Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby sakkdaddy » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:33 am

We are very close to a kill, but don't raid many hours a week and it only takes a few personal failures to wipe on this. I am actually thinking that this fight is more difficult to execute than others like Maloriak and Chimaeron, but the gear check is more forgivable maybe. Here's our setup:

3 tanks (1 Anshal, 2 Nezir)
1 frost DK kiting (me)

Anshal's Platform:
Prot Warrior
Holy Paladin
Frost DK kiting, tank gear + hit cap (me)
6 dps

Rohash's Platform:
3 healers
9 dps

Nezir's Platform:
2 tanks (they go to Anshal to clear debuffs)
3 healers

On specials there are only 3 people each on Anshal and Rohash's platforms. 2 rogues and a resto druid on Rohash, and our tank, kiter, and healer on Anshal.

We load up more dps on Rohash, but have them switch to Nezir earlier than Anshal's does to balance things out (about 70 energy, Anshal goes at 90).

We have moonkins use Stampeding Roar as each special on Nezir is ending to get people spread back out quickly because ice patches are really dangerous at that point.

Healer trading has to be flexible, but it's basically pairs of healers on Nezir and Rohash's platforms trading. One pair trades at 45 energy, one pair at 55ish energy, and one pair (resto druids) at 65ish energy.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:20 pm

That is exactly how I would do it sakkdaddy, except maybe have one more healer on anshal, take 1 from nezir if need be. or at least have 2 for the ultimate. He does hit pretty hard. While you can get away with one healer, its not worth risking.

Or if you are comfortable with it just add an extra healer period.

I haven't killed it yet, because of " strategy" reasons but I would do it just like you are if I had the choice.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby sakkdaddy » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:18 am

Yep, we killed it. We had to grind this boss for 82 wipes though first. 1 Healer on Anshal was plenty, but we were missing a paladin one day so just put a druid there healing, and did some taunting back and forth after Zephyr was over in lieu of a 2minute healer cooldown on our Anshal tank.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:39 pm

Well Sakdaddy, hopefully it wont take us as many wipes, since we have all this awesome information out there from people who have already killed it.

I just wanted to verify some stuff that I was reading on wowhead. It seems like the Permafrost doesn't do any more damage on heroic than on normal? The wind chill does inscreased damage though. Also really the sleet storm isn't as deadly as we're thinking if again according to wowhead does the same amount of damage in all difficulties split amongst raid members.

On Rohash was your reasoning for leaving 3 people there just so one person didn't get chain sliced over and over again until others got back there?

On Anshal about how far did you get him down after each ultimate? Cause I was seeing like 15-20 percent in most videos.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby inthedrops » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:07 pm

2Cute2BeStr8 wrote:I just wanted to verify some stuff that I was reading on wowhead. It seems like the Permafrost doesn't do any more damage on heroic than on normal? The wind chill does inscreased damage though. Also really the sleet storm isn't as deadly as we're thinking if again according to wowhead does the same amount of damage in all difficulties split amongst raid members.


Each of these on their own isn't deadly. What you may find happens frequently, is that people aren't topped off after sleet storm, they start heading back to their platforms, and a Permafrost spawns under them.

I will tell you with experience that people need to be trained to not even look at their health bars in this situation. If you're leaving the ultimate, and Permafrost lands under your toes, eat your damn healthstone.

It's a very easy way to lose someone.

It took us about 110 attempts. But we rotated a lot of people off the wind platform who couldn't do it reliably until we finally had people with enough experience/non-failness that they woudl not die. If your wind platform does better than ours in regard to avoiding blast/tornado than you'll cut down your attempts in half.

Once you're hitting enrage, it means you got it. And all you have to figure out at that point is the DPS balance + shuffle game to get the timing right.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby sakkdaddy » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:40 am

I don't know the numbers, but everything definitely does more damage on heroic. Ice patches after the ultimates were killers, but we set up a Stampeding Roar rotation with our druids that worked out really well.

Another thing to help you out when planning cooldowns, is that it's not quite 2 minutes between specials. It's more like 1:55-1:57. they last 15 seconds, so if possible, plan cooldowns for each to chain into each other. The first and last tics of damage are the most crucial imo to prevent deaths.

Also make sure that your healer switches are timed well so that their wind chill stacks fall off each round. This means switching platforms between 40-60 energy for the stack to fall off in time for the healer to come back to Nezir.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby Brutalus » Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:07 am

On the subject of tank cooldowns:

Not sure if it's already posted, but the 4set is great for tanking Anshal when he's empowered and hitting like a truck. I tank Anshal at the start and then go to Nezir when Anshal is at ~88 energy, using a Divine Protection for the breath immediately after the ultimate. I then get back to Anshal when Nezir is at ~88 energy and GoAK lasts me through the whole empower if I use it 3 seconds before he finishes casting his ultimate to ensure it gets up in time. This rotation means that I can save Ardent Defender for whenever something bad happens and I can bubble off my Nezir stacks during one of his breaths. It also means that at no point am I even close to dying, which (for me) leans in favor of mastery stacking (or some hit/expertise stacking).

Also, don't neglect to bring a dps weapon along with avalanche/landslide on it for tanking Anshal, since his damage is definately not intense.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby Kerriodos » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:59 am

I will echo Brutalus' suggestion of 4pc for the Anshal tank: that and a dodge trinket trivialized post-Zephyr damage for the most part, even surviving without a healer at all on one attempt.

Our strategy seems similar to the OP, where we run three tanks. Our druid DPS's on the wind platform, relieving the DK on frost before ultimate so he can come to nature for the Ultimate and drop his stacks. On the second Ultimate, he takes Anshal just before they reach full power so the Anshal tank (myself) can move to Nezir's platform and raidwall the Sleet Storm--this is also because GoAK is down while his Icebound Fortitude is ready to go.

I've a video here from my perspective of our kill, where I follow the above strategy.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLpVN0OrYNM) I move a lot because I had something of a rhythm on Soothing Breezes and needed him in certain places at certain times; also, I assumed at all times he would drop the Breeze under himself and wanted him moving ASAP if that was the case. I also kite to a third position for Nurture, as our kiter had some issues picking up adds if they spawned in the middle of the raid. Also, please ignore my cooldowning errors on the last Ultimate (specifically that I didn't use them); I was tunnelvisioning on the timers and praying that we could kill it in time. :P

A suggestion for anyone just starting to learn the fight: BigWigs doesn't--at least by default--have a timer for Soothing Breeze, but the first one happens 15 seconds into the fight, and every 30 seconds after that. Only one exists at a time, and you can plan to move to where one is already when the next one is cast. I found the stopwatch invaluable for developing my movement rhythm on our first few pulls and it definitely paid off--you can see in the video that on a few of the breezes I start moving before he even starts casting, because I know it's coming.

Also, this didn't work as well on our kill as on previous attempts, but you can make him step back our of the way of the kite path by stepping into him. This frees up a lot of room for your already-stressed DK to move.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby exiledknight » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:20 am

Does anyone know how forgiving it would be to 8 heal? The issue we are having at this point is two fold, some attempts its healing during the sleet storm where others it is directly after it, the second is some attempts our holy priest on east dies shortly after the ultimate. What I am thinking of is going to a 8th healer, leave 2 on east, and 3 both north and east. Right before the ult have the east and north swap(2 at 70 and one at 80) and send one from the west to go over. Has anyone tried this at all?
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby Brutalus » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:33 am

Does anyone know how forgiving it would be to 8 heal? The issue we are having at this point is two fold, some attempts its healing during the sleet storm where others it is directly after it, the second is some attempts our holy priest on east dies shortly after the ultimate. What I am thinking of is going to a 8th healer, leave 2 on east, and 3 both north and east. Right before the ult have the east and north swap(2 at 70 and one at 80) and send one from the west to go over. Has anyone tried this at all?


We haven't tried it, but I can probably offer some insight into how we heal it and maybe it'll help. We didn't feel that 3 healers was necessary at Rohash at the start of the fight, since generally people either died or didn't die if the shield was or wasn't killed fast enough. We had 2 on Rohash and Anshal at the start and 3 on Nezir. We had disc priest + holy paladin on Anshal and the priest had atonement specced so helped us out with the dps there too. Before the ultimate, the holy paladin on Anshal switches with the holy paladin on Nezir and one healer from Rohash goes to Nezir.

We also had problems with the lone healer at Rohash during the ultimate, our conclusion was to send our shadowpriests (we have 2) over there as the melee left the platform so that the slicing gale stacks could be split (and that they can do self-healing-stuff and levitate themselves and disperse if needed), which I think is where the 8th healer comes in in your description. They'd start on Nezir, so that we didn't lose large amounts of dps there. I assume that it's not the wind blast your priest is dying to, but our priests were talking about grips over there, so I assume that's to facilitate wind blast dodging.

For the Nezir ultimate, make sure that you've got cooldowns sorted for each one. We aimed at having only 3 and it worked for us, we used 7 healers. Our cooldowns went:

Ultimate 1: Aura Mastery + Resto Tranq + Divine Guardian
Ultimate 2: Aura Mastery + Boomkin Tranq + Divine Hymn
Ultimate 3: Aura Mastery + Bloodlust + Divine Guardian

I think we probably used a PW:Barrier in there somewhere, probably on the second, but I can't be sure. Be careful here that you're not chaining cooldowns on top of each other, since the phase lasts 15 seconds it's probably best to avoid stacking them, and have one that lasts a couple of seconds after the phase ends to top people up before the ice patch comes.

Back on topic, we did once get some alts in to go with 8 healers but we deduced that it wasn't really necessary (for us) since it usually involved unnecessary healer stacking at Anshal. On our kill, we had 3 empower phases, and with 7 healers were very close to not making the 60second burn timer. We killed off Rohash 5 seconds before his shield came up (after the 3rd ultimate) and Nezir died about 5 seconds later. We then all moved to Anshal who was at 40-50%ish and killed him with 1.3 seconds until Rohash finished his 60sec channel, so it was very close. I can't really say if your raid dps is better than ours, nor which one you are killing last, but at least on our kill it wouldn't have been a kill with 8 healers, and we couldn't realistically have waited any longer with killing Rohash due to the Storm Shield. I suppose we could have left him at 1mil hp pre Ultimate and burned the shield down afterwards and then waited til Anshal was as low as possible before killing him. Also, the less dps you need to burn Rohash's shield, the more dps you can put on the other 2 to get them lower for the burn phase, so that could well compensate for the 8th healer.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby exiledknight » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:04 am

Has anyone spoken at length with healers, or are there any healers that have done the east.....we have at least 4 healers who just cannot understand the way the blast works and constantly get hit with it. That is all that is holding us back from a kill at this time.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby Belloc » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:23 am

exiledknight wrote:Has anyone spoken at length with healers, or are there any healers that have done the east.....we have at least 4 healers who just cannot understand the way the blast works and constantly get hit with it. That is all that is holding us back from a kill at this time.

If you're talking about the wind blast... how can anyone be having trouble with that? He faces a direction and moves clockwise. It's probably the most obvious mechanic in the fight.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby exiledknight » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Belloc wrote:
exiledknight wrote:Has anyone spoken at length with healers, or are there any healers that have done the east.....we have at least 4 healers who just cannot understand the way the blast works and constantly get hit with it. That is all that is holding us back from a kill at this time.

If you're talking about the wind blast... how can anyone be having trouble with that? He faces a direction and moves clockwise. It's probably the most obvious mechanic in the fight.


If I could explain it, well I fully agree with you, and that is why we are heavily recruiting healers, I should make a soundboard or something of the excuses, they are mostly ridiculous, apparantly he jukes, he faces one way then spins 180 degrees, and completely randomly casts the direction of it....Figured maybe, just maybe I was somehow missing something since I went there for a few pulls to try and see what they did and only got hit once...and that was when I was laughing so hard that we somehow pulled with our one healer on the west afk.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby inthedrops » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:00 pm

He does Juke, that's not a fake excuse. And it catches people off guard. However, I've never actually SEEN it since I am never over there. But my GM plays a rogue on that platform, she NEVER gets hit, and she's acknowledged the juke and not faulted people when it happens. She seems to still be able to avoid it but I'm not sure what she's doing (she's very talented as far as self awareness + coordinating the issues during a fight goes).

But there shouldn't be any excuse otherwise! It will always boil down to some people being better, or learning quicker than others.
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Re: Heroic Conclave of the four winds 25 man

Postby exiledknight » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:22 pm

Ok well, at least the juke is confirmed, again I was just hoping for a trick, or some validation to what I am being told, as cleaning up the wind blasts is currently the limiting factor. Depending on how many bite it on the first blast, we have been seeing 2 ultimates, appear ahead of the enrage and are bringing rohash and anshal down evenly while getting a solid burn in on nezir.
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