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[10] Nefarian: Suggestion

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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby maurok » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:18 am

PsiVen wrote:(...)
Ironically, the best way to deal with this is a strategy that was discussed here: Stack all the adds on the Nef tank and chain cooldowns until Onyxia is dead ASAP, with no electrocutes in P1. Onyxia's tank then tanks Nef in P3.

Though this strategy sounds fun (unless you're still learning the OT kiting in P3...) unfortunately this problem has already been hotfixed on US+EU as far as I am aware.


sry, I didn't get that... is that still viable? is it a good option?
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:45 am

maurok wrote:
PsiVen wrote:(...)
Ironically, the best way to deal with this is a strategy that was discussed here: Stack all the adds on the Nef tank and chain cooldowns until Onyxia is dead ASAP, with no electrocutes in P1. Onyxia's tank then tanks Nef in P3.

Though this strategy sounds fun (unless you're still learning the OT kiting in P3...) unfortunately this problem has already been hotfixed on US+EU as far as I am aware.


sry, I didn't get that... is that still viable? is it a good option?
No.

The post you quoted was a method to get around a bug that was preventing proper add behavior. It is not a proper way to execute the fight. You should still be using plate/feral dps to tank the adds or proper kiting/CC in phase 1.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby maurok » Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:33 am

being nef tank on P1 and add tank on P3... should I glyph Divine Protection?
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:14 am

Depends on what's killing you. I've not needed to, but your healers might appreciate the damage reduction.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:25 pm

You should definitely bring the exalted Tol Barad trinket, though. Electrocute? Trinket!
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:47 pm

maurok wrote:being nef tank on P1 and add tank on P3... should I glyph Divine Protection?


I would recommend it. Usually the large deficit created by Electrocute is what gets you when combined with the first set of melee swings from the adds, not the steady intake of add damage afterward. If the adds happen to be really high on energy or if you aren't topped off before Electrocute, use one of your three minute cooldowns to help keep yourself alive.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby PsiVen » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:45 pm

Belloc wrote:
maurok wrote:
PsiVen wrote:(...)
Ironically, the best way to deal with this is a strategy that was discussed here: Stack all the adds on the Nef tank and chain cooldowns until Onyxia is dead ASAP, with no electrocutes in P1. Onyxia's tank then tanks Nef in P3.

Though this strategy sounds fun (unless you're still learning the OT kiting in P3...) unfortunately this problem has already been hotfixed on US+EU as far as I am aware.


sry, I didn't get that... is that still viable? is it a good option?
No.

The post you quoted was a method to get around a bug that was preventing proper add behavior. It is not a proper way to execute the fight. You should still be using plate/feral dps to tank the adds or proper kiting/CC in phase 1.


Well sure, you could still do it this way. In my Nef HM research I have found logs of people skipping P1 shocks, but on Heroic it still takes so long to kill Onyxia that the adds' lives would be extended by tank breaths. On normal mode it should be fairly easy to kill her (without heroism) by the time the adds would be falling over anyway, and I imagine it would be less stressful on the healers than dealing with shocks. The only downside is that you spend more time in P3 with rapid Shadowblaze.

But this is only theory. If you want to be sure we will likely try it this week and I will let you know if it's madness after all :)
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby DexterBelgium » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:03 am

I've had the first reports of people successfully using the "no crackles in P1 or P2" strat to get 10m normal Nef down.

They did it with the Ony tank taking the adds in P1 (which was a DK rotating CDs). Experience seems to be that this makes raidhealing a LOT easier in P1 and P2, while putting a lot more stress on Ony-tank-healing, and, of course, prolonging P3 kiting. But, there, the message seems to be that once your kiter is good enough at it, kiting can theoretically go on forever.

Log of the kill by the people I got the report from, and a video (by a different raid) using the same tactic
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Epimer » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:46 am

DexterBelgium wrote:I've had the first reports of people successfully using the "no crackles in P1 or P2" strat to get 10m normal Nef down.

They did it with the Ony tank taking the adds in P1 (which was a DK rotating CDs). Experience seems to be that this makes raidhealing a LOT easier in P1 and P2, while putting a lot more stress on Ony-tank-healing, and, of course, prolonging P3 kiting.


Man, that seems like a really backwards way of handling Electrocutes to me. I've tanked and healed this fight, and raid healing in P1 is really, really not hard. A P2 Electrocute can be a little stressful but as long as interrupts are being done properly (and especially if you have a Divine Guardian available) it's not too bad. P3 is the phase in which - for us - the most things can potentially go wrong.

Whatever works for individual groups, I suppose.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:50 am

Epimer wrote:
DexterBelgium wrote:I've had the first reports of people successfully using the "no crackles in P1 or P2" strat to get 10m normal Nef down.

They did it with the Ony tank taking the adds in P1 (which was a DK rotating CDs). Experience seems to be that this makes raidhealing a LOT easier in P1 and P2, while putting a lot more stress on Ony-tank-healing, and, of course, prolonging P3 kiting.


Man, that seems like a really backwards way of handling Electrocutes to me. I've tanked and healed this fight, and raid healing in P1 is really, really not hard. A P2 Electrocute can be a little stressful but as long as interrupts are being done properly (and especially if you have a Divine Guardian available) it's not too bad. P3 is the phase in which - for us - the most things can potentially go wrong.

Whatever works for individual groups, I suppose.


The longer P3 add kiting is good practice for hard mode at any rate.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Crimsonheart » Fri May 06, 2011 5:14 pm

I have a question about Nef p1, I know ony does the electric and Tail slap... Is it possible to (for melee lite groups, I put our melee on Nef during p1) to position ONY such that her tail is always facing the group? or does the tail slap have to large of a range? (my off-tank is having trouble not electrocuting the group...)
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Chicken » Sat May 07, 2011 3:47 am

Crimsonheart wrote:I have a question about Nef p1, I know ony does the electric and Tail slap... Is it possible to (for melee lite groups, I put our melee on Nef during p1) to position ONY such that her tail is always facing the group? or does the tail slap have to large of a range? (my off-tank is having trouble not electrocuting the group...)
It is yes. If Ony and Nef are on the exact opposite ends of the ring, you can have Onyxia's tail turned towards Nef, and anyone standing at Nef's side will be out of range of her tail; anyone who is close enough to use abilities on either Onyxia or her tank will always be in range of her tail though.

I'd recommend just teaching your off-tank to turn Onyxia though. Constantly taking tail slaps on your Onyxia healer and any DPS that remain on Onyxia is a lot of unnecessary damage, and will frequently cause 10% Nef Zap + Tail Slap gibs to happen.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Crimsonheart » Sat May 07, 2011 12:07 pm

thank you for the response, That is what I thought but we were seeing maybe if it was like a 20yard range or something.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby PsiVen » Sat May 07, 2011 3:59 pm

It's about 50yd. Not a lot of places to hide from that tail.

baleogthefierce wrote:
Epimer wrote:
DexterBelgium wrote:I've had the first reports of people successfully using the "no crackles in P1 or P2" strat to get 10m normal Nef down.

They did it with the Ony tank taking the adds in P1 (which was a DK rotating CDs). Experience seems to be that this makes raidhealing a LOT easier in P1 and P2, while putting a lot more stress on Ony-tank-healing, and, of course, prolonging P3 kiting.


Man, that seems like a really backwards way of handling Electrocutes to me. I've tanked and healed this fight, and raid healing in P1 is really, really not hard. A P2 Electrocute can be a little stressful but as long as interrupts are being done properly (and especially if you have a Divine Guardian available) it's not too bad. P3 is the phase in which - for us - the most things can potentially go wrong.

Whatever works for individual groups, I suppose.


The longer P3 add kiting is good practice for hard mode at any rate.


We actually used this strategy for our HM kill tonight. I should have the video up shortly which should make for a pretty good demonstration :)

I tanked all 5 adds and Nefarian while the raid burned Onyxia, and then tanked adds in P3 from 98%-0%. I think they did 5-6 full resets and only clipped fire when I turned to try and land the killing blow on Nef.
Last edited by PsiVen on Wed May 11, 2011 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Técaro » Thu May 12, 2011 1:37 pm

If you have a link to yoru video, I'd greatly appreciate it. It's the same tactic we're trying to use for our hc kill. Our problem so far hasn't been with the adds though really but more our healers going oom by 50%. And random 140k crackles or crackles that kill topped off people.
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