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[10] Heroic Chimaeron

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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Marcelle » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:06 am

Gab wrote:Having a tank with 4 breaks during fueds is not ideal at all.


A 50% damage reduction mathematically cancels out 4 stacks of Break (2x/2 = x). I wouldn't call it absolutely ideal/optimal, but proper cooldown use made it very much doable. It meant they were unavailable for the burn phase, which is the primary drawback I see to this method, but as I was the second tank to receive Chimaeron during the burn phase and they did 12% of him before I got to start tanking, it didn't seem too bad. I had Divine Protection up again and Ardent Defender, plus my dodge trinket for that. I died at 3% and the mage's mirror images "tanked" the rest.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Gab » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:00 am

Marcelle wrote:A 50% damage reduction mathematically cancels out 4 stacks of Break


IIRC you are attacked 4 times during Fued each attack about 5 seconds apart.

Massacre - Normal - Double - Normal - Normal - Massacre

So even if you are rocking 4 pc you can't cover all 4 of those with GAnK. And GAnK will be down for the next 1-2 Fueds depending on how soon they come. Also you will come out of the Fued while still having 4 break stacks and be tanking double attacks with 4 break stacks... I don't see why you just don't alternate Fued tanks. If it works for you then go for it, just not the best advice to give to folks trying to progress on this fight as like I said before it will make the fight unnecessarily harder and reliant on RNG.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Kaory » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:50 am

We r killing Chimaeron in such way:

During feud there are always only one double attack and there will be no swaps for it.

Before feud:
1st tank - Boss: ~3 breaks
2nd tank - DAs : 0 breaks

Feud:
1st tank - doing nothing.
2nd tank - BOSS. Big CD on 1st DA + external sacrifice/ps. 2nd DA during feud is irrelevant and you shouldn't worry at all.

After feud:
1st tank - DAs: still have breaks for first double attack and should use Ardent Defender or Guardian Spirit, or simply BResed on fail.
2nd tank - Boss.

Repeat.
Works perfectly.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby PsiVen » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:50 am

Gab wrote:
Marcelle wrote:A 50% damage reduction mathematically cancels out 4 stacks of Break


IIRC you are attacked 4 times during Fued each attack about 5 seconds apart.

Massacre - Normal - Double - Normal - Normal - Massacre

So even if you are rocking 4 pc you can't cover all 4 of those with GAnK. And GAnK will be down for the next 1-2 Fueds depending on how soon they come. Also you will come out of the Fued while still having 4 break stacks and be tanking double attacks with 4 break stacks... I don't see why you just don't alternate Fued tanks. If it works for you then go for it, just not the best advice to give to folks trying to progress on this fight as like I said before it will make the fight unnecessarily harder and reliant on RNG.


The hit sequence goes like this:
:00 - Massacre lands
:05 - Normal Hit
:10 - Normal Hit (+1 Break)
:15 - Double Attack (+25%)
:20 - Normal Hit (+25%)
:25 - Normal Hit (+25%, +1 Break)
:30 - Massacre lands

It is a common strategy to do it the stated way and hope you don't get 4-Break in a Feud, because if you do the only way to survive is to get lucky. Most Chimaeron strategies rely on RNG luck to a degree anyway, so it's not that much of a jump. What I'm curious about is how people are safely getting topped off at the start of the Feud -and- using cooldowns during Double Attacks. Certainly a tank with 4 stacks of break isn't going to contribute much to his self-healing even with an EG proc or DP.

For our part, we always use a GS/LoH for the first hit with AD as backup, and our hunter's pet Intervenes each double attack with DR cooldowns through the Feud. The Feud tank / Double Attack tank rotate with a DPS DK doing MT/break duty. I think this is the safest and best way to do it, as the only RNG deaths are "lol Regrowth didn't crit" and "was that a 5th 60-second Feud?"
Last edited by PsiVen on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby 99sitr » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:31 pm

Gab wrote:
Marcelle wrote:A 50% damage reduction mathematically cancels out 4 stacks of Break


IIRC you are attacked 4 times during Fued each attack about 5 seconds apart.

Massacre - Normal - Double - Normal - Normal - Massacre

So even if you are rocking 4 pc you can't cover all 4 of those with GAnK. And GAnK will be down for the next 1-2 Fueds depending on how soon they come. Also you will come out of the Fued while still having 4 break stacks and be tanking double attacks with 4 break stacks... I don't see why you just don't alternate Fued tanks. If it works for you then go for it, just not the best advice to give to folks trying to progress on this fight as like I said before it will make the fight unnecessarily harder and reliant on RNG.


My experience is the same as what Psiven is describing as well, I found that waiting 2 seconds after massacre was beneficial to cover the melee hits with 1 CD of Gank or AD followed by DP.

I kept getting Normal, Normal, Double, Normal, Normal. The danger phase of Feud was lasting right at 20 seconds worth of attacks (see below) with me coming out regularly with 2 stacks (acquiring last stack right before the Bile-O-Tron 800 comes back online.


[19:50:17.746] Chimaeron gains Feud from Chimaeron
[19:50:17.988] Bile-O-Tron 800 gains Systems Failure from Bile-O-Tron 800
[19:50:18.472] Chimaeron Massacre Vonkaiser 178432 (A: 721567)
[19:50:19.297] Bile-O-Tron 800's Finkle's Mixture fades from Bile-O-Tron 800
[19:50:19.308] Bile-O-Tron 800's Finkle's Mixture fades from Vonkaiser
[19:50:22.557] Chimaeron's Feud fades from Chimaeron
[19:50:22.924] Chimaeron hits Vonkaiser Dodge
[19:50:27.699] Chimaeron hits Vonkaiser Dodge
[19:50:27.789] Vonkaiser afflicted by Break from Chimaeron
[19:50:32.515] Chimaeron hits Vonkaiser Dodge
[19:50:32.585] Chimaeron hits Vonkaiser Parry
[19:50:37.336] Chimaeron hits Vonkaiser 50365 (A: 24248, B: 51850)
[19:50:42.160] Chimaeron hits Vonkaiser 96660 (A: 4801, B: 70507)
[19:50:42.441] Vonkaiser afflicted by Break (2) from Chimaeron
[19:50:43.852] Bile-O-Tron 800 gains Finkle's Mixture from Bile-O-Tron 800
[19:50:43.852] Bile-O-Tron 800's Systems Failure fades from Bile-O-Tron 800
[19:50:44.174] Vonkaiser gains Finkle's Mixture from Bile-O-Tron 800
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Gab » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:10 pm

PsiVen wrote:The hit sequence goes like this:
:00 - Massacre lands
:05 - Normal Hit
:10 - Normal Hit (+1 Break)
:15 - Double Attack (+25%)
:20 - Normal Hit (+25%)
:25 - Normal Hit (+25%)
:30 - Massacre lands

It is a common strategy to do it the stated way and hope you don't get 4-Break in a Feud, because if you do the only way to survive is to get lucky. Most Chimaeron strategies rely on RNG luck to a degree anyway, so it's not that much of a jump. What I'm curious about is how people are safely getting topped off at the start of the Feud -and- using cooldowns during Double Attacks. Certainly a tank with 4 stacks of break isn't going to contribute much to his self-healing even with an EG proc or DP.

For our part, we always use a GS/LoH for the first hit with AD as backup, and our hunter's pet Intervenes each double attack with DR cooldowns through the Feud. The Feud tank / Double Attack tank rotate with a DPS DK doing MT/break duty. I think this is the safest and best way to do it, as the only RNG deaths are "lol Regrowth didn't crit" and "was that a 5th 60-second Feud?"


Maybe I am missing something, not sure... If I am I aplogize. So you have only 1 "real tank" and a DPS DK? If this is the case then you are tanking several double attacks with what, two break stacks after the fueds? Do the break stacks fall off if you get 60 second fueds? Are you CTC capped? Just seems a lot more random than alternating fued tanks, or I'm just totally confused. If this actually works, it could be better a way of doing it.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby PsiVen » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:02 pm

There's two tanks, whoever gets Break from a Feud sits out DPSing until the next Feud. The DPS DK is always taking the normal Breaks. I don't run block capped on this, but I'm pretty close (95% gives about a .5% chance for a double-hit, which is still only dangerous if GAnK isn't up, and I never take doubles in Feud anyway thanks to Intervene).

Sorry, there are are in fact 2 Breaks from the Feud, edited above. From that log it also looks like the hits that apply Break do so before the damage lands, meaning the hit before DA is +25% and the last hit of the phase is +50%. This lines up with our experiences as well.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Gab » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:48 pm

Ahh ok, I thought you were talking about only using two tanks total. One "dps" tank and one regular tank, and having the regular tank tanking all DAs and fueds. My mistake.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby 99sitr » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:06 pm

Gab wrote:Ahh ok, I thought you were talking about only using two tanks total. One "dps" tank and one regular tank, and having the regular tank tanking all DAs and fueds. My mistake.


That has been done by a few guilds Gab but the RNG of it as far as feud tanking is too risky for my blood. Those that were successful utilized a tank death+Brez at part of their strategy to deal with that part.

We do the 2 true tanks and 1 dps tank strategy as well.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Gab » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:13 pm

Interesting. Yeah we killed it with two real tanks. Although I think the two tank, one "dps" tank method is better. Saves more CDs for p3 and the real tanks will have less break stacks going into p3. I think it gives a little more wiggle room.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Marcelle » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:58 pm

Gab wrote:Interesting. Yeah we killed it with two real tanks. Although I think the two tank, one "dps" tank method is better. Saves more CDs for p3 and the real tanks will have less break stacks going into p3. I think it gives a little more wiggle room.


I'm going to agree with you on this one now, despite supporting my originals post in this thread.

This is mostly related to the fact that this week our feral druid showed up this week, so we had him go bear in his DPS spec/gear and used him as the main/break tank, with the other tank and I switching for Feud/Double Attack duty based on stacks of break.

The difference was like night and day, I now genuinely understand why the method we used last week for our first kill was needlessly difficult.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby kristoferpally » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:47 pm

A tip to give more time in phase two in case dps lacks a lil is to have a healer taunt at max range right before the change and he goes immune. Having our holy pally taunt right before change and then bubbling so he goes back to the tank (me) then takes off his bubble, chimaeron kills him when he gets there then walks back to me, who bubbles, so then he walks to the other tank, I take off my bubble before he dies so we walks back to me. This whole sequence is a huge amount of time with your deeps staying alive killing him.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Gab » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:40 am

Marcelle wrote:
Gab wrote:Interesting. Yeah we killed it with two real tanks. Although I think the two tank, one "dps" tank method is better. Saves more CDs for p3 and the real tanks will have less break stacks going into p3. I think it gives a little more wiggle room.


I'm going to agree with you on this one now, despite supporting my originals post in this thread.

This is mostly related to the fact that this week our feral druid showed up this week, so we had him go bear in his DPS spec/gear and used him as the main/break tank, with the other tank and I switching for Feud/Double Attack duty based on stacks of break.

The difference was like night and day, I now genuinely understand why the method we used last week for our first kill was needlessly difficult.


I'm glad it helped and apologize if I came off a little harsh, I reread my posts and it could seem that way. Text is funny like that.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Dravan » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:24 am

My guild will be attempting Chimeron 25HC this Sunday, and this thread has been extremely helpful and I now feel pretty confident in how we will handle the various changes.

However I was wondering if someone could clarify a couple of points for me.

Firstly, did you guys say you push him after the massacre just before feud or the massacre as the bot comes back online? I saw someone mention 15 seconds to push him through after massacre but wasn't sure which one you meant.

Also I was wondering about pets. I have seen it mentioned you can use pets in p2 to eat double attacks, does that mean you just run the whole fight with your pet growl on and that is enough or is there another trick/spec for it.

Finally, I notice a poster a few above mentioned paladin healers taunting then bubbling just before you hit p2. Being as healers are worthless in p2 I also had this idea. Does anyone else do this and can confirm that it works ok?

Cheers.
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Re: [10] Heroic Chimaeron

Postby Gab » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:48 am

Dravan wrote:My guild will be attempting Chimeron 25HC this Sunday, and this thread has been extremely helpful and I now feel pretty confident in how we will handle the various changes.

However I was wondering if someone could clarify a couple of points for me.

Firstly, did you guys say you push him after the massacre just before feud or the massacre as the bot comes back online? I saw someone mention 15 seconds to push him through after massacre but wasn't sure which one you meant.

Also I was wondering about pets. I have seen it mentioned you can use pets in p2 to eat double attacks, does that mean you just run the whole fight with your pet growl on and that is enough or is there another trick/spec for it.

Finally, I notice a poster a few above mentioned paladin healers taunting then bubbling just before you hit p2. Being as healers are worthless in p2 I also had this idea. Does anyone else do this and can confirm that it works ok?

Cheers.


It is most common to push him after a Massacre as the Fued is starting. You will have 15 seconds to heal your group up to a reasonable amount of health and push him. This way your raid will not have the hit debuff, and everyone will have enough health to burn him.

Not sure about most pets, and I doubt growls will keep a pet higher than some of your dps. However a Hunter's turtle pet can intervene attacks, and can taunt when Chimaeron gets near p2.

As far as healers taunting it can be very helpful especially in 10 man. We have two of our healers taunt sometime when it's safe as we approach p2 (sub 30%). Just make sure they are not taunting during a double attack. It will buy you about 5 seconds per healer/pet taunt before dps start getting gibbed in p2 which is a lot of extra time if you have 2-3 healers/pets taunting.
Last edited by Gab on Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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