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[25] Heroic Maloriak

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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby PsiVen » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:08 am

Arianne wrote:This is the best time to transition him really.


Perhaps a convenient time, but I would argue the best time to transition him is immediately upon the application of Debilitating Slime. Heroism DPS pumping the boss at +100% damage taken for 15 seconds shaves a lot of time off the burn phase. However this relies on DPS/Remedy being reliably able to bring the boss low enough in time, and works best if you have excess DPS to pump into burning adds before the green phase as well.


Peering through a very entertaining google-translated WoL, I will say that "Macrophage invasion of the dark" wins the prize for coolest boss spell, while "Disability poison" wins the depressing award.

On the linked attempt: Remedy has 18 ticks with 175k avg. The first tick is 150k, the second tick is 300k. Assuming you never let a third tick, this means you had 12x single ticks and 3x second ticks. This is pretty respectable I think, though it could be better. Overall Remedy data for all attempts shows a much worse average of 257k in 110 ticks, but I'm guessing that's just because people stop dispelling during wipes.

What I see here appears to be respectable DPS which drops off for some reason during the burn phase. It's not clear why Heroism is so late (the best time is right at 25%, before people have to start dodging bad stuff) so I can't tell where that phase actually starts, but DPS decreases throughout Heroism which tells me that something is wrong with positioning. The fact that a hunter died to Magma Jets is another red flag. What is going on in that phase which involves ranged DPS being anywhere remotely close to where the fire walls are going?

However, if you are having to kill an entire 3rd set of dark magic slimes, that is why you're wiping to the berserk more than anything else. I can't really delve deeply enough into this report to tell you for sure, but my guess would be that AoE DPS not being done efficiently and causes DPS on the boss to fall behind. When the green slime debuff lands, are all the adds clumped up waiting to be burned down, with all the DPS already there and ready for them?

Attempt #3 -- 11:55
I don't know how close this one wound up being, but avoidable deaths and probably low healer mana caused some problems... then you got uppercut by Magma Jets. Based on raid performance until P2, this should have been a kill.

Attempt #7 -- 10:43
Third Dark phase doomed this attempt. DPS was particularly low from the looks of it because the second Dark phase didn't die fast enough. Maloriak also healed 7 million HP from Remedy, but that may have been during the wipe.
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby superworm » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:48 am

I'm on the Taiwan server so there are those Chinese characters. Anyway, I agree that we poped hero somewhat late. About the warrior, I agree that Arms is much better in this fight. We will try to make him spec Arms next time.

@PsiVen
Thank you for your careful analysis. I think the problem is that we still lacks practice in the burn phase and people were easy to get panicked. In the 11:55 try people were not well positioned and I had trouble guiding the boss from other members, and the blue orb damage was another surprise when it exploded in the crowd. We got much better later in the 12:14 try.

I think we now have almost managed this fight and we only need some refinement to down Maloriak. If we pop heroism earlier, we should be able to avoid a 3rd black phase and finish the fight before boss enrages. Some dps were pulling aggro during the black phase, for which I think they just need to keep switching targets instead of smashing one target hard. Another thing we need to deal with is the blue orb in P3. People reported that the orb stayed for quite a long time and they proposed to let people eat them with CDs instead of dodging them. I think we can try that next time.
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Arianne » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:36 am

Organize your hand of salvations (since you have multiple ret paladins) for the people who are likely to pull aggro (our boomkin and mages are the ones we give them to). Have the add tank mark a skull for the single target dpsers and make sure to keep aggro on that. Make sure that your boomkins are giving the add tank thorns constantly with a rotation. The slimes do their spit every so often (10s?), so you can briefly pause after each one to let the adds catch up and do a couple of big AoE abilities (use a threat and a defensive CD). Emphasize that anyone pulling a slime out of the pack is costing you the fight. If you have threat on a slime you need to say it in vent and keep it in the AoE until the tank picks it back off you.

You want to get to a point where you can consistently push him over before the 3rd set of vile swill in order to have enough time to beat the enrage. You want to move Maloriak in the 2nd phase such that he's never pointing at the room. We pull him to the NE first and then go counter clockwise around the room. The MT needs to warn the OT when he's turning a corner so the OT doesn't get caught in the flame jet as he's kiting the prime subjects.

If, with the changes above, you can spare the DPS on the swill, you may want to leave your ret paladins on the boss during black phase instead of killing vile swill because ret pallies have pretty poor AoE at the moment (they can do the interrupts for AS or RA). That may allow you to more consistently push into phase 2 earlier.

We've never tried just soaking the orbs, but they do quite a lot of damage and explode in quite a large radius, so I'm not sure that it's possible to do so. As long as your raid is moving around the room, then they'll naturally move away from the orbs (though ones in melee are somewhat trickier and may need the MT to move farther between flame jets).
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak Black Phase Positioning

Postby Arizair » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:34 am

Marblehead wrote:
superworm wrote:The problem we're having is the green phase. Our Maloriak tank ( a bear) constantly die in this phase. We assigned two dedicated healers for him in this phase and I'm considering to ask another healer to watch for him in this phase as there is no big raid damage in this phase.


When the green phase starts, everyone in the room (aberrations and raid members) get the Debilitating Slime debuff. Your Maloriak tank needs to save his Survival Instincts and pop them immediately after Maloriak's leap. The debuff only lasts 15 seconds.


not that it helps if your bear is always going to be the MT, but a DK can remove the debuff with AMS (and can also block the MS during a black phase channel when they get low)
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby superworm » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:20 pm

We have downed this and I'm writing some experiences here.

The final strategy we used is that DK tanks the boss, warrior tanks the oozes and bear helps tanking aberrations. We used to ask a paladin to tank the oozes, but people were getting OT contantly. I think it was due to inefficient skills. Like someone else mentioned, DK is very powerful in the black phase due to self-healing and AMS. Generally I pop Bone Shield before boss start channeling, and the spell he channels doesn't consume charges. So I get a free 20% DR in the whole black phase. I stay in the melee range when he was casting, but I will run out of the melee range about 2 seconds before he finishes channeling, because if the tank stays in melee range, the boss is very likely to melee you once before he starts casting again. I just run in when he starts the cast. Watch out to dodge the black puddles. Instead of using AMS on cooldown, I prefer to save it for emergency. With AMS up, DK can receive healing normally regardless of the channeling spell.

The adds are not very difficult once the raid have enough AoE dps. The main killer for us is the interrupt. A slow interrupt in the red phase is not very deadly as generally it is covered by raid CDs and healers are healing the raid madly. However, a slow interrupt in the blue phase generally means a dead person. The ice tomb hits for about 110k and one definitely needs to pop a defensive CD to survive it if hit by the arcane storm.

We poped heroism 5 seconds into the fight. This way we pushed the fight into the burn phase before the 3rd black phase, saving a lot of time. We had the chance to pop another heroism in our kill, though the boss was dead before the 2nd heroism weared off.
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Treck » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:04 pm

superworm wrote:We used to ask a paladin to tank the oozes, but people were getting OT contantly. I think it was due to inefficient skills.

When you say people were getting OT, you mean people overaggroed?
Ive been tanking oozes every kill we have had, and while threat obviously is a problem, i think atleast paladins do it better than warriors, and most likely druids aswell.
Biggest issue is if people start going on the adds before youve gathered them all, thats when it gets annoying, if people hold a sec or 2 (that is, a sec or 2 after youve gathered them, not after the first one have spawned, sadly thats more or less when people start, i sometimes wonder if people still thinkgs they all spawn at the same time) its really not much of a problem, remember they can be stunned and shit, so that people dont charge in, blow all CDs and run away with them before youve had a chance to do anything.

superworm wrote:We poped heroism 5 seconds into the fight. This way we pushed the fight into the burn phase before the 3rd black phase, saving a lot of time. We had the chance to pop another heroism in our kill, though the boss was dead before the 2nd heroism weared off.

Are you sure your dispelling the heal asap if your hitting a 3rd black phase?
Sure you might not have the dps we have, but if we would to dispell the heals, he would hit 25% after the 2nd black phase, seems like its to big of a differance imo, but i doubt youve missed that part of the fight :S
Kinda feel like some of your dpsers are not doing what they are suppose to.
Im pretty sure you will also get more dps out of using hero duing the green phase, rather than 5sec into the pull.
You will have the +100% dmg taken on the boss, and the adds while aoeing, meaning they die faster, and more dps on the boss while he has the buff.
You are also going to be dpsing the ooze in the first black phase with hero, making it not really that benefitial for killing the boss faster.

We have to avoid dispelling the heal all through the fight, its that or stopping dps completely for half the fight, sucks you kinda have to wait for the 2nd green phase anyway :S
And people rather push their buttons than standing around doing nothing, i guess for WoL :P
We start dispelling more or less after the first phase after the 2nd black phase, meaning we have one phase+ green to take him down from 50%, and its really not much trouble, if we think it might be close, we just push hero during the green phase, otherwise its a good time to go hero anyway, since if your dpsing him with hero,
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby PsiVen » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:36 pm

Does the release-during-black-phase cast happen in 25-man too? You guys could negate the need for a 2nd green phase by releasing 3 for first black, 12 for first green, and final 3 during first black. Would be fun I think ;)
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Belloc » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:13 pm

I imagine that you mean the release before black phase?
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Treck » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:33 pm

We could, but that also means kiting 18 adds right before the green phase, and i think thats more trouble than its worth tbh.
Would most likely take a few tries to get perfected, and then i prefer a 2min slower kill, than maybe half an hour to get it working.

Had a bad week 2 weeks ago with valiona, someone thought it would be a good idea to suddenly start with brute forcing them down, meaning we had to sit there with 3-4 wipes before we got it working, while its not really much faster kill (maybe like 30-40sec faster kill) and its also more risky in the end. In without wipes we could take 13/13 bosses in way less than 4 hours, but these days we have to go for 4:30, sometimes up to 5 hours in total one week to get rid of all content, might not sound like much but it ofthen means we have to get up and running a second day the same week, id be much more comfortable if people played safe and just got it over with in under 4 hours, its bad enough i gotta spend one day doing farm content, but 2 is just annoying, esp since the 2nd day isnt even for an hour, but still enough to ruin the evening for other plans.
(i guess its ironic to be complaining on having to raid a whole 2 days by taking 13 bosses)
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Dravan » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:22 am

Just downed this last night. After expecting a bit of a walk over on this boss I will say that we have spent a couple of weeks (we only raid around 10 hours a week) banging our heads before a kill and its definately been the hardest for us yet (4/13 now).

In the end we ran with 2 tanks, 7 healers and 16 DPS. One of our main problems as a guild is we tend to have a lot of melee (especially DPS warriors!) which turned out to be a bit of a nightmare on this boss. Getting the AOE for the black phase proved a challenge for us but then we only had 1 demo lock in the raid and lets face it, they rule for aoe.

As previous people have said a DK tank seems the best choice for tanking boss, we tried a warrior tank and it was a nightmare. I (pally tank) tanked the ads and while sometimes initial threat was a bit of a problem I found using Inq, Wings, Strength Potion and having a few MD's made picking the oozes up pretty easy. Having 5 DPS warriors made it especially hard in the start but I just found moving as little as possible and tabbing my hammer made it pretty easy after some practise. If I started to lose threat on one I just targetted it and spammed some single target. The key to maximising DPS on those ads is to move as little as possible, and to shout at the melee A LOT for standing in the black.

In red/blue phase I was kiting abberations alone. We had hunters dropping frost traps with Entrapment in the middle near the stairs and MDing at least one side of ads to me, I tried to handle the other while kiting. I see someone above me mentioned releasing all 18 ads in a single rotation. All I can say is tried it, doesn't work (at least not for us). The problem you face is either having to use two tanks, the RNG of it releasing 3 aberations before the first black, and building enough threat on the ads so when you do AOE you don't lose them. Also the AOE will cap in green phase and we simply didn't have enough to take them down. Therefore we stuck with taking 3 ads in first black and kiting with oozes so they die, 9 in first red/blue rotation, an additional 3 in 2nd black phase with oozes, and whats left for the second red/blue rotation.

On the red phase note that you can no longer use GS to negate the blasts. We tried it, and yeh it was fixed. Simply use a couple of CD's per blast and try to be topped after the second just in case you get a 3rd (I think you have over 10s to top off after 2nd before 3rd can possibly hit).

Due to a DPS lack we pulled hero on the second green phase and had Maloriak tanked on top of the 3 - 6 remaining ads with people focusing him while aoeing. On the kill he was just starting black when we went through. A very important thing for the green phase is to have a hit capped interupter focusing the boss still. We used an enhancement shammy. It's best to get him to take the storms and the tank focused on interupting one of the two abberation spawns. If you get both spawns it will most likely be a wipe as the healing needed to keep me up with 6 abberations and 5 oozes in the kite phase meant others died.

The final phase we found was pretty easy, we killed it the third time we pushed it. One tip is to do him normal and then when you hit the last phase just practise. It's exactly the same (I think?) and gets people used to the frost orbs, the aoe debuff timing and tanking through the magma jets. The thing I made people sure to do was to shout at each other if they see frost orbs. The more vocal the better in that phase. Also a handy tip is you can bubble off the rend stacks when offtanking in that phase, and you will not lose aggro. Best to time it when you have the debuff and healers are crazy healing the raid.

Overall was a very rewarding kill!
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Fenris » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:50 am

Really important question:


My guild already killed him on 10m HM and now we are working on the 25hm kill....I'm maintanking him.

Evertthing goes fine till we push him into p2 and he casts the first magma jet:he starts casting,i sidestep to avoid it...And half a second before he ends casting,he moves and re-arrange his aim right on top of me =>impossible to avoid

Nothing like that happened on the 10m kill so...How i'm supposed to avoid it? :?
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:27 pm

Fenris wrote:Really important question:


My guild already killed him on 10m HM and now we are working on the 25hm kill....I'm maintanking him.

Evertthing goes fine till we push him into p2 and he casts the first magma jet:he starts casting,i sidestep to avoid it...And half a second before he ends casting,he moves and re-arrange his aim right on top of me =>impossible to avoid

Nothing like that happened on the 10m kill so...How i'm supposed to avoid it? :?


How many P3 attempts did you get to where this happened?

I ask because ONCE very recently (two weeks ago I believe) he did what you're describing starting from about the 3rd magma jet up until the end of the fight. To me, it was clearly bugged. If you go back in there and try again, I'm willing to bet this won't happen.

Normally it's "starts casting, you step to the side, fire goes where he was pointing when he first started casting". When it was bugged for me the last time it's "starts casting, you step to the side, he still looks like he's casting where you were, but as soon as the cast is finished he's instantly facing you and the fire goes right at you".

When I first saw it I thought it was a fluke and that I simply messed up. Then he did it for the next one, and by the time I had realized it was bugged I had already got nailed by the fire once or twice and died. One of the other tanks took over, he had the exact same issue.

I've tanked Malorik 25H for a lot of kills, both pre patch where he didn't have a cast bar for Magma Jets and after. And this was the only time I've seen that happen.
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Meloree » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:43 pm

inthedrops wrote:
Fenris wrote:Really important question:


My guild already killed him on 10m HM and now we are working on the 25hm kill....I'm maintanking him.

Evertthing goes fine till we push him into p2 and he casts the first magma jet:he starts casting,i sidestep to avoid it...And half a second before he ends casting,he moves and re-arrange his aim right on top of me =>impossible to avoid

Nothing like that happened on the 10m kill so...How i'm supposed to avoid it? :?


How many P3 attempts did you get to where this happened?

I ask because ONCE very recently (two weeks ago I believe) he did what you're describing starting from about the 3rd magma jet up until the end of the fight. To me, it was clearly bugged. If you go back in there and try again, I'm willing to bet this won't happen.

Normally it's "starts casting, you step to the side, fire goes where he was pointing when he first started casting". When it was bugged for me the last time it's "starts casting, you step to the side, he still looks like he's casting where you were, but as soon as the cast is finished he's instantly facing you and the fire goes right at you".

When I first saw it I thought it was a fluke and that I simply messed up. Then he did it for the next one, and by the time I had realized it was bugged I had already got nailed by the fire once or twice and died. One of the other tanks took over, he had the exact same issue.

I've tanked Malorik 25H for a lot of kills, both pre patch where he didn't have a cast bar for Magma Jets and after. And this was the only time I've seen that happen.


Make your warlocks replace Curse of Tongues. It's cast-time slows that make him act like that.
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby inthedrops » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:15 pm

Odd. If slows fall off it makes him buggy? Or when they're applied? I'm pretty sure we've been using slows for a while.
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Re: [25] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Fenris » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:26 pm

inthedrops wrote:I ask because ONCE very recently (two weeks ago I believe) he did what you're describing starting from about the 3rd magma jet up until the end of the fight. To me, it was clearly bugged. If you go back in there and try again, I'm willing to bet this won't happen.

A full night of tries,so i'd say 6-7 p3

Meloree wrote:
Fenris wrote:
Make your warlocks replace Curse of Tongues. It's cast-time slows that make him act like that.

Only CoT or any casting time debuff?

Guess i'll have to kill our arcane mage if the second is true :o
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