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[10HM] Lord Ryolith

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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby RedAces » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:08 am

If you can, perma slow them (shadowflame-glyph is nice, Earthbindtotem, Holy Wrath Stuns, Thunderstorm, Typhoon, etc...).
Avoid hard turns if possible, no 180° turn (it will guarantee to eat 'em all). Let him run in a circle and make finetuning to his radius to gather all active volcanos and avoid the dormant ones as much as possible.
Once there are 3 or 4 obsidian gathered up ae them down (at best pull the fragments on top of them). I usually had time between the fragment spawns so I finished a few obsidian while dps were on his legs.
If rhyo has to go straigth your melee dps may switch and kill a few obsidian (NOT during burn phase!). But a good slow and incidental ae usually suffice.
Btw superheated also occurs during P2 and kills you relativly fast, so the 5min mark is your berserk timer.

EDIT: Your group took way too much damage from the lava line in this try (look here). 3 people with 2+ ticks and 4 people with 1 tick is way too much damage taken. I'm suprised you didn't die earlier...
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby Adornus » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:19 am

Hey guys, I was wondering if you could take a look at some logs for me and see if you can pick out any issues we're having. We're trying to use the following comp:

2 DPS steer
1 DPS full-time on spark when it's up (on legs otherwise)
3 DPS on shards when up, 2 of these are also on spark when up
1 tank (warr) handles sparks
1 feral kitty switches to bear to handle shards
2 healers

I've come here because I know you guys are good at analyzing fights and don't get the normal BS from the other boards. I know this fight isn't using a Prot Pally but still hoping you could help (my OS is Prot, MS is Holy).

Any ideas? I'd really appreciate it.

EDIT - the one thing I know about is the magma flow and how that needs to get cut down. Some of our attempts we just ran into them to wipe.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3ur8 ... 459&e=3811
Last edited by Adornus on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby Darielle » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:34 am

Big things I see at a glance are:
- Lots and lots of Magma Flow damage being taken by people for you.

- Sparks are dying fine, but it seems like you're killing the 4th spark. If you're pushing him at ~4:30, 4:45 like you should be aiming for, that spark can be completely ignored. It'll help get him there faster before Superheated takes hold.

- Entire waves of Liquid Obsidian are getting to the feet. Like, you can ignore directly dps'ing them as long as you keep them slowed/knockbacks and kill some of them from incidental aoe, and you definitely don't care about them during the final push, but I doubt you can afford things like this:
[22:29:05.149] Right Foot's Obsidian Armor (40) fades from Right Foot
[22:29:15.129] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (41) from Right Foot
[22:29:23.089] Right Foot's Obsidian Armor (31) fades from Right Foot
[22:29:24.124] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (32) from Right Foot
[22:29:24.547] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (33) from Right Foot
[22:29:24.947] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (34) from Right Foot
[22:29:24.947] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (35) from Right Foot
[22:29:24.947] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (36) from Right Foot
[22:29:24.948] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (37) from Right Foot
[22:29:24.948] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (38) from Right Foot
[22:29:27.303] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (39) from Right Foot
[22:29:28.550] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (40) from Right Foot
[22:29:29.755] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (41) from Right Foot
[22:29:37.493] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (42) from Right Foot
[22:29:41.317] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (43) from Right Foot
[22:29:47.092] Right Foot's Obsidian Armor (33) fades from Right Foot
[22:29:47.271] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (34) from Right Foot
[22:29:53.394] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (35) from Right Foot
[22:29:55.883] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (36) from Right Foot
[22:29:58.282] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (37) from Right Foot
[22:29:58.282] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (38) from Right Foot
[22:29:58.658] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (39) from Right Foot
[22:30:01.922] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (40) from Right Foot
[22:30:08.026] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (41) from Right Foot
[22:30:19.675] Right Foot's Obsidian Armor (31) fades from Right Foot
[22:30:23.884] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (32) from Right Foot
[22:30:25.938] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (33) from Right Foot
[22:30:27.160] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (34) from Right Foot
[22:30:28.337] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (35) from Right Foot
[22:30:37.850] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (36) from Right Foot
[22:30:39.551] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (37) from Right Foot
[22:30:48.953] Right Foot's Obsidian Armor (27) fades from Right Foot
[22:30:50.037] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (28) from Right Foot
[22:30:58.270] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (29) from Right Foot
[22:31:11.683] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (30) from Right Foot
[22:31:16.501] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (31) from Right Foot
[22:31:20.204] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (32) from Right Foot
[22:31:20.204] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (33) from Right Foot
[22:31:21.854] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (34) from Right Foot
[22:31:27.531] Right Foot gains Obsidian Armor (35) from Right Foot

You'd definitely benefit from a way to funnel your Fragments AoE onto the Obsidian, looking at the Damage being done to them by various people (A Hunter doing 2 million damage to Fragments should end up doing more than 80k incidental damage to Obsidians throughout the ENTIRE fight without even really trying for it - that's a lot of free damage to miss and consequently a lot of opportunities to cut down the damage reduction he gains back)

- End result for you:
[22:31:34.145] Lord Rhyolith gains Superheated from Lord Rhyolith
[22:31:56.107] Lord Rhyolith gains Superheated (6) from Lord Rhyolith
[22:32:07.115] Lord Rhyolith's Obsidian Armor fades from Lord Rhyolith
[22:32:07.115] Lord Rhyolith gains Immolation from Lord Rhyolith
[22:32:08.351] Lord Rhyolith gains Superheated (8) from Lord Rhyolith

You need to be pushing him into phase 2 a solid 30 seconds earlier at the minimum, 45-55 would be much better.
Last edited by Darielle on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby Adornus » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:39 am

Darielle wrote:Logs


Thanks, that does make a lot of sense. I know they were trying to kite them, but it seems that with the steering, especially with hard right or left, it gives the adds time to catch up.

We have two hunters, a Frost DK, and a rogue (the latter two are the two driving). Should they be focusing more on slowing adds (e.g. FoK with cripping poison, frost traps, etc.)? Or, should we really try and tank all of the shards on top of the obsidian? I think this is probably the best bet.

I think I may put on the glyph of Holy Wrath for this fight for helping to corral adds and stun them in place. One other tactic we used is that I turn on RF for gathering adds for our druid to pick them up.
Last edited by Adornus on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby Darielle » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:43 am

Perma traps should be a given. As far as direct damage to them, judge by what you can afford once you have the other things sorted somewhat. I do 25-man, so how the split should be for 10-man is something I can't really judge specifically, but it's a call you'll have to make based on how much you trade off elsewhere. If you can get a lot more of them dead with free damage, it's win-win. If your DK/Rogue can afford to throw some aoe at them while steering, that could help too, as long as the tradeoff isn't too big and they keep him moving properly. You don't really have to care about getting ALL of them dead, but having him go from 40-->15 in a 2-minute span will help you a lot more than him going from 40-->35 overall
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby cncaudata » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:22 am

Here's our kill from yesterday: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g2koj6i8ssi8e3qs/sum/damageDone/?s=1448&e=1765 (note we still have fire problems - I swear it's invisible half the time under a previous volcano, a pile of adds, or the boss' foot)

You have a frost DK, he should almost certainly be on adds and spec'd chillblains. Your feral cat is doing almost nothing and could probably just be cat and switch places with the DK. If you do that, and get the adds on top of the boss, the obsidians will be slowed and die in aoe.

Really, use your frost DK. He'll provide slows to everything without even trying and do awesome damage to the adds.

If you don't want to switch up your dps - you do need to get the adds on top of the boss and your feral needs to step it up - I'd say there's no reason to go bear if it's gimping his damage that much. The adds don't need to be tanked so much as blown up.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby VikrumthePally » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:56 am

Our guild just simply can't figure out the turning system. We'll say go right and for X amount of time he'll sit at 50% (strait) and suddenly shoot to 99% (right) and over shoot the target. We are killing adds fine and avoiding lava flows. It's simply the steering that is killing us.

Even on normal this same thing happens. We simply can't figure out a good way to get a solid read on the direction and steering. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby fafhrd » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:38 pm

Steering seemed to sort itself out as soon as we assigned people default legs to attack - you can't have people randomly attacking legs, and you can't have people deciding at different times whether to start or stop on a leg.

We had 2 main drivers (mage and hunter) who each had a particular leg - if they didn't have to force a turn, they spent the fight DPSing their own leg. If a turn was needed, the person on the other leg would switch to also be on the leg you're turning around, and switch back when he's turned far enough - both of us had enough practice steering that we can tell when to start/stop turning on our own, but we still assigned one person to lead so there wouldn't be any confusion in cases where we could go either way.

All the other DPS were split between legs, each with an assigned one, and double-dotters dotting both legs. They'd be on their legs when nothing else was up, but on adds when adds were up. The DKs would aggro all the fragments and bring them on top of the legs for AoE, so all the AoE hit both legs.

We mostly ignored the Liquid Obsidians, and only opportunistically AoEd them when they happened to be nearby during Fragment AoE - DK snares and a random frosttrap hit them occasionally, but snaring them is pointless if you're going to make a hard turn and walk the boss right through them - you should avoid making turns like that, but sometimes you just have to do it.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby VikrumthePally » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:25 pm

This is precisely what we've been doing with a few classes being different ofc. Again we have zero trouble with killing adds, our obsidian armor stack stays low, but the steering just caused our volcano stack to get too high and we just end up dying because our increased damage just becomes so high.

The mechanic just feels really wonky. For us at least.

We have one person that calls out directions, 2 full time leg dps'ers (one on right one on left ofc), rest is broken up between sparks/frags. When neither of those are up the dps is divides up among the two legs.

Just so frustrating that the mechanic at time feels out of our control.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby cncaudata » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:34 pm

We have had a fury warrior, frost dk, hunter, enhance shaman, warlock, and... I don't know what else on legs and they all behave very differently. The nearest we can tell, it is the number of hits on a leg that cause a turn, not the amount of damage. So if you have 1 fast hitting class and 1 slow, you'll have issues. We settled on Enhance/Fury and they are able to make the guy pirouet if they want.

If you already have 1 turning team and everyone else evened out, this is the only remaining thing I can think of that might be causing you issues.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby Adornus » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:13 pm

We had another rough night on him, really didn't make much progress. Can you guys see what else needs to happen? I have some ideas but I'd like to hear what you guys say first (as to get an un-biased opinion).

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nfpf1q5k2rvx316r/

For more reference, average ilvl is around 372.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby Lieris » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:04 am

We have 3 ranged dps on the adds, 3 melee dps on the legs and I solo tank. Ranged dps switching to legs during downtime. When the 4th spark spawns all dps focus on the legs with heroism and switch him to phase 2 before any remaining fragments start charging and the boss gains Superheated.

Because I solo tank and at times have both fragments and a spark on me the ranged dps can just AOE everything down and we can really optimise our dps.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby VikrumthePally » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:21 am

Well we finally got this douche canoe down. I'll post a tip here that helped us. Our guild leader did some number crunching and it turns out that the time it takes him to go from 50% life to 25% life at about 40% armor is roughly 40 seconds. Where we were making out biggest mistake is trying to get his amror much lower. Because if he was at say 10% armor (instead of 40%) it would 26 seconds (instead of 40 seconds). So that is only 14 seconds of dps time. However in order to drop him by 30 more % armor it would take 3 more volcanoes which is just an eternity it seems like. So there is just a happy medium point you need to find for your raid dps. For us it was BL'ing right at 50%(life). This (again for us) was about right when the 3rd spark was dying. Now we still got another spark (tanked but not killed) and another set of fragments (killed) but it just really seemed to smooth things out.

I won't lie and say that we finally figured out the wonky steering mechanic (because it's still RNG for us basically) but we just learned to stop dealing with it for so long and just brute force it to the 2nd phase.

It's funny everyone says p2 is pretty hard still and yet we steam rolled that. We got in p2 once and died, and got into p2 the 2nd time and got our first kill.

We are 10 man, and used two tanks and two heals. I know that is pretty unorthodox but our Prot Warrior was able to be 2nd in dps/dmg done on the frags so they died pretty quickly each time around.

We have a pretty detailed video explanation if someone wants a video link. Sorry for all my QQ about the steering mechanic. Just glad to get this one behind us. (until next week haha)

Hope this helps. Good luck!
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby fafhrd » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:43 am

I still don't get people complaining about the steering. The only steering issues we've had in the past many dozen pulls and 2 kills are occasionally oversteering him, maybe one turn out of 50.

The volcano spawns might be a bit annoying sometimes, but once you assign all your dps sensibly, he's fairly consistent with turns.
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Re: [10HM] Lord Ryolith

Postby Tamarins » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:47 pm

VikrumthePally wrote:We are 10 man, and used two tanks and two heals. I know that is pretty unorthodox but our Prot Warrior was able to be 2nd in dps/dmg done on the frags so they died pretty quickly each time around.


We're going to be starting on this guy this week and I'm doing some initial planning in terms of composition and assignments. I was surprised to read that you two-tanked it. Can you explain what each tank did? Was one on sparks and one on frags? If so, what did each tank do when they didn't actively have something to tank?

Also, thanks for the pointer on timing BL, that'll be very helpful.
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