[10] Heroic Maloriak

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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Arianne » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:29 am

Although this is the 10 thread, you seem to be talking about 25. You shouldn't need more than 1 add tank. If your DPS on the vile swill is sufficiently high then you should try to let the first release aberrations cast go through and kill them during the vile swill portion. If you have a mage you can use ring of frost to freeze aberrations as new ones spawn. Thus you do 3 during dark phase and 6 during the 2nd Red/Blue phase. If Red comes first that means your add tank can also stack on the raid during scorching breath.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby ekhie » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:28 pm

Arianne wrote:Although this is the 10 thread, you seem to be talking about 25.

Yes, sorry about that - I didn't find a thread for 25-man and didn't want to create a new one.

You shouldn't need more than 1 add tank. If your DPS on the vile swill is sufficiently high then you should try to let the first release aberrations cast go through and kill them during the vile swill portion. If you have a mage you can use ring of frost to freeze aberrations as new ones spawn. Thus you do 3 during dark phase and 6 during the 2nd Red/Blue phase. If Red comes first that means your add tank can also stack on the raid during scorching breath.

It's up to your raid leader whether he wants to employ 2 add tanks or 1, so unfortunately that's out of my hands. :)

What you said about first 3 Aberrations though, is what I think we're going to do. If Maloriak doesn't release the first set before Black phase then reset the fight and try again, right? And I kinda agree that having 2 tanks tanking 3 adds each is a bit overkill so I'll recommend going with two tanks total (one on boss and one on adds).

Thanks for the tips and my apologies once again for discussing 25-man stuff on 10-man thread.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Belloc » Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:35 pm

ekhie wrote:
Arianne wrote:Although this is the 10 thread, you seem to be talking about 25.

Yes, sorry about that - I didn't find a thread for 25-man and didn't want to create a new one.

You shouldn't need more than 1 add tank. If your DPS on the vile swill is sufficiently high then you should try to let the first release aberrations cast go through and kill them during the vile swill portion. If you have a mage you can use ring of frost to freeze aberrations as new ones spawn. Thus you do 3 during dark phase and 6 during the 2nd Red/Blue phase. If Red comes first that means your add tank can also stack on the raid during scorching breath.

It's up to your raid leader whether he wants to employ 2 add tanks or 1, so unfortunately that's out of my hands. :)

What you said about first 3 Aberrations though, is what I think we're going to do. If Maloriak doesn't release the first set before Black phase then reset the fight and try again, right? And I kinda agree that having 2 tanks tanking 3 adds each is a bit overkill so I'll recommend going with two tanks total (one on boss and one on adds).

Thanks for the tips and my apologies once again for discussing 25-man stuff on 10-man thread.

If you're going to reset every time he doesn't release adds before the first dark magic phase, you're going to be resetting a lot. Better to allow two sets to release after you've AOEd everything down in the green phase. You should have enough time to kill them. Either that, or find another way to handle the adds. Resetting the fight will get old fast.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Arianne » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:25 pm

I don't think I've seen him not attempt to cast RA during the time before dark starts.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Repartee » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:16 pm

Arianne wrote:I don't think I've seen him not attempt to cast RA during the time before dark starts.


Speaking from a 10 man perspective, the percentage of times he does not cast RA easily outweighs the times he does cast it before the 1st dark phase. Our 10 man has 3 kills on Maloriak, and I can guess around 50 total attempts. Not a small enough sample size to discount.

Surely you must be thinking about the subsequent dark phases or our raids have been REALLY unlucky.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Repartee » Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:28 pm

kristoferpally wrote: FALSE. Those addons still work. You may need to check that you have out of date addons active or something. I dont use snowfall I use 'speedy actions' but I assure you these addons still work. Went and double checked now. Abilities going off on key press as normal.


I never even tried Snowfall. I went looking for a keypress addon when I realized how vital the timing of this interrupt is and Snowfall's user comments on Wowinterface were inundated with requests to update it because Cataclysm broke it. I was wrong in assuming that whole genre of addons were broken too.

Upon further reading the user comments, someone recommended to use Speedy Actions because it still works. I will give that a go for next raid.

Thanks for the heads-up.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby timoseewho » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:29 pm

Hello, superb information here by the way! My guild will be trying this tonight but I have 2 questions. Does he cast Remedy during the black vial phases? And if he DOES cast Release Aberrations before the black vial phase, does that mean he only casts it 5 more times in that vial cycle? Thanks!
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Arianne » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:25 pm

He usually doesn't cast remedy during the first black phase and usually does during the second black phase.

He still casts RA 6 times in the vial cycle.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Vissertje » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:32 pm

Hi guys, im RL+GM of my guild, we're currently struggling on Maloriak 10-man hardmode tho. Our raid setup is:
-Prot Pala
-Blood DK Tank
-Demo/destro Lock
-Fire Mage
-Rogue
-Fury warr
-Hunter
-Resto druid
-Holy pala
-Disc/Holy priest.

We are controlling the first black phase pretty good, slimes are down like 5-10 sec before first phase lands. Blue phase is a joke, nothing to struggle there.. But red phase on the other hand, we're using DG (prot pala) Aura mastery (holy pala) and Disc' priest Divine:Guardian' bubble, the timers arent shown on DBM and its like so random, so its hard to use any of those since they don't last for that long.. Any tips on this?
Then, the second black phase, sometimes bad, sometimes good.. it really depends on how the melee get hit by the black puddles on the floor, its really messed up. 1 pull goes good 1 pull goes bad..


Im switching between demo and destro since i don't exactly know what to use as destro aoe (immo+corr tab? cause RoF impossible since the adds are moving. Using shadowflame ofc)and demo takes alot of unneccesairy damage cause im moving while doing hellfire and felstorm with my pet, but due to that i can't clearly see where the puddles are..
And who should tank what? We currently have our Paladin on adds, but when 9 are up, he mostly dies whenever they reach him ( yea we use trap as much as possible, same for ring of frost). And he misses his Avengers Shield like..alot, while he has a higher hit rating the MT of Paragon (what's up with that?). Are DK's good AOE tanks since they can pop DnD and some blood boils to take aggro and Pala has better survivabilites during red phases.

So if someone please could give me some tips about who tanks what, why pala misses, what spec I should use, etc would be very helpful,

Thanks ! Vissertje!
*BTW no struggles last phase, xcept for blue orbs but that's individual vision obv.)
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Belloc » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:47 pm

The timer for Scorching Blast is shown on DBM. The first cast will sometimes be cast before it comes off cooldown (which also means that you'll be getting a third cast), but it's very easy to have cooldowns up if you're watching that timer. Generally, what you will see is... release aberration, arcane AOE, scorching blast. It's a good idea to pop your first cooldown as soon as you see that arcane AOE. And, like I said, if it gets cast before then, you know that you'll get a third.

As far as puddles go... have your rogue keep feint up and have the rest of them set up a power aura for the puddle debuff so that they can immediately identify that it is on them.

When I was playing my warlock on this fight (demo), I would use demon form on the first set of swills, I'd stay within immo aura range, but to the side of the adds, and I'd be using hellfire. In all honesty, if you can't see the puddles, watch your debuff list (or set a power aura). As soon as that debuff appears, you move. Also, if you keep shadow ward up, your damage intake won't be all that bad.

I can't tell you anything about your tanking choices, as we don't use a DK. I'd imagine that a DK would be great at grabbing the adds (two single target taunts + ranged AOE's + ranged single targets), but I can't say anything about their survivability. The goal, really, is that the adds don't all catch the tank. If a tank gets hit by all the adds, he's probably dead.


It sounds to me like your raid's reaction time to puddles is one of your main issues. Setting up a power aura will be a huge help for players having problems with that. If they don't use power auras (THEY SHOULD!), then watching the debuff list works almost as well.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Ezelyn » Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:26 am

Vissertje wrote:And who should tank what? We currently have our Paladin on adds, but when 9 are up, he mostly dies whenever they reach him ( yea we use trap as much as possible, same for ring of frost). And he misses his Avengers Shield like..alot, while he has a higher hit rating the MT of Paragon (what's up with that?). Are DK's good AOE tanks since they can pop DnD and some blood boils to take aggro and Pala has better survivabilites during red phases.


There is two way you can try, and see what you prefer.

1) If you let your DK on maloriak he will be incredibly powerfull in blackphase (AMS + self heal). Your tankadin will take less dammage (than a dk) on vile + 3 aberration (or 2 if you burn one at spawn) but he will have less threat output (since you've got tricks, that shouldnt be a problem for your comp).
When you arrive in red phase, if your timers goes wrong you can use his Dot : Push your raidCD 2sec after it and you will be fine. (your healadin will have a little more trouble since its only 6sec, but really it's not hard)

When you cant do 3 aberrations during blackphase (it happens a lot) the fact is : no-one can tank 9 aberrations. That means : your palatank should never try to go melee them when the last 3 spawns. He can taunt from far when he misses 1 or 2 and they are on a healer (or let them on him if it's on the healadin he will be fine!). If you let them spawn on the last sequence, you've got only 20-30sec to manage with 9 aberrations.
Your mage will be incredibly helpfull : nova, dragon breath and RoF, he can help a lot. He should be helping your tank even when you've got only 6 aberrations. If the 6 are CC'ed when the last 3 spawn, its safer for your tankadin to take the last 3 remaining and start "kitting"+ cc.

In our pull, we prefer doing that like this :
realease 3 before blackphase, one or 2 melees takes 1 aberation on a side and kill it (a solo aberration dont hurt at all if you can use some stun)*
the offtank takes the other 2 and let them with vile in the aoe phase. When melees finished the first aberration they can come in the aoe phase.
After that, we've got only 6 aberrations to manage waiting the green phase, it's really safer.

When maloriak doesnt release anything before black, we let 6 aberrations spawn during frost phase (it the easiest moment for your offtank to take them, because your healers arn't pushing a lot of heal-threat) and only 3 during fire phase.

I've done this fight as a tank, and i think the problem is : when you are offtank, you think you have to get all aberrations just after they spawn, so you cross the map, you let some aberrations hit your back, you dont really care about cc and slow until you've got treat on the 9 etc... it's a misstake. Because even with 1 or 2 aberrations on your healers, they will be fine (if you NEVER come near them with your 6 adds or you will kill him). So if your tankadin miss avenger shield, he can judge one from far and taunt a second. The third will enjoy his time on your drood or your healadin if he taunts it. He should just wait to have his taunt back and recup the missed one.
Dont panic when all the 9 arn't in a same pack before green, maybe 1 or 2 will be on your healer. When green starts, everybody with an aberation come near stairs => you start aoe. Sure, your palatank will no have enought threat on the 9 but it's ok. Put a frost trap under the 9 and finish the last remaining when they've got their buff again. (your rogue can trick your mage if you want to be sure they dont hit your warrior at all)



2) if you want to have your dk as offtank, he will take a lot more dammage (no shieldblock). The only good point will be that your tankadin can take a solo breath (under AD) which means you've got only 1 or 2 on your raid. But i really think the first method is easier with you raid comp.


Hope that will helps you.
And as always, sorry for my so poor english...
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:39 am

Since you have a hunter, have him drop a frost trap and kite the mobs around the edge of it non-stop whenever there are 6 adds up. The mage and rogue can be very helpful too, but all you really need is a frost trap. Picking up adds 7-8-9 as they spawn is no picnic, but as long as they don't beeline for Maloriak they're fine ralaring until green; in fact, your fury warrior should probably plan on picking up a couple of the late ones and keeping them away from the others whenever you need to release 9 adds.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Vissertje » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:12 am

Thanks guys, i will look forward whenever we can do Maloriak HC again :) awesome tips.

PsiVen wrote:Since you have a hunter, have him drop a frost trap and kite the mobs around the edge of it non-stop whenever there are 6 adds up. The mage and rogue can be very helpful too, but all you really need is a frost trap. Picking up adds 7-8-9 as they spawn is no picnic, but as long as they don't beeline for Maloriak they're fine ralaring until green; in fact, your fury warrior should probably plan on picking up a couple of the late ones and keeping them away from the others whenever you need to release 9 adds.



what did you mean with "kite the mobs around the edge of it", the Pala tank I assume? And at the edge, not through the middle and re-trap?
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Belloc » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:11 am

Vissertje wrote:Thanks guys, i will look forward whenever we can do Maloriak HC again :) awesome tips.

PsiVen wrote:Since you have a hunter, have him drop a frost trap and kite the mobs around the edge of it non-stop whenever there are 6 adds up. The mage and rogue can be very helpful too, but all you really need is a frost trap. Picking up adds 7-8-9 as they spawn is no picnic, but as long as they don't beeline for Maloriak they're fine ralaring until green; in fact, your fury warrior should probably plan on picking up a couple of the late ones and keeping them away from the others whenever you need to release 9 adds.



what did you mean with "kite the mobs around the edge of it", the Pala tank I assume? And at the edge, not through the middle and re-trap?

If you kite through the middle, the adds will eventually catch up to you. If you kite around the edge, you are actually kiting further. Think of the trap as a circle. It takes longer to run around the edge of the circle than it does to run through the middle.
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Re: [10] Heroic Maloriak

Postby Vissertje » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:29 am

ah damn, you're right! We had our Pala tank "pingponging" from the Westside to the Eastside, back and forth but he got hit while he crossed them in the middle where we had the trap on. For example:

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| >>>>>>>>>>>>v|
| ^------------------------v|
| ^------------------------v| <--- Correct kite path (kinda) ? Cause we did from Left to Right
| ^------------------------v|
| <<<<<<<<<<<<v|
| Ranged+Healers |
|------------------------ |
|------------------------ |
| Tank + Boss |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||




Lol @ drawing ><
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