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[25] Heroic Magmaw

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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby Kaory » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:29 am

Boss melee swings someone right after "kicking head" phase. I have really good reaction, but I can't save ppl from this accident deathes from time to time. Any suggestions how to solve this, please?
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:17 am

Kaory wrote:Boss melee swings someone right after "kicking head" phase. I have really good reaction, but I can't save ppl from this accident deathes from time to time. Any suggestions how to solve this, please?


We've been having this same problem on our attempts. We have the second tank taunt as the first tank is mangled (clearly showing him as top threat on Magmaw before he is impaled) and immediately after he becomes active again and we were still getting DPS gibbed. Eventually we settled on melee taking a few steps back so that the tank is the closest available target to Magmaw, and that seemed to resolve it.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby Brutalus » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:01 am

We just have tank 2 taunt him while tank 1 is being mangled - so at some point between the initial mangle and the vulnerability point. Hasn't ever been a problem for us - just bear in mind that threat dumps (vanish, invis) don't work on the boss' threat table during the vulnerability phase, at least our rogue reported that he overaggroed tank 2 while tank 1 was being mangled, vanished in the vulnerability phase, and still got gibbed by the boss after. As long as tank 2 has threat while tank 1 is mangled, he'll be the one getting hit.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby inthedrops » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:22 am

Yes, make sure melee aren't the closest players to the boss after head phase. However, I can assure you this isn't fool proof, but it DOES reduce the odds significantly.

I had some video parses when first learning the encounter (25+ videos) where upon review I was VERY CLEARLY the closest to the boss but a melee still got hit.

I saw no clear rhyme or reason but I am confident that being further than the tank eliminates most of it. In one case, the melee (a cat druid) got one tick of damage off at the exact same time the head phase ended and he got wacked (according to the timestamps in WoWLogs and confirmed in video) so I think that could have something to do with it too.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:28 am

inthedrops wrote:Yes, make sure melee aren't the closest players to the boss after head phase. However, I can assure you this isn't fool proof, but it DOES reduce the odds significantly.

I had some video parses when first learning the encounter (25+ videos) where upon review I was VERY CLEARLY the closest to the boss but a melee still got hit.

I saw no clear rhyme or reason but I am confident that being further than the tank eliminates most of it. In one case, the melee (a cat druid) got one tick of damage off at the exact same time the head phase ended and he got wacked (according to the timestamps in WoWLogs and confirmed in video) so I think that could have something to do with it too.


OK I'm glad that it's not just me taking crazy pills.

Are you doing any sort of tank switching before the first tank is mangled? We noticed that the mangled target is removed from the threat table, so any threat lead that the first tank has built up is lost. I was thinking that it may just be melee with DoTs that are out-threating the 2nd tank, since he is effectively taunting the boss off the highest threat DPS.

Interesting too that our feral is frequently the target who is hit with the melee swing.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby Dirke » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:13 am

As per the melee DPS getting gibbed by the boss during mangle phase: I tank magmaw the entire fight for my guild (yes with debuff) and about 2-4 seconds after i am picked up, roughly 1-2 seconds after i can cast again while in the mangle, i target magmaw, NOT THE HEAD, and taunt. About 95% of the time i grab aggro right back and shoot to the top of omen, then i just insure that am always in melee range before the exposed head phase ends

once i taunt at the beginning of the mangle phase i usually cast 1-2 exorcisms, judgment and then avengers shield.

TLDR: If you are tanking magmaw, taunt him just after mangle phase begins and make sure you are in melee range before exposed head phase ends, if taunts misses at the beginning then just retaunt when it comes off CD
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby inthedrops » Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:29 am

baleogthefierce wrote:
inthedrops wrote:Yes, make sure melee aren't the closest players to the boss after head phase. However, I can assure you this isn't fool proof, but it DOES reduce the odds significantly.

I had some video parses when first learning the encounter (25+ videos) where upon review I was VERY CLEARLY the closest to the boss but a melee still got hit.

I saw no clear rhyme or reason but I am confident that being further than the tank eliminates most of it. In one case, the melee (a cat druid) got one tick of damage off at the exact same time the head phase ended and he got wacked (according to the timestamps in WoWLogs and confirmed in video) so I think that could have something to do with it too.


OK I'm glad that it's not just me taking crazy pills.

Are you doing any sort of tank switching before the first tank is mangled? We noticed that the mangled target is removed from the threat table, so any threat lead that the first tank has built up is lost. I was thinking that it may just be melee with DoTs that are out-threating the 2nd tank, since he is effectively taunting the boss off the highest threat DPS.

Interesting too that our feral is frequently the target who is hit with the melee swing.


Well, we do things perhaps a bit unusually so bear with me while I try to answer your question.

First, we don't have any melee on the boss during non mangle phases except on the pull and at the last phase. We have two full time Magmaw tanks to share the debuff. What I do is I watch for the DBM message saying the other tank got picked up and taunt immediately. I have the boss taunted before the other tank actually flies up in the air (there's a delay from the emote to actually being mangled). This puts me at top of threat list.

So no, we don't do any switching before the first mangle. But we also don't need to because the melee is busy killing two skeletons.

The other reason we don't have melee on the boss, or pull skeletons onto the boss for cleave damage, is to reduce the chances of ignition patches around the spike on the floor. We tank the skeletons in roughly the center of the room (technically, that little broken patch in the floor slightly to the left). This means that we can:

A) Ensure that the two people chaining won't get dropped into an ignition patch and die.
B) Keeps that area fairly clear during head phases which makes DPS stronger due to less worry of ignition.

Again, I think we do things a bit oddly but it works for us.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:18 pm

inthedrops wrote:
baleogthefierce wrote:
inthedrops wrote:Yes, make sure melee aren't the closest players to the boss after head phase. However, I can assure you this isn't fool proof, but it DOES reduce the odds significantly.

I had some video parses when first learning the encounter (25+ videos) where upon review I was VERY CLEARLY the closest to the boss but a melee still got hit.

I saw no clear rhyme or reason but I am confident that being further than the tank eliminates most of it. In one case, the melee (a cat druid) got one tick of damage off at the exact same time the head phase ended and he got wacked (according to the timestamps in WoWLogs and confirmed in video) so I think that could have something to do with it too.


OK I'm glad that it's not just me taking crazy pills.

Are you doing any sort of tank switching before the first tank is mangled? We noticed that the mangled target is removed from the threat table, so any threat lead that the first tank has built up is lost. I was thinking that it may just be melee with DoTs that are out-threating the 2nd tank, since he is effectively taunting the boss off the highest threat DPS.

Interesting too that our feral is frequently the target who is hit with the melee swing.


Well, we do things perhaps a bit unusually so bear with me while I try to answer your question.

First, we don't have any melee on the boss during non mangle phases except on the pull and at the last phase. We have two full time Magmaw tanks to share the debuff. What I do is I watch for the DBM message saying the other tank got picked up and taunt immediately. I have the boss taunted before the other tank actually flies up in the air (there's a delay from the emote to actually being mangled). This puts me at top of threat list.

So no, we don't do any switching before the first mangle. But we also don't need to because the melee is busy killing two skeletons.

The other reason we don't have melee on the boss, or pull skeletons onto the boss for cleave damage, is to reduce the chances of ignition patches around the spike on the floor. We tank the skeletons in roughly the center of the room (technically, that little broken patch in the floor slightly to the left). This means that we can:

A) Ensure that the two people chaining won't get dropped into an ignition patch and die.
B) Keeps that area fairly clear during head phases which makes DPS stronger due to less worry of ignition.

Again, I think we do things a bit oddly but it works for us.


That is an interesting idea; it certainly would prevent a lot of the RNG deaths we've had thanks to the first 3 meteors selecting melee targets.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby Kerriodos » Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:52 pm

baleogthefierce wrote:
inthedrops wrote:Yes, make sure melee aren't the closest players to the boss after head phase. However, I can assure you this isn't fool proof, but it DOES reduce the odds significantly.

I had some video parses when first learning the encounter (25+ videos) where upon review I was VERY CLEARLY the closest to the boss but a melee still got hit.

I saw no clear rhyme or reason but I am confident that being further than the tank eliminates most of it. In one case, the melee (a cat druid) got one tick of damage off at the exact same time the head phase ended and he got wacked (according to the timestamps in WoWLogs and confirmed in video) so I think that could have something to do with it too.


OK I'm glad that it's not just me taking crazy pills.

Are you doing any sort of tank switching before the first tank is mangled? We noticed that the mangled target is removed from the threat table, so any threat lead that the first tank has built up is lost. I was thinking that it may just be melee with DoTs that are out-threating the 2nd tank, since he is effectively taunting the boss off the highest threat DPS.

Interesting too that our feral is frequently the target who is hit with the melee swing.


To deal with the melee deaths, we do a very fast taunt swap between the first and second add of each non-exposed phase. For example, if I'm on adds for this round, I'll tell the MT I'm taunting, taunt Magmaw, and have the boss for maybe a half a second before the MT taunts back. Then, when he gets mangled, the boss is already on me. He comes down, takes adds until the next mangle, and does the same thing. So long as a tank is in melee range, this solved all of our melee gib issues.

We avoid the melee fire by having two preset spots. If a meteor drops on the melee, they stack on the tank side. If a second one goes on the melee, just stand out for about 5-10 seconds and the first fire will despawn. Non-exposed head DPS is not a big portion of the fight.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby Kaory » Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:34 am

I'm taunting Magmaw when my char in his mouth right before boss gets impaled. Works OK.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby baleogthefierce » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:13 pm

Kerriodos wrote:To deal with the melee deaths, we do a very fast taunt swap between the first and second add of each non-exposed phase.


We ended up going with this strategy and got our kill tonight with no melee being dropped by Magmaw's melee swings, worked like a charm.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby Dravan » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:39 am

With the recent changes from the front page of MMO, namely:

Magmaw overall damage and health was a little too high on all difficulties and has been reduced slightly. In addition, on Heroic difficulty, Nefarian will now prefer ranged targets when spawning Blazing Bone Constructs.

I was wondering how much easier this is going to make the encounter in heroic? We haven't started working on it yet I was planning on leaving it until after we had dealt with Atramedes and Maloriak, but well from understand this change makes raid movement and positioning much much easier as you can all stack behind him and not risk fire spawning in the raid.

Can anyone with experience comment on the difference this will make to the fight?
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:29 am

Dravan wrote:With the recent changes from the front page of MMO, namely:

Magmaw overall damage and health was a little too high on all difficulties and has been reduced slightly. In addition, on Heroic difficulty, Nefarian will now prefer ranged targets when spawning Blazing Bone Constructs.

I was wondering how much easier this is going to make the encounter in heroic? We haven't started working on it yet I was planning on leaving it until after we had dealt with Atramedes and Maloriak, but well from understand this change makes raid movement and positioning much much easier as you can all stack behind him and not risk fire spawning in the raid.

Can anyone with experience comment on the difference this will make to the fight?


This basically trivializes the toughest part of the encounter, which was bad RNG lining up to move the melee group out of range of the boss. As it stands now, the only thing melee will need to do is stand in a clump and kill constructs. Nothing to dodge, nothing to worry about (other than the Massive Crash, but that's a normal mode ability too).

Only killed this twice, but I didn't think the constructs' ability to target melee was overly difficult to handle. The worst problem we had was when multiple constructs targeted melee during the same non-impaled phase and then the Pillar of Flame would target a melee as we ran out to avoid the fire, so maybe that sort of CF was the situation they were trying to avoid. The damage/HP nerfs seem unnecessary to me as well. The only damage that is remotely problematic is either having too many constructs alive or when Magmaw decides to sneak one last melee hit in on your tank after the Mangle is applied.
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby Non » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:32 am

How much Construct HP did they nerf on 25HC?
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Re: [25] Heroic Magmaw

Postby sakkdaddy » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:03 am

This also means that you can move your healers into the melee pile, and just make sure they don't stand far enough away to be valid targets for Constructs and Flame Pillars. Probably 8 people at range is enough, but you might as well just keep 9 dps + your kiter at range to make things even easier.

Those 9 dps at range can just stick together, and when a Construct spawns on one side of the room, they just move to the other side and won't have to worry about flames at all.
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