[25N] Majordomo Staghelm

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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Belloc » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:50 am

Hrobertgar wrote:I think going zero scythes is counter productive, because the amount of time the first scythe takes is a lot and you may as well get benefit from that, otherwise you would probably need an extra cycle or two to make up for the short scorp phases. Minimizing scorp phases in heroic works only because of concentration. Using raid CDs your healers should be able to cover 3-4 scythes and Tank CDs should allow him to solo eat 1-2 per scorp phase as well. As long as you are taking more than like 1 scythe, then your 2min raid CDs shuold be up for every scorp phase, while you can plan your 3min Ds. Keep in mind, that a Pally tank Ardent Defender does work to solo soak a flame scythe. Its just that it is a 3min CD and leaves the tank at 15% health so he would need some HoTs rolling on him to survive afterwards.

When I tank it in 10m-N we go 8-6-5-6-5-kill on 3rd kitty. We use War-shout for 6, DK-shell for 7 and Pally-AM for 8. For the seed phase We coordinate Raid CDs for scythes My divine Guardian for 2, Shout for 3, and Aura Mastery for 4; then I use Ardent Defender to eat scythe 5, then break. For third scorp phase we go shout for 3rd, shell for 4th and Aura for 5th. In a 25m raid you should have plenty of raid CDs and external tank CDs to go around to help with scorp phase, and are much more likely to have access to guardian spirit and barrier or even multiple of some CDs.

You can also encourage people to use their own survival CDs, like glyphed Divine Prot for all pallys.
I'm not sure that solo-soaking works the same on 25, since the damage of the scythe is so much higher.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Galiks » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:30 am

Chronos wrote:Noticed no updates to this post for a while...
1) My main question is could a leaping flames only strategy trivialize this fight on 25N like it does in 10HM? Considering how much more difficult this fight is compared to N10 man, do you think a leaping flames only strategy (involving a pali tank eating 1-3 scythes at the start perhaps) 3-7-0-7-0-7-0 .. etc would be easier in 25N than a healer based scorp 6 scythes strategy 10-7-6-7-6-7? Could drop 2-3 heals and nuke him. My concerns are the dps wouldn't be there to prevent fury from stacking up too much and leaping flames starts 2-3 shotting people, or the leaping flames persisting on the ground for too long (time on that?)

2) Think stacking on one side to group orbs together for 3-4 players to soak is also worth it in 25N?

3) Does HoProtection still prevent Seed application? Thought it was only Divine Shield and Ice Block, haven't tested HoP.

I know both those strategies arose from the need to keep concentration at max in the heroic version, but after hearing so many HM 10 man guilds cleaning him up so easily with a leaping flames 2 healer focused strategy, I was wondering if this would make the fight "several orders of magnitude" easier on 25N...

We're not a progression guild, but we cleared 5/7 in one night in 25's. As it stands we do a 8-7-5-7-5-7dead strategy for 10N in each of our 10 man groups which is very easy. Replicating something similar on 25's is tough for us to handle, too much damage from scythes, cd's complicated for us to execute, orbs are chaotic. Our raid's DPS/heals isn't amazing. We did only use 6 healers in these logs when we needed 7.
First and only 25 man log:

I'd like to try a leaping flames only on 10N with 2 heals next week and see how it works out.

Thanks for your thoughts or input,

I'm not sure if the heroic strategy is worth doing since you can greatly shorten the amount of times you have to deal with special abilities if you prolong his phases in scorpion as well. Also, I'm not positive but it may not be possible to keep up with cats consistently without melee having the 100% damage buff. You don't really have to pull any special moves like dispersion or AD either unless you're extremely comfortable with it since you can almost definitely top people off between each slash, and it gets too risky to coordinate them towards the end since slashes pick up faster and faster.

If I were you I'd push 11-13 scorpion on the pull, with bloodlust on 6. Start chaining CDs at 7-8 with someone coordinating it in ventrilo. We do 13-7-5-7-5, and don't be afraid to jump out of scorpion earlier than 5 since it gets nasty on 25s when combining seeds. This fight really is scaled poorly from 10s to 25s (as well as the heroic version [and almost all other encounters besides beth]), but good luck.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Chronos » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:23 pm

Pretty sure another thread established you can't solo soak 2.2 million flame scythe without ardent defender.

Thanks for your thoughts and input. Does Hand of Protection prevent seed application?
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Treck » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:36 pm

You can solosoak with Guardian Spirit and some CDs aswell.
In any case, this is the topic on 25man normalmode, solosoaking is pretty wasted, and all it does is save your healers a very small ammount of mana (and mana is suppose to go up during catform anyway)
And you actually loose dps and time by solosoaking since he gets so much energy righ away anyway.

HoP/bubble does prevent seed application yes, so you can bop your dpsers while you bubble your own.

Edit: that has to be the first time ive ever written HoP ;( we all know its BoP.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Chronos » Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:57 pm

Downed him tonight! Big kill!

7 healers, 17 dps. Felt like we were low on DPS as we beat the enrage by 7 seconds I think?
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-szq0k ... 96&e=11890

Went= Heroism on pull to 10scythes - 7leaps - 5 scythes+seeds - 7 leaps - 5 scythes - 5 leaps+orbs - 3 scythes - 7 leaps - 0 scythes+seeds + spread and kill during last 7 leaps.

Things that helped us a lot = using 2 min CD's early so they'd be back up each scorp phase. Calling out to use immunities as we stacked and having HoP's assigned/macro'd made scorp seed phase easy. Marking five people to each find their own orb, so other ranged could be near marked people to help them soak... assigning partners was not working at all. Only five leaps during orbs made it easier. Lower special abilities each form, prolong fight = less stressful.
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Re: [25N] Majordomo Staghelm

Postby Hrobertgar » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:30 am

In any case, this is the topic on 25man normalmode, solosoaking is pretty wasted, and all it does is save your healers a very small ammount of mana (and mana is suppose to go up during catform anyway)

My comment was directed to a poster that was thinking about trying ZERO scorpion scythes and underhealing the encounter. That strikes me as very dangerous such that even solo-soaking one or two would be preferable. My experience with solo-soaking is if it is well executed it can ease healer anxiety, I do it on my tank for that reason; whereas the group I heal for does not solo-soak any in normal mode. I was not advocating solo-soaking 25m as a general strategy.
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