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[25H] Nefarian

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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby baleogthefierce » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:28 am

Meloree wrote:We found the P1->P2 transition to be the hardest part of the fight for us, especially with RNG cinders, so we did a few things to make sure it was stable all the time, despite whatever RNG we might get:
1) We use my raidwall at the transition, about 1s before cinders explode. It gives them some DR on the way back in.
2) Each pillar has a DPS druid (or our feral tank) on it to use a tranq on every pillar at transition. It helps soften the on-platform load so the healers can focus on cinders.
3) Each pillar has at least one hybrid healing spellcaster (SP or Ele or Boomkin) who can spot-heal when there's 2-3 healers cindered on a pillar.
4) Every pillar has some form of fire resist (Paladin aura or shaman healing stream totem)
5) Personal cooldowns should be available for anyone that has them - barkskin, shieldwall - most DPS have something they can soften damage with, it should be available for the transition.

In addition to those things that we do every time on transition, a few more tips:
4) We're not afraid to call for priest hymns if necessary, from our SPriests.
5) Our Ret paladins are pretty aggressive about using WoG if their pillar has low-health people.
6) I'm on the pillar with 9 people instead of 8, and I spam-heal Cinder targets (Flash of Light/WoG with SoI) to help out.

Not all of this is strictly necessary anymore, but it certainly helped with our first kills.


Thanks, that's what I was afraid of.

Initially we were having all members of the raid pop every possible thing they had to stay alive, but since we've gotten more familiar with the healing needs of phase 2 we're generally saving personal defensive cooldowns for when people are actually selected for cinders.

By the end of the night we were making it to phase 3 most every time unless we encountered a bad transition like I described above. One thing we did notice is that our Discipline Priests are godmode for platform healing, and we're fortunate enough to have 2 so only one of our platforms is ever even an issue in the first place.
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby Kihra » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:54 am

Meloree wrote:
Kihra wrote:Spread people with immunities evenly among the platforms. You can basically make it so that it's extremely unlikely that 3 unclearable cinder debuffs will occur on 1 pillar. That means mages and paladins spread out among different pillars, etc.


It's whenever people say something like this that I become intensely jealous of raids that have more than two paladins, one rogue, and one mage in them.


Two holies, two rets, two mages, two rogues, one prot pally. :)

We also use Divine Guardian on that P1->P2 transition.
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby Kerriodos » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:52 pm

We deal with phase three in much the same way as Treck suggested. I'm the add tank, as the only shield tank in our raid, so I'll just quickly outline how I handle it; hopefully it'll help a bit.

At the start of the phase, having the adds in a tight pile is a big boon, and saves a lot of headaches down the road. It's not strictly necessary however, since you have Ana picking up stragglers. I pick up all the adds as they activate, move them about 10 yards out, and park them. To lessen damage here, small positioning adjustments are made to keep them from spreading out and surrounding you. Stuns are also useful, as this stage gives you 30 seconds before the next shadowblaze.

From this point forward, good timing on movement becomes critical. Kite all the time and you'll eventually run out of room. Move too late and the adds never die. Best bet is to start strafing away at 1 second on the shadowblaze timer. This is when a spark picks an add and it's placement is set. So long as adds are away from the spark within the next 2-5 seconds, it's not an issue. Rinse and repeat.

I don't know how DBM works, but for BigWigs at least when things get hectic later on there are actually two five-second timers rather than the correct 10-second one, and I've found it helps to keep a beat in your head when things get busy. Moving too fast at this point is more dangerous than ever, and the kiting itself can get stressful. Try to keep your rhythm, and remember to start moving just before the spark goes out so the adds don't stand around looking confused for too long and get hit.

As far as cooldowns, I alternate 1 minute cooldowns for crackles (Mirror and Glyphed Divine Protection). My healers use externals as needed for higher add stacks, and generally just try to pick up the healing around 10 stacks. In an emergency, they'll call out for me to CD myself. We've found this works better than panic cooldowns because it lessens the risk of doubling up and not having a CD later on.

Stunning once you get to the 10-second blazes can be dangerous, but easily done if you're good about movement. If you must stun and you're worried that the adds will get hit, move away while they're stunned so they run for you immediately. Honestly, this is something that you just learn to time with experience.

A full reset is healable with the right cooldowns--we lived through adds hitting 20 stacks on a few attempts early on. However, it will drain healer mana. Make sure your other healers understand what the add-healers are doing, in case you need to sub out for mana concerns.

If you have issues with adds resetting apart, and have say one or two adds up, a good strategy is to leave them piled on the add stack in such a way that the spark is virtually guaranteed to hit everything. Delay your movement for about a second--two adds will move to you much faster than an entire train, and having one add with high stacks (if it gets hit) is better than all the adds being activated where you can't get them. Even a tank helping makes that difficult, because then she has to kite those adds until you can rip aggro. Once you've moved the adds away, if your paladin drops a consecrate on the pile, they'll all go to her, but it will still be easy to rip them off of her and continue as normal.

As far as the boss himself, we keep the raid on his left flank with myself and the adds on his right. He is turned immediately after breaths to minimize risk of the raid being breathed on, and they know to run through him if needed.

As far as phase two, lots of hybrid heals tends to work well for us. Healing Rain and Holy Radiance are godsends in tough situations, as are WoG's on Cinder targets. Shaman interrupters make things easy because you don't need a backup for their Cinders, just if they call out for one. Spliting up Shadow Priests and Druids to spread Hymns and Tranqs is good to stave off emergency--let your healers call out for them as necessary. Remind your raiders that healthstones are good to use here.
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby Treck » Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:26 pm

Just throwing it out there, people with immunities can still stay in the lava for the whole p2, meaning they dont have to move with cinders.
Altho this is pretty hard to get any real use out of unless its mages.
Paladins eather have to be close to the add, or they want to be close to the group.
Mages swimming in lava works fine tho.

(using immunities to get rid of the magma debuff, not the cinders, when the immunity runs out and your still in the lava, magma doesnt start to stack up again, untill you jump up and then down the magma again)
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby warden » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:04 pm

A huge thanks to you guys for the help here; making the changes in kiting, especially as outlined by Mel, Treck, and Kihra in such great detail, got us the kill tonight. 9/13H and on to Council!
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby baff » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:06 pm

I'm too lazy to post all of the logs I've looked at, but there seems to be a bug in nef's room which makes consecrate not do any damage since 4.1.

I have validated this through a few WoL reports.
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby Brutalus » Sun May 01, 2011 1:54 am

baff wrote:I'm too lazy to post all of the logs I've looked at, but there seems to be a bug in nef's room which makes consecrate not do any damage since 4.1.

I have validated this through a few WoL reports.


In our alt run yesterday (on normal) our dk was complaining that his DnD wasn't affecting the skeletons so I'd imagine it carries over to other similar effects, too.
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby baleogthefierce » Sun May 01, 2011 9:48 pm

Brutalus wrote:
baff wrote:I'm too lazy to post all of the logs I've looked at, but there seems to be a bug in nef's room which makes consecrate not do any damage since 4.1.

I have validated this through a few WoL reports.


In our alt run yesterday (on normal) our dk was complaining that his DnD wasn't affecting the skeletons so I'd imagine it carries over to other similar effects, too.


Confirmed, we had this same issue on Tuesday.
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby warden » Mon May 02, 2011 9:51 am

Yep, still causing us problems last night too. Our warrior has been wrecked by the 4.1 latency change, so we've swapped to a pally add-kiter; this was a rough time for this to happen.
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Re: [25H] Nefarian

Postby baff » Thu May 05, 2011 8:35 pm

baleogthefierce wrote:
Brutalus wrote:
baff wrote:I'm too lazy to post all of the logs I've looked at, but there seems to be a bug in nef's room which makes consecrate not do any damage since 4.1.

I have validated this through a few WoL reports.


In our alt run yesterday (on normal) our dk was complaining that his DnD wasn't affecting the skeletons so I'd imagine it carries over to other similar effects, too.


Confirmed, we had this same issue on Tuesday.


This has been fixed.

yay!!
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