[10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Belloc » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:57 am

Anything above 0 corruption before phase 2 means that your raiders are failing at some aspect of the fight. That very fact is why your healers don't believe that they can 2 heal it. Also, if you were to make it to phase 2, corruption levels would wipe you before you killed the boss. If your rogue is at 70-80 corruption, he either needs to learn to play or be replaced -- that much corruption is 100% unacceptable and he is causing you more harm than good. If you could replace him with someone doing 3k less dps, but didn't fail at corruption, your raid would do better (because they wouldn't be shadowbolting random raid members for half the fight).

Your raiders need to learn to avoid crashes, interrupt the spells properly, interrupt worship (which avenger's shield can do on its own, with proper stacking), and not get meleed by the bloods. Once you can do those, your 3 healers will be so bored that you'll be ready to 2 heal it.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Shathus » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:41 am

My guess is that the rogue is getting hit by the slime adds more that other mechanics as to why his corruption is so high. Especially with only 2 ranged
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Crimsonheart » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:28 am

I have not beaten it yet, but if your rogue is getting hit by slimes he is playing wrong, during the movement transition he should be Tricksing the mage (or the current chogoll tank, preferablly mage) to ensure that the melee, including him, do not pull threat on the adds. This also gives him 6seconds of 0 threat, which does wonders for rogue aoe.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Belloc » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:18 am

The adds spawn with threat on random players and I don't believe that it is easy (if at all possible) to pull them off (my felguard, who does enough damage to pretty much solo them, has never pulled aggro on them).
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby domipal » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:13 pm

our comp has changed to having 3 ranged 2 melee (spriest, ele, and hunter) so adds *should* be easier now. I am going to try to ask one of the druids to go boomkin for just 1 attempt and see what the healers think tonight. Hopefully we can get him to p2 and even down him tonight
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Koatanga » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:33 pm

Crimsonheart wrote:I have not beaten it yet, but if your rogue is getting hit by slimes he is playing wrong, during the movement transition he should be Tricksing the mage (or the current chogoll tank, preferablly mage) to ensure that the melee, including him, do not pull threat on the adds. This also gives him 6seconds of 0 threat, which does wonders for rogue aoe.

It's even better, as it gives him 6 seconds of increasing someone else's threat. He has to overcome that threat in order to pull.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Belloc » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:09 pm

Koatanga wrote:
Crimsonheart wrote:I have not beaten it yet, but if your rogue is getting hit by slimes he is playing wrong, during the movement transition he should be Tricksing the mage (or the current chogoll tank, preferablly mage) to ensure that the melee, including him, do not pull threat on the adds. This also gives him 6seconds of 0 threat, which does wonders for rogue aoe.

It's even better, as it gives him 6 seconds of increasing someone else's threat. He has to overcome that threat in order to pull.

Again, I'm pretty sure that this info is inaccurate. I've never seen the Bloods switch target -- even when taunting them. They fixate on random players -- the only time a melee should ever attack them is if they have a way of telling which ones are aggroed on them (threatplates, for instance). Tricks won't do anything.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby inthedrops » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:17 pm

Belloc wrote:
Koatanga wrote:
Crimsonheart wrote:I have not beaten it yet, but if your rogue is getting hit by slimes he is playing wrong, during the movement transition he should be Tricksing the mage (or the current chogoll tank, preferablly mage) to ensure that the melee, including him, do not pull threat on the adds. This also gives him 6seconds of 0 threat, which does wonders for rogue aoe.

It's even better, as it gives him 6 seconds of increasing someone else's threat. He has to overcome that threat in order to pull.

Again, I'm pretty sure that this info is inaccurate. I've never seen the Bloods switch target -- even when taunting them. They fixate on random players -- the only time a melee should ever attack them is if they have a way of telling which ones are aggroed on them (threatplates, for instance). Tricks won't do anything.


While I'm not completely certain either, there are plenty of times on Heroic cho'gall where I did nothing to the oozes but still had one agro'd onto me, while at about 20% health, and there's no way I did that myself. It makes me think Belloc is correct. I've never done the fight not tanking so I can't say with any certainty.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby maurok » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:42 pm

Belloc wrote:
Koatanga wrote:
Crimsonheart wrote:I have not beaten it yet, but if your rogue is getting hit by slimes he is playing wrong, during the movement transition he should be Tricksing the mage (or the current chogoll tank, preferablly mage) to ensure that the melee, including him, do not pull threat on the adds. This also gives him 6seconds of 0 threat, which does wonders for rogue aoe.

It's even better, as it gives him 6 seconds of increasing someone else's threat. He has to overcome that threat in order to pull.

Again, I'm pretty sure that this info is inaccurate. I've never seen the Bloods switch target -- even when taunting them. They fixate on random players -- the only time a melee should ever attack them is if they have a way of telling which ones are aggroed on them (threatplates, for instance). Tricks won't do anything.

Belloc's info seems accurate.

My group tried to use glyphed Hand of Salvation so melees would be able to hit for 10s without generating any threat (and considering that our moonkin was exploding shrooms and with starfall on when the adds spawns, he'd EASILY take any threat after)... the theory was great
but we noticed that some bloods were hitting the melees with glyphed HoSalv on them even before they started to dps (we checked the log after).
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Treck » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:56 am

When the adds spawn they start with smth like 500k threat on their current target, the adds cannot be taunted, and they go for their "main" target.
If that target would to die, the add goes for the 2nd on threat.
It is not possible to "overaggro" the initial threat their target get unless they die.

Note that smth like 2 weeks ago chogall adds were bugged, and didnt spawn properly with pre-aggro on people, making them just go for whoever makes most threat on them.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby domipal » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:15 pm

with all the magic damage going out on this fight would it be better to gem for stamina instead of mastery for this fight? I am sitting at 90% CTC unbuffed, and 148k HP. If I regem i would be at 170k+ HP.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Hrobertgar » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:30 am

I would think it would be simpler to swap a trinket rather than regem, or adjust your elixirs/flasks.

Personally, when I tank it I take a prismatic elixir for magic fights, and the mastery elixir. I do use the free guild cauldron flask sometimes, but I've found the elixirs do give me better survivability on magic intense fights than the 300 stam flasks. At least my health seems to stay a higher fraction with the elixirs.

Once the stam flasks are upgraded to 450, this may change.

Using the 900 armor elixir basically reduces physical damage taken by like ~ 2.5% (go from ~60.2% off of 40.2K armor to ~ 61.3% off of 41.1K armor. ~1% base mitigation but ~2.5% effective). Whereas 95 magic resistance is like ~ 10% magic dmg reduction. So on fights where magical damage sources are more than about ~20% of total, prismatic elixir is often really good.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Shathus » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:43 am

I've been debating whether it's worth using the DP glyph on this fight. I currently use the Tol Barad trinket (+magic resistence) whenever I can, and this would basically turn DP into the same thing. A 1 minute CD each, you'd have a pretty good uptime chaining them together.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby Epimer » Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:21 am

I don't know that there's any particular mechanic on Cho'gall normal mode which would favour stamina stacking over more standard gearing. On our most recent kill, 55% of my damage taken was from boss melee hits; the other tank was 59% melee damage.

Of the rest, there's the Shadow AoE, which doesn't hit hard enough to kill you unless something's going horribly wrong, the final phase damage, which isn't high enough to risk a tank's life, and Flaming Destruction, the fire damage from Cho'gall's fire phase. That phase was the most likely thing to kill tanks when we were learning, but only if you either a) don't use a cooldown for it, which you should be doing or b) stand in fire, the solution to which should be fairly obvious. Ditto getting hit by the shadow crash things.
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Re: [10] Cho'gall -- Normal Strategy

Postby domipal » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:19 pm

yeah i'm using the DP glyph as well as the TB resist trinket. Our closest attempt last night was 14% which is decent i guess, hopefully gonna switch out the spriest for a lock/mage this week.
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