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questions re: al'akir 25

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questions re: al'akir 25

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:05 pm

I hate this fight so we didn't start working on it until last night. A couple questions:

1) how many stacks of feedback is typical, assuming perfect stack managment?

2) how many stacks of acid rain is typical?
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Meloree » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:11 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:I hate this fight so we didn't start working on it until last night. A couple questions:

1) how many stacks of feedback is typical, assuming perfect stack managment?

2) how many stacks of acid rain is typical?


2) 17-18 is fairly typical of first kills. It's helpful to have people with immunities clear stacks at around 12, and probably start chaining cooldowns at around 14 or so.

1) Doesn't really matter. Acid Rain is the time limiter - if you manage adds well enough for the stack to never drop, then you'll get enough stacks of feedback - if you don't manage the adds well, you're probably done for in early kills.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Gab » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:58 pm

fuzzygeek wrote:I hate this fight so we didn't start working on it until last night. A couple questions:

1) how many stacks of feedback is typical, assuming perfect stack managment?

2) how many stacks of acid rain is typical?


1) On our first kill IIRC we got to 5 stacks of Feedback and it dropped off, then got to 4 and dropped off again, we also used hero in p2 on our first kill but now use it in p3. So perfect management is not necessary, but it is extremely helpful on getting through p2 quicker. Assuming perfect stack Management I think our highest was 8 or 9 stacks.

2) Again IIRC we were nearing 20 stacks of feedback, I believe people that didn't have a means to clear the stacks were at 19. It got a little bit dicey, but with some CDs it was healable.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Chicken » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:46 pm

I realize you're asking about 25-man, but I'll still weigh in on the 10-man side as (judging by the two posters above me) it's quite similar.

1) 7 stacks is the highest I've seen before the phase changed (We always use Bloodlust during phase 2; we don't really have issues with anyone surviving phase 3 so it makes more sense to shorten that part of the fight). I've seen a higher amount of add kills happen before, but due to the whole stacking damage taken debuff nature of feedback, the better you do at it the less adds you end up killing.
2) I think with the aforementioned 7 stacks of feedback we ended up at 12 stacks of Acid Rain. On earlier kills with worse add killing management we ended up surviving up to 20ish stacks though.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Boyfriend » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:04 pm

Note that the last 2 replies are for 10 man, on 25 for a first kill you probably can't have any failures on feedback. Our first kill was with 11 stacks of feedback on the boss.

That's around 15-16 stacks of acid rain on 25.

Nowdays we manage to kill him even if stacks drop, but that's in mostly heroic gear, and we still bloodlust in P2 as P3 is a total cakewalk and you have no damage buff.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:46 am

Thanks for the feedback.

For p3, top bottom top bottom middle? Or bottom to top?
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Belloc » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:06 am

Top, down a bit, bottom, up a bit, top, down a bit, bottom, up a bit?
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby inthedrops » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:29 am

I always wondered the various way other guilds do P3.

We do:
1. Start at the top.
2. Cloud -> Move down a bit.
3. Cloud -> Move to bottom.
4. Cloud -> Move up a bit.
5. Cloud -> Goto step 1

So, two cloud spawns before changing extremes.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Chicken » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:57 am

We just go for starting at the bottom and moving up a little bit after every storm cloud. Al'akir dies before we reach the top. That's again 10-man though, so that might be cutting it too close for the 25-man version.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Brutalus » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:15 pm

We just start at the top (and obviously the back, for no parries) and move down a bit after each cloud. He's normally dead before we reach the bottom, unless we lose a bunch of people earlier on. This is 25man, by the way.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby superworm » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:22 pm

We pulled Al'Akir several times in 25 man mode last night. We already finished this in 10 man, but the fight is really different in 25 man. It seems the lightning strike in P1 is just an instant cast which will chain to everyone in the cone, no matter the distance between them. I wonder what positioning other people are using. I'm thinking of dividing the raid to several stacks and in each stack people just stick to the same angle. I wonder how many stacks would be feasible.

Also I watched the 25H paragon video http://www.youtube.com/user/paragonWOW# ... GeY1Hxv-u8
In this video, that hunter jump off the platform to avoid the tornado wall, and he can get back to the platform almost instantly. How did he achieve that? I tried jumping off the platform and I have to wait like 10 seconds before getting back.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Belloc » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:51 pm

superworm wrote:We pulled Al'Akir several times in 25 man mode last night. We already finished this in 10 man, but the fight is really different in 25 man. It seems the lightning strike in P1 is just an instant cast which will chain to everyone in the cone, no matter the distance between them. I wonder what positioning other people are using. I'm thinking of dividing the raid to several stacks and in each stack people just stick to the same angle. I wonder how many stacks would be feasible.

Also I watched the 25H paragon video http://www.youtube.com/user/paragonWOW# ... GeY1Hxv-u8
In this video, that hunter jump off the platform to avoid the tornado wall, and he can get back to the platform almost instantly. How did he achieve that? I tried jumping off the platform and I have to wait like 10 seconds before getting back.

Lightning strike functions the exact same way on 10-man. Mechanics wise, the fights are identical... afaik. Everything you see happening on 25-man happens on 10-man, there's just less people for it to happen to.


And the hunter was using disengage.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby Kerriodos » Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:59 pm

superworm wrote:We pulled Al'Akir several times in 25 man mode last night. We already finished this in 10 man, but the fight is really different in 25 man. It seems the lightning strike in P1 is just an instant cast which will chain to everyone in the cone, no matter the distance between them. I wonder what positioning other people are using. I'm thinking of dividing the raid to several stacks and in each stack people just stick to the same angle. I wonder how many stacks would be feasible.

Also I watched the 25H paragon video http://www.youtube.com/user/paragonWOW# ... GeY1Hxv-u8
In this video, that hunter jump off the platform to avoid the tornado wall, and he can get back to the platform almost instantly. How did he achieve that? I tried jumping off the platform and I have to wait like 10 seconds before getting back.


We use the floor as a guide. There are black and white sections: we stack three people on each section (aim for one ranged, one melee, one healer/other ranged) with one or two having four (can't remember how many groups). Everyone has to be very careful not to chain the lightning to the group next to them.

The hunter used Disengage to get back on. A 'lock can do similarly with his demonic portal deal.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:48 pm

superworm wrote:I wonder what positioning other people are using. I'm thinking of dividing the raid to several stacks and in each stack people just stick to the same angle. I wonder how many stacks would be feasible.


We haven't had a chance to go back to this yet, but we bring 6 healers and divide the raid into 8 groups of 3 people, with one group having 4 people. We put shadowpriests, boomkin and a shaman in that group.

Each group is in one single-file line, basically -- use the graphics on the floor to place people evenly.

Man I hate this fight.
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Re: questions re: al'akir 25

Postby superworm » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:07 am

Kerriodos wrote:We use the floor as a guide. There are black and white sections: we stack three people on each section (aim for one ranged, one melee, one healer/other ranged) with one or two having four (can't remember how many groups). Everyone has to be very careful not to chain the lightning to the group next to them.

The hunter used Disengage to get back on. A 'lock can do similarly with his demonic portal deal.


Sounds like a good idea. I think we will try this positioning next time.
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