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[10] Nefarian: Suggestion

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[10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Vomnar » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:48 am

When me and my guild reaches the last phase in this ecounter we have some struggles.
Since im a paladin tank my duty is to kite the skeletons. But my biggest problem with this is the flame "spit", or what you wish to call it, that reactivates the skeletons Energy.

Im having a very hard time actually seing were the spit is landing. I believe that the graphics that point out where it's supposed to land is to weak. Especially since the skeletons ALSO is purple.
I just dont understand why it cannot be as clear as the swirls in phase 1 which spawns the skeleton in the first place.
This would make my job extremely easier.

Is there anyone having the same problem?
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Arianne » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:56 pm

He sends the flames at the adds when he casts it. I never watch the point on the ground, I just watch the BW timers. If the shadowblaze timer is at 10s or less, you need to be moving the adds and they need to not be slowed.

edit: wrong timer name :x
Last edited by Arianne on Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Vomnar » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:37 am

So it is Shadowflame that is the spit then. I have had theories about that but never investigated it further.

Thx!
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:19 am

Vomnar wrote:So it is Shadowflame that is the spit then. I have had theories about that but never investigated it further.

Thx!

Shadowflame Breath is not the spit. The spit happens on a separate cooldown. He'll start off by casting the spit, then casting it again 30 seconds later, then 25 seconds later, then 20 seconds, then 15 seconds, and then every 10 seconds.

All you really need to do to avoid the fire is spend most of the fight walking backwards. If you stand in one place, you're never going to see the spit. If you're walking backwards, not only will it become visible (because the adds won't be standing in it), but it won't hit the adds, either.


Also, if you're having trouble with the adds, have the other tank do it. Paladins don't have any special advantage with add kiting. Furthermore, maybe your other tank would be able to see the spit location.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Repartee » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:55 am

The fire he casts at the adds is called Shadowblaze. I recently switched from deadlybossmods to BigWigs in order to have the timer for each cast. BigWigs also does a nice 5 second countdown of when to move. I noticed last night on my guild's 1st Nef kill, that he will cast the Shadowblaze at the end of BigWigs countdown. So I simply started moving when the countdown got to 2 just to be safe.

Remember the fire grows after landing, so park adds a safe distance before the next cast to allow the previous fire to grow without clipping any add. Obviously after the cooldown is down to the 10 second interval, you will moving quite often.

If you slow down your movement in this fashion (i.e. not constantly moving backward) while Nef is tanked in the middle, you have the entire outer ring to work. There's a good chance after making 1 lap that the first fires will have dissipated. If not, you can keep spiraling inward and be comfortable not passing over fires.

As pointed out in a couple other threads, tanking Nef in the middle for phase 3 is ideal. The only adjustment the Nef tank will have to make it to flip Nef 180 degrees when the add tank is nearing the side of Nef's head. Can't let Nef's breath reset the adds' energy bars to full.

Also note it's wise to have the add tank's healer(s) moving ahead of his kite path. IIRC, after the fire lands it follows the nearest person. You want that person to be the add tank to prevent the fire from spreading inward.

Hope this helps. Previous posters in other Nef threads were spot on.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby VikrumthePally » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:04 am

Repartee wrote:The fire he casts at the adds is called Shadowblaze. I recently switched from deadlybossmods to BigWigs in order to have the timer for each cast. BigWigs also does a nice 5 second countdown of when to move. I noticed last night on my guild's 1st Nef kill, that he will cast the Shadowblaze at the end of BigWigs countdown. So I simply started moving when the countdown got to 2 just to be safe.

Remember the fire grows after landing, so park adds a safe distance before the next cast to allow the previous fire to grow without clipping any add. Obviously after the cooldown is down to the 10 second interval, you will moving quite often.

If you slow down your movement in this fashion (i.e. not constantly moving backward) while Nef is tanked in the middle, you have the entire outer ring to work. There's a good chance after making 1 lap that the first fires will have dissipated. If not, you can keep spiraling inward and be comfortable not passing over fires.

As pointed out in a couple other threads, tanking Nef in the middle for phase 3 is ideal. The only adjustment the Nef tank will have to make it to flip Nef 180 degrees when the add tank is nearing the side of Nef's head. Can't let Nef's breath reset the adds' energy bars to full.

Also note it's wise to have the add tank's healer(s) moving ahead of his kite path. IIRC, after the fire lands it follows the nearest person. You want that person to be the add tank to prevent the fire from spreading inward.

Hope this helps. Previous posters in other Nef threads were spot on.


I can confirm this as being a great approach. My guild reached Nef p3 stable about 6 times in a row Sunday night. We had the healing, the dps, everything needed to down Nef. The only problem was the add tank -- Me!

After doing some research, we go into Nef last night and kill him on our 3rd try. 1 wipe in p2, 1 wipe in p3, 1 omg this is a million times easier win.

Also if you have a holy Pally they are money for moving with you. And again as advised tell whatever healer is with you to be in front of you, not trying to trail from behind.

Good luck!
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:56 am

Repartee wrote:
Also note it's wise to have the add tank's healer(s) moving ahead of his kite path. IIRC, after the fire lands it follows the nearest person. You want that person to be the add tank to prevent the fire from spreading inward.

The fire doesn't actually follow anyone -- it just expands in several directions.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Loras » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:46 pm

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but how do you actually handle P1 on 10 man if you don't have a plate melee dpser? We are having a warrior with 1h + shield tank/kite adds and them dying bunched together, can imagine that being done by a dps DK in blood presence, or by a ret pally with RF on and 1h + shield, or maybe feral druid in bear form, but what happens if you have, let's say, enh shaman + rogue?
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:55 pm

Loras wrote:Sorry for hijacking the thread, but how do you actually handle P1 on 10 man if you don't have a plate melee dpser? We are having a warrior with 1h + shield tank/kite adds and them dying bunched together, can imagine that being done by a dps DK in blood presence, or by a ret pally with RF on and 1h + shield, or maybe feral druid in bear form, but what happens if you have, let's say, enh shaman + rogue?

Use as much CC as possible the whole time. Kiting is also an option. You would probably sacrifice add death positioning, which shouldn't be too big a deal.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Ulrik » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:16 am

I just start the game stopwatch and remember the cast times so I know when safe times to stun/cc and run are.

Starting with the first Shadowbolt they come out 5 sec quicker each one until they're 10 sec apart.

0:00 - First bolt
0:30 - 2nd
0:55 - 3rd
1:15 - 4th
1:30 - 5th
1:40
1:50
2:00
2:10 etc.

Last week I finally got a real good pattern going and got them to cycle 3 times with no CC besides holy wrath every once in a while.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby mosa » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:56 am

I'm just wondering if Onyxia as her health gets low increases the quickness of her electric charge? We were working on the two crackles, and then swapping too Ony who has about 1.5 Mill health at this point, but it seemed like she would then blow us up. We had swapped a dps around to be a 3rd tank just to get his feel for kiting the adds, (obv we won't be running that way when we have mechanics down, and yes I know crackle ups her stacks)

Poor timing / slow dps, or does her electric charge increase in some manner.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Belloc » Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:08 am

mosa wrote:I'm just wondering if Onyxia as her health gets low increases the quickness of her electric charge? We were working on the two crackles, and then swapping too Ony who has about 1.5 Mill health at this point, but it seemed like she would then blow us up. We had swapped a dps around to be a 3rd tank just to get his feel for kiting the adds, (obv we won't be running that way when we have mechanics down, and yes I know crackle ups her stacks)

Poor timing / slow dps, or does her electric charge increase in some manner.
I don't think her charge rate increases based on health. I think we usually have her lower than 1.5 million before the second electrocute and it's never been an issue.

I'm guessing it's a DPS problem.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Chunes » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:37 pm

Ulrik wrote:I just start the game stopwatch and remember the cast times so I know when safe times to stun/cc and run are.

Starting with the first Shadowbolt they come out 5 sec quicker each one until they're 10 sec apart.

0:00 - First bolt
0:30 - 2nd
0:55 - 3rd
1:15 - 4th
1:30 - 5th
1:40
1:50
2:00
2:10 etc.

Last week I finally got a real good pattern going and got them to cycle 3 times with no CC besides holy wrath every once in a while.


If your add tank is anything like me, they're completely unable to remember arbitrary minute counts unless there is a piece of paper taped to the monitor.

I suggest the add tank just run with BigWigs boss mod rather than DXE or DBM until both of them incorporate a decent timer for shadow bolt casts.
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby mosa » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:19 am

Hey all

Need some clarification on a couple things. Spent a good 3 hours on Nef last night and after working on mechanics and getting everyone tuned we were working on phase 3 where really as the add tank I think the fight sorta lives/dies by my success/failure.

Does the spit always go towards a dead add? Basically what I'm asking is if I have a group on me will the spit be cast on a dead add behind the group? Or do I need to be watching to move them and the dead add will be eventually be rezed by the flame when it expands to them?

How many crackles are you guys pushing in the phases? We were aiming for 2 in p1 and setting him up to crackle at the start of p3. I"m wondering if we should be more aggressive with it and use hero to push 3 crackles in P1, and defiantly push a crackle in P2?

We are tanking Nef in the center, and having the Nef tank 180 the boss when I get close to the head. I also have a pally healer with righteous fury on to help with healing agro.

We were getting him to 20ish percent before things were getting out of control...I want to see this guy die and get our titles !
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Re: [10] Nefarian: Suggestion

Postby Kerriodos » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:01 am

mosa wrote:Hey all

Need some clarification on a couple things. Spent a good 3 hours on Nef last night and after working on mechanics and getting everyone tuned we were working on phase 3 where really as the add tank I think the fight sorta lives/dies by my success/failure.

Does the spit always go towards a dead add? Basically what I'm asking is if I have a group on me will the spit be cast on a dead add behind the group? Or do I need to be watching to move them and the dead add will be eventually be rezed by the flame when it expands to them?


No. He picks a random add to target. It will often be the last one you want it to be in any possibly-shitty situation.

How many crackles are you guys pushing in the phases? We were aiming for 2 in p1 and setting him up to crackle at the start of p3. I"m wondering if we should be more aggressive with it and use hero to push 3 crackles in P1, and defiantly push a crackle in P2?


This is how we manage 25 man. On our original 10 man kill I believe we pushed 2 in phase 1 and 2 during phase 2 (kill 2 adds, leave one low so that you can kill it on demand while your ranged nuke the shit out of the boss. You have about 2:30-3:00 before he transitions anyways). This put us in a pretty comfortable spot, and it took about the same amount of time to kill him from this point in 10 man as it does from 10% higher in 25 man--about three to three and a half minute.

We are tanking Nef in the center, and having the Nef tank 180 the boss when I get close to the head. I also have a pally healer with righteous fury on to help with healing agro.

We were getting him to 20ish percent before things were getting out of control...I want to see this guy die and get our titles !


Remember that if you die for whatever reason, your raid can use AoE-fears, Hungering Cold, Army of the Dead, stuns, whatever you have to eke out the last few percent. While the CC's wont last very long on high-stack adds, Nef's health drops extremely fast.
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