is sad to not kill prenerf :(
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby fafhrd » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:24 am

He used to be 87.5M hp from my screenshots, MMOChamp says 74.2M now. Should make things a fair bit simpler for us and everyone else still working on P2-P3.

I imagine the timing sucks for people who were closing in on kills though.
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Re: [10H] Ragnaros

Postby Treck » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:08 am

The nerf isnt unjustified, but there should have been some warning rather than just stealthnerfing him like that.
Kinda came out of the blue.

I still think p2 is holsing most guilds back, but atleast now the dps race in p3 isnt very hard anymore, so you will get right past that phase and into p4 with 2 meteors every time now.
Pushing one meteor is possible now aswell, not sure how "hard" it is but i beleave its not for everyone, i guess most guilds who have killed rag by now is capable of doing so tho (especially in 10man)
P4 is gonna be a bit of a joke tho :S
As its the last 5-10% dreadflame goes out of control, now he is dead when he reaches the "old" 7-8%, meaning dreadflame shouldne be much of an issue eather.

I really didnt think a HP nerf was the best, and especially not so much. Its 15% less hp, 5% would have made a big differance, this is completely gamechanging.
I think they could have nerfed him slightly a few times, wonder how many kills were gonna see this week, its a big failure from blizz side if the number doubles up from about 50 pre "nerf".
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