[10 HM] Beth'tilac

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[10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby Brosterr » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:57 am

So we put in 15 or so attempts yesterday on Beth'tilac HC. It didn't go great, but we definitely figured some things out as we went along. I am looking for some advice from anyone that has put in wipes on this fight to help cut down on our learning curve. (Only looking for help from a 10 man perspective)

Because of gear, doing this fight on reg was faceroll for us from the start. I say that because honestly the order in which we killed things never really mattered. I could tell after our first pull on HM that you have to absolutely micromanage DPS on this fight, or at least that is how it seemed.

Before commenting on this post, understand that we know how to wipe, we know we are going to wipe, we did not expect this to be easy. This post is to see if, with some help, I can eliminate some of our attempts through others experiences.

Here was the comp from last night (we also have a Boomkin and Fury War available, which one or both will be there for the next attempts)

Tanks
Prot Pal (on the bottom)
DK (up top)

Healers
H Pal (on the bottom, helping with taunts)
R Druid (on the bottom, watching bomb exploders)
R Sham (up top)

DPS (we changed this so much with dps from pull to pull I won't say what each person did, I will just generalize some of our strats/ideas)
Rogue
Ret Pal
MM Hunter
Mage
S Priest

We started with our rogue up top, did this for 5 or so pulls. Put hunter, spriest and mage (as fire) on spiders. Had the mage and hunter splitting the bomb job. Ret killed spinners>drone. What we found very fast about this was that the spinners rape, this way it worked where the first 2 died before anything happened, the the next 4 died pretty slowly (by slowly i mean not instant, and the damage was so high i assume they need to die as they drop).

We then moved the rogue down, knowing we were not going to get a kill, so we wanted to see how to eliminate as much damage as possible. This worked well with spinners, they died fast (3 ranged on spiders, 2 mele on spinners>drones), easy p1, or easy enough, but obviously a cheese method we couldn't keep up.

Next we pulled the mage off of the spiders to see how they 2 ranged did, mage was arc and spinners and drones fell fast as shit, obv. Spiders were a little bit of an issue, they died, but it usually required me to kite the drone and have mele leave for spiders when i began kiting. This most likely was do to the fact that our hunter was still getting used to his job in the back (bombs, plus the majority of spider dmg). Once the spriest told me they were just falling further and further behind i switched it for the last time.

At this point we were starting to think of what dps assignments we would have to use for a kill (ie. someone up top, if not two for first up phase). The idea was...spriest and hunter on adds (more we did it the better it got, and will continue in that direction), rogue on bottom single targeting spinners as they drop, arc mage and ret up top for first trans blowing all cd's. I would assume we could then have those 2 nuke the drone in time for the second one spawning. From that point on rogue would go up, ret and mage would stay down and spinners>drones.

The boomkin would be there for the next attempts. I would think 4 ranged 1 mele would be best. That would be the only noteworthy change we would make to comp. Boom would probably go spinners>spiders>drones.

My take on the fight so far is... the spinners will kill either your raid or your healers mana if they are not tunneled down very fast (I have seen vids where prio seems to be that they die as they drop from web, I assume this is a must). It should only take 2 range to kill the spiders, both splitting bomb duty. It is smarter to put more damage up front on Beth and have more dps on the bottom as the fight goes on. Am i missing anything?

Tell me if there is anything I missed or am just wrong about. Or, if with the comp we have, there is a better strat.
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby Belloc » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:21 pm

Have your hunter read this:
http://angeredguild.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=32

Grats, your hunter can now solo the spiderlings.

That's all I've got :P
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby VikrumthePally » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:04 am

We began working on her last night and boy what a leap in difficulty for her normal version. We had 3 healers all pumping 20k+ hps for phase 1. I don't how long that is sustainable but that is just unreal amount of healing. Hopefully this topic will pick up once more people reach her.
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby Belloc » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:06 pm

I'm under the impression that spinners are only a danger until they are taunted down. I suppose I'll have a better idea after I tank the fight tonight.
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby Brosterr » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:15 am

The spinners are clearly the biggest concern. Although the fight is no joke once they are dealt with. And healers easily burn 30% mana when they are out, with no real chance to regen at any point in the fight (constant damage just worst at the start of each phase). After making the op we have not gone back to that fight. After doing some research i came to the conclusion that will be the last fight we do before rag. Different topic all together but rhyolith died in 20ish attempts for us and we had alysrazor sub 40% on our first night (15 attempts). From what i know baleroc and domo are both dps checks that most 10 mans doing them should be able to meet, especially if you are two healing (love that about this tier, only 3 heal fights for us are beth and shannox (just cause of the spread out nature and ease of the fight)).

My two cents after seeing beth for a night is that its not as hard as it will appear at first. Definitely send up 2 dps to start the fight with strong burst cd's. Find an aoe'er that can solo spiders. Kill spinners asap.
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby Kishandra » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:38 am

If you have a mage, there's a neat trick to prevent any aoe damage after a smoldering devastation.

Beth casts Smoldering Devastation.
Tank/healer jumps down, mage stays up.
2 seconds left on the cast, mage casts invis.
Smoldering devastation misses mage.
Mage comes out of invis, fires an icelance/arcane barrage at Beth, then blinks across the room.
Right before Beth reaches mage, mirror image, then run the hell away
By the time Beth chews through images and is able to hit the mage again, tank has already taken web up.
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby timoseewho » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:28 pm

My guild's about to start on this too, is it better to taunt the spinners down or leave them hanging and DPS them from there?
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby melisandyr » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:26 am

You'll definitely want to taunt the spinners down.
If left on the web they can encase people in webs of their own, preventing them from taking action until the spinner is brought down.
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby Jaitee » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:24 pm

a trick i found for beth is that you can ardent defender her explosion when she reaches 0 energy (smouldering devastation?) then LoH back to full health your healer needs to be quick to get back up though...not sure how viable a strat this it i thought it up on our 2nd last attempt of the night and tried it on our last after almost everyone else in the group had died
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby timoseewho » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:45 am

Jaitee wrote:a trick i found for beth is that you can ardent defender her explosion when she reaches 0 energy (smouldering devastation?) then LoH back to full health your healer needs to be quick to get back up though...not sure how viable a strat this it i thought it up on our 2nd last attempt of the night and tried it on our last after almost everyone else in the group had died

Neato, besides this one and the mage one mentioned above, any other tricks people found that can avoid the post-Smoldering Devastation AoE?
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby timoseewho » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:01 am

So we gave this boss a shot the other night and the main thing wiping us was spinners running around killing people. Is this a DPS problem or a tank problem? Should they be dying so fast that their melee should be a non-issue? Or should the tank down be low be grabbing all of them along with the drone? Thanks.
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby RedAces » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:13 am

They should die rather fast, but how can they kill somebody? Their melee attacks are pretty low (2k!)...
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby timoseewho » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:31 am

It just seems like that coupled with the whole AoE Beth'tilac does is a bit to handle:(, I'll tell the healers to step it up and rotate CD's, thanks!
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby RedAces » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:38 pm

Can you link a log or something? Just saying "step it up!!" doesn't solve anything if a bigger problem messes anything up.
Be sure to taunt them fast down otherwise they will stun someone for 25secs (wipe!). Also no one should stand in the green stuff.
And the most important thing is the frontal AE of the drones (called Boiling Splatter), it has UNLIMITED RANGE!!1112121 When they spawn they'll do this, so if your tank taunts them and the drone looks to the group -> instant 50 - 60k damage to everyone -> unhealable.
He should walk in from the south, taunt it so it faces away from the group, wait for the AE and then drag it to the group.
In addition everyone that got the fixate should turn the drone out of the group in order to avoid getting everyone hit by this AE.

The time between the smoldering devastation and until the beth-tank goes up again should be covered with raidcooldowns. And you should be standing together for maximum Healing Rain / Efflorence / PoH coverage.

So just saying "step it up" while they should heal this AE + the massiv group damage isn't gonna work.
Heres hoping it will help you kill it!
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Re: [10 HM] Beth'tilac

Postby timoseewho » Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:39 pm

Thanks a lot! Does your raid position in a way that they're standing right behind the drone in case of the fixate? This is excluding the guy taking care of the spiderlings/broodlings of course. I didn't notice the spinners' stun that night, but is it interrupt-able? You mentioned about drones coming in from the south, I personally never noticed where they come from, is it only from this one place? Thanks!

Sorry for the poor image, but is this how we should position? http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/83 ... oning.jpg/.

And as for logs, here it is, http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/twv5myofgcojtxxv/. I'm not asking for anyone to look at my logs, I just wanted general tips:].
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