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[10H] Majordomo Staghelm

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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Brosterr » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:51 am

Sophotrates wrote:We're probably going to try this boss later this week (6% Ryolith hc wipe) and was wondering what CD's you use. Never thought that you could solo survive a scythe with just normal CD's, not even a first scythe.


Sorry i have been out of town so late response. GoAK, Glyphed DP and a SAC. I dont eve drop below 40%. The only reason i dont use the TB trink is because i dont use it. I use a Alys type set for this fight because Domo hits like a wuss. The reason i take 3 hits is because as i stated before, i can. It is a never fail also because after AS procs all we need is our mage to blink out and we are g2g. I never soak again because at that point it is completely pointless.


[edited by Worldie - Language please]
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Darielle » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:40 am

Well, I think most would agree that something that feels this cheesy as the last boss before Ragnaros Heroic is exactly that: Broken. Comparing it to say, Cho'gall heroic (dropped tier11 Heroic shoulders), where there was definitely a gimmick involved with the corrupted blood mage, Cho'gall was still a challenge and an exciting kill.


It's not really broken though. It's a fight with a phase that makes everyone take damage, and a phase that makes him play Jack the Jackrabbit, where you can't infinitely keep him in a phase, shifing him more often results in additional mechanics to handle (e.g. 2 sets of Seeds/Orbs) and you want to take damage the least number of times as possible. The "strat" flows naturally out of it - like like say Twin Valks flows naturally as a "clump" with a couple of people soaking. Staghelm's still a fun fight, even if it doesn't have quite the chaos of, say, your first pulls of Heroic Beth/Omnotron.

Now, AD as a "strat" WAS broken, because it relied on a gimmick that only one tank could do, and the fight was tuned too hard at the time.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Jaitee » Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:03 pm

downed this fight 2 nights ago after 2 nights of working on it

and what i want to know is how the hell did people tank this before the threat buff i was being chased on threat for the entire first scorp phase even using a golemblood potion i had all of our people who sat out constantly catching me we had a mage a hunter and a ret pally stay out the mage and hunter just used their threat drop mechanics but the ret pally had to self salv and have me salv him even then it was hairy

also by the end of the fight i was only about 20% above the highest threat player (our spriest IIRC) which means without the threat buff he would have pulled many times over even with chain salvs and i did a good amount of dps too i ranked 176th on WoL for prot pallys so its not like i wasnt doing my job
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Darielle » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:28 pm

You end up hitting the threat cap on Staghelm by the end of the fight so people will inevitably creep up at the end. People managed before the threat buff by using aggro drops and bombing Salvs on classes with no aggro drop.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=32003&start=15
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Jaitee » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:13 am

found out why after the threat hotfix i was still struggling with threat at the start of this fight apparently you had to refresh righteous fury after the hotifx in order for your threat to be adjusted and i hadnt changed specs or cancelled RF in about a month so did a quick test (just looking at omen and recount on random world mobs) and found that i was still getting triple my damage in threat recast RF and was at 5 times so next week ill no longer have to get everyone to chain their threat drops at the start
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby fafhrd » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:14 am

Darielle wrote:
Well, I think most would agree that something that feels this cheesy as the last boss before Ragnaros Heroic is exactly that: Broken. Comparing it to say, Cho'gall heroic (dropped tier11 Heroic shoulders), where there was definitely a gimmick involved with the corrupted blood mage, Cho'gall was still a challenge and an exciting kill.


It's not really broken though. It's a fight with a phase that makes everyone take damage, and a phase that makes him play Jack the Jackrabbit, where you can't infinitely keep him in a phase, shifing him more often results in additional mechanics to handle (e.g. 2 sets of Seeds/Orbs) and you want to take damage the least number of times as possible. The "strat" flows naturally out of it - like like say Twin Valks flows naturally as a "clump" with a couple of people soaking. Staghelm's still a fun fight, even if it doesn't have quite the chaos of, say, your first pulls of Heroic Beth/Omnotron.


Broken or not, it does very strange things to the difficulty progression for the instance. There are people killing heroic domo as their 2nd heroic kill on both 10 AND 25 thanks to skipping all scythes. It's obviously not possible to prove that this is not the intended progression sequence, but it's not surprising some people think it isn't.

Nef was another fight where you could choose how long each phase lasts, and you could make the fight a fair bit simpler by not killing ads and keeping him in the Air for a long long time, so that your P3 kiter didn't really need to learn how to kite - you traded harder healing and losing all your melee DPS in p2 for easier fight mechanics and a trivialized P3. Blizzard promptly put a stop to that strat by making him land as soon as he's taken 15% damage in P2.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Belloc » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:19 am

fafhrd wrote:
Darielle wrote:
Well, I think most would agree that something that feels this cheesy as the last boss before Ragnaros Heroic is exactly that: Broken. Comparing it to say, Cho'gall heroic (dropped tier11 Heroic shoulders), where there was definitely a gimmick involved with the corrupted blood mage, Cho'gall was still a challenge and an exciting kill.


It's not really broken though. It's a fight with a phase that makes everyone take damage, and a phase that makes him play Jack the Jackrabbit, where you can't infinitely keep him in a phase, shifing him more often results in additional mechanics to handle (e.g. 2 sets of Seeds/Orbs) and you want to take damage the least number of times as possible. The "strat" flows naturally out of it - like like say Twin Valks flows naturally as a "clump" with a couple of people soaking. Staghelm's still a fun fight, even if it doesn't have quite the chaos of, say, your first pulls of Heroic Beth/Omnotron.


Broken or not, it does very strange things to the difficulty progression for the instance. There are people killing heroic domo as their 2nd heroic kill on both 10 AND 25 thanks to skipping all scythes. It's obviously not possible to prove that this is not the intended progression sequence, but it's not surprising some people think it isn't.

Nef was another fight where you could choose how long each phase lasts, and you could make the fight a fair bit simpler by not killing ads and keeping him in the Air for a long long time, so that your P3 kiter didn't really need to learn how to kite - you traded harder healing and losing all your melee DPS in p2 for easier fight mechanics and a trivialized P3. Blizzard promptly put a stop to that strat by making him land as soon as he's taken 15% damage in P2.

I'm pretty sure he lands after a set amount of time, not damage. Otherwise the achievement would be impossible, as you are required to do 20% damage to him before he lands.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby fafhrd » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:24 am

Belloc wrote:
fafhrd wrote:
Darielle wrote:
It's not really broken though. It's a fight with a phase that makes everyone take damage, and a phase that makes him play Jack the Jackrabbit, where you can't infinitely keep him in a phase, shifing him more often results in additional mechanics to handle (e.g. 2 sets of Seeds/Orbs) and you want to take damage the least number of times as possible. The "strat" flows naturally out of it - like like say Twin Valks flows naturally as a "clump" with a couple of people soaking. Staghelm's still a fun fight, even if it doesn't have quite the chaos of, say, your first pulls of Heroic Beth/Omnotron.


Broken or not, it does very strange things to the difficulty progression for the instance. There are people killing heroic domo as their 2nd heroic kill on both 10 AND 25 thanks to skipping all scythes. It's obviously not possible to prove that this is not the intended progression sequence, but it's not surprising some people think it isn't.

Nef was another fight where you could choose how long each phase lasts, and you could make the fight a fair bit simpler by not killing ads and keeping him in the Air for a long long time, so that your P3 kiter didn't really need to learn how to kite - you traded harder healing and losing all your melee DPS in p2 for easier fight mechanics and a trivialized P3. Blizzard promptly put a stop to that strat by making him land as soon as he's taken 15% damage in P2.

I'm pretty sure he lands after a set amount of time, not damage. Otherwise the achievement would be impossible, as you are required to do 20% damage to him before he lands.


He definitely lands based on damage, not time, and yes, this change made the otherwise simple achievement a bitch to do. I posted about it a while back, but to do the achievement you need to do something like get Nef to 64% or below before Ony dies in P1, and then burn him to 49% - that's 15%, so he starts landing. The achievement requires he be below 50% by the time he decides to start landing, not anything about 20%.

We did the achievement before the HP nerfs, and waste a lot of time and one reset to not pushing him below 65% on the pull and getting screwed by his landing decision after 15%, since even though he's in the air flying dying, getting him to below 50% before he decides to start landing is the what you have to do.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby fafhrd » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:27 am

Darielle wrote:Slashlove - Kilrogg;


Holy shit, you're the girl with the handle-bars from the R&D forums!

~<3
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Darielle » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:12 pm

Nef was both. If you didn't kill the phase in 3 minutes, he would land anyway. He also chose to land the moment you killed the first add (on Heroic) and 3rd add (on normal).

Of course, phase 2 being basically the hardest part of the fight and with how you could get pretty much triplescrewed by Cinders if you chose to prolong the phase, staying in the phase longer was definitely not ideal.

Broken or not, it does very strange things to the difficulty progression for the instance. There are people killing heroic domo as their 2nd heroic kill on both 10 AND 25 thanks to skipping all scythes. It's obviously not possible to prove that this is not the intended progression sequence, but it's not surprising some people think it isn't.


Honestly? I don't know how much of it is just hype. Especially on 10-man, Baleroc, Alys and Rhyo aren't exactly hard but you give a guild that hates Rhyo because they find driving "random" and who has one healer who basically doesn't understand Spark/Flame so he keeps getting them killed or whatever, and tell them that Staghelm is easy, all you have to do is dodge Leaping Flames, and they'll head straight to it, kill it and then go back to Rhyolith and complain about how random it is.

Or they'll go to Heroic Staghelm, find out none of their ranged/healers can dodge Leaping Flames, keep dying to Orbs, and then complain about that ^.^.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Rokh » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:14 pm

Jaitee wrote:downed this fight 2 nights ago after 2 nights of working on it

and what i want to know is how the hell did people tank this before the threat buff i was being chased on threat for the entire first scorp phase even using a golemblood potion i had all of our people who sat out constantly catching me we had a mage a hunter and a ret pally stay out the mage and hunter just used their threat drop mechanics but the ret pally had to self salv and have me salv him even then it was hairy

also by the end of the fight i was only about 20% above the highest threat player (our spriest IIRC) which means without the threat buff he would have pulled many times over even with chain salvs and i did a good amount of dps too i ranked 176th on WoL for prot pallys so its not like i wasnt doing my job


I swear i read a blue post where they stated that a fight mechanic of heroic domo is the tank actualy generates less threat than normal..... i swear that was somewhere, ill have to look for it.

edit- blue post on mmo
Staghelm
•threat generated in this encounter is reduced in Heroic difficulty.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Belloc » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:32 am

Rokh wrote:
Jaitee wrote:downed this fight 2 nights ago after 2 nights of working on it

and what i want to know is how the hell did people tank this before the threat buff i was being chased on threat for the entire first scorp phase even using a golemblood potion i had all of our people who sat out constantly catching me we had a mage a hunter and a ret pally stay out the mage and hunter just used their threat drop mechanics but the ret pally had to self salv and have me salv him even then it was hairy

also by the end of the fight i was only about 20% above the highest threat player (our spriest IIRC) which means without the threat buff he would have pulled many times over even with chain salvs and i did a good amount of dps too i ranked 176th on WoL for prot pallys so its not like i wasnt doing my job


I swear i read a blue post where they stated that a fight mechanic of heroic domo is the tank actualy generates less threat than normal..... i swear that was somewhere, ill have to look for it.

edit- blue post on mmo
Staghelm
•threat generated in this encounter is reduced in Heroic difficulty.


That was a change made because DPS were out-threating tanks due to the concentration mechanic. Tanks have always generated the proper amount of threat on this fight -- it's DPS who were generating too much threat.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Bellante » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:21 am

[quote="fafhrd"

He definitely lands based on damage, not time, and yes, this change made the otherwise simple achievement a bitch to do. I posted about it a while back, but to do the achievement you need to do something like get Nef to 64% or below before Ony dies in P1, and then burn him to 49% - that's 15%, so he starts landing. The achievement requires he be below 50% by the time he decides to start landing, not anything about 20%.
[/quote]

Seem to recall that if you get the 70% crackle before Onyxia dies, she gets full energy bar and wipes the raid, so you'd have to time her kill with nef being at 70.2% or so, then switch to nuking him and taking a crackle during the phase switch, which to most people would be a fairly nasty thing to do.

It does explain why we were unable to get the achievement recently though, we went in on normal mode and popped BL while keeping the last add alive, and nuking him. For some reason, we didn't nuke hard enough, so he set feet on the ground at about 51%, leaving us feeling rather embarrassed, and perplexed at to what the hell went wrong.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby fafhrd » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:44 am

Bellante wrote:
fafhrd wrote:
He definitely lands based on damage, not time, and yes, this change made the otherwise simple achievement a bitch to do. I posted about it a while back, but to do the achievement you need to do something like get Nef to 64% or below before Ony dies in P1, and then burn him to 49% - that's 15%, so he starts landing. The achievement requires he be below 50% by the time he decides to start landing, not anything about 20%.


Seem to recall that if you get the 70% crackle before Onyxia dies, she gets full energy bar and wipes the raid, so you'd have to time her kill with nef being at 70.2% or so, then switch to nuking him and taking a crackle during the phase switch, which to most people would be a fairly nasty thing to do.

It does explain why we were unable to get the achievement recently though, we went in on normal mode and popped BL while keeping the last add alive, and nuking him. For some reason, we didn't nuke hard enough, so he set feet on the ground at about 51%, leaving us feeling rather embarrassed, and perplexed at to what the hell went wrong.


IIRC our strat was something like timing her death to be during the last crackle cast, so she's dead just before it goes off - then burning him down 6% before he's in position to take off.

Even if he'd landed his feet on the ground at 49%, you'd still fail btw, the achievement seems to count "landing" as beginning as soon as he's gone down 15%, not actually touching the ground, so the damage done while he's flying down doesn't count - you basically fail the achievement as soon as lifts off the ground with more than 64% HP. We got him below 49% before his feet touched the ground our first week, didn't notice that the achievement tracker was red, killed him, and were annoyed at having wasted the week.
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Re: [10H] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Andover » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:49 am

Just wondering if this is the Heroic Nef fight thread or really the 10 HM Domo thread? :roll:
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