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[10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Azash » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:59 pm

Chunes wrote:
Azash wrote:Spent last night wiping on Magmaw. I was having the same problem with Guardian. Even when I popped it right before being picked up during Mangle.
It didn't seem to be reducing damage.


Didn't check your logs, but have you tried using AD or the 20% cooldown when he eats you? Also remember that when you're in his mouth, you're in range of his head, so keep attacking it and use your holy power to wog yourself as needed.

I run my full wog spec for this fight and have even switched to SoI when he eats me for extra healing since threat is irrelevant in the eat/impale phase.


Thanks for the help. Picked up on the switching to the head during my read through. Took a couple of attempts but we finally killed him. Hand of Protection made a difference during our final Mangle phase as the heals were getting low on mana at that point.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Sturmm:) » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:31 pm

My guild has just started raiding again and this was the first boss we've attempted. I'd really like to know if there is a trick to dealing with the trash just before Magmaw, we've downed them but not without popping all CDs (including DS) and praying that i or the other tank don't die. Our tactic for the 2 Drudges is to tank them on opposite sides of the room and let them charge and switch tanks, but that's when the pain starts, is there something special that can be done to avoid or at least limit the damage at this point? (this is 10man btw)

Our boss tactic seems to be working OK, just needs more practice but i'm really hating the trash and can't find any guides or strats anywhere to help, so that's why i'm here.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Belloc » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:59 pm

Sturmm:) wrote:My guild has just started raiding again and this was the first boss we've attempted. I'd really like to know if there is a trick to dealing with the trash just before Magmaw, we've downed them but not without popping all CDs (including DS) and praying that i or the other tank don't die. Our tactic for the 2 Drudges is to tank them on opposite sides of the room and let them charge and switch tanks, but that's when the pain starts, is there something special that can be done to avoid or at least limit the damage at this point? (this is 10man btw)

Our boss tactic seems to be working OK, just needs more practice but i'm really hating the trash and can't find any guides or strats anywhere to help, so that's why i'm here.

Pull the mobs to opposite walls, have the raid sit in the middle, and just kill them. Use cooldowns when they start hitting hard.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby inthedrops » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:02 pm

Belloc wrote:
Sturmm:) wrote:My guild has just started raiding again and this was the first boss we've attempted. I'd really like to know if there is a trick to dealing with the trash just before Magmaw, we've downed them but not without popping all CDs (including DS) and praying that i or the other tank don't die. Our tactic for the 2 Drudges is to tank them on opposite sides of the room and let them charge and switch tanks, but that's when the pain starts, is there something special that can be done to avoid or at least limit the damage at this point? (this is 10man btw)

Our boss tactic seems to be working OK, just needs more practice but i'm really hating the trash and can't find any guides or strats anywhere to help, so that's why i'm here.

Pull the mobs to opposite walls, have the raid sit in the middle, and just kill them. Use cooldowns when they start hitting hard.


Yup, kill them at the same time too. We just have DPS stay on one tanks target the whole time until 20%, then the ranged switch over. It's not very scientific, we just try to kill them at about the same time. When your target "leaves" for the other tank, use a cooldown. And keep tanking your "new" target.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Shathus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:49 am

I've been trying to determine whether we should solo tank this fight or not on 10 man. I'm sure the answer is one of those "well depends on your raid's gear". It's me and a bear tank. A holy priest and resto shaman. If we go 2 tanks, we'll have a disc priest for a 3rd healer, else it would probably be me switching to Holy and the bear solo tanking. My main concern is if the other priest goes to healing, 2 only have 2 ranged left (hunter and demo warlock). Between traps and the lock's felguard, is that going to be enough dps to take the adds down?
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Chunes » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:38 pm

Shathus wrote:I've been trying to determine whether we should solo tank this fight or not on 10 man. I'm sure the answer is one of those "well depends on your raid's gear". It's me and a bear tank. A holy priest and resto shaman. If we go 2 tanks, we'll have a disc priest for a 3rd healer, else it would probably be me switching to Holy and the bear solo tanking. My main concern is if the other priest goes to healing, 2 only have 2 ranged left (hunter and demo warlock). Between traps and the lock's felguard, is that going to be enough dps to take the adds down?


Yes solo tank this, my raid did it in crafted epics, an average of half the epic rep rewards and the rest dungeon blues. Not sure on the ranged DPS requirement for the grubs, I never watch them. I have heard that locks are stupid OP for killing them though if their felguard does his WW stun ability. I'd imagine you'd be fine.

Solo tanking in early gear will likely require you to glyph/spec to maximize your self healing. I did it in my threat setup last night and did just fine, but I have pretty decent gear. On our first two kills, I was full out wog spec and wog optimized and my healers said they really felt the difference.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby PsiVen » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:29 pm

The fight is so much easier to heal with 2 tanks that there's really only one question in my mind: Do you gain add DPS when you drop a tank? If the answer is no, then don't do it. You don't need to add melee DPS on Magmaw. If the answer is yes, go for it. Controlling the worms better will make the fight easier too.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Shathus » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:10 pm

PsiVen wrote:The fight is so much easier to heal with 2 tanks that there's really only one question in my mind: Do you gain add DPS when you drop a tank? If the answer is no, then don't do it. You don't need to add melee DPS on Magmaw. If the answer is yes, go for it. Controlling the worms better will make the fight easier too.


Chunes wrote:Yes solo tank this, my raid did it in crafted epics, an average of half the epic rep rewards and the rest dungeon blues. Not sure on the ranged DPS requirement for the grubs, I never watch them. I have heard that locks are stupid OP for killing them though if their felguard does his WW stun ability. I'd imagine you'd be fine.

Solo tanking in early gear will likely require you to glyph/spec to maximize your self healing. I did it in my threat setup last night and did just fine, but I have pretty decent gear. On our first two kills, I was full out wog spec and wog optimized and my healers said they really felt the difference.


Lol 2 different responses, well, kind of. @PsiVen, yes we would gain extra add DPS solo tanking.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... e/advanced bear (or boomkin)
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/s ... s/advanced me (or holy) i think i havve my dps trinkets on now, just replace them with mastery ones.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Trav » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:06 pm

We had our bear go Boomkin tonight. I solo tanked in blues (and even one green)...338 iLevel. I started SoT/SoR, then when I had a decent threat lead, switched seals to insight and went WoG. I popped DP and trinkets when I could, saved the 3-min timers for Mangle. When the head came down, I switched back to SoT/SoR for the 2x damage During P2. Switch back when you reestablish threat when P1 hits again. If you have good healers, solo tanking is doable.

We had:

Me (Prot Pal)
Ret Pal
Rogue
Hunter
Demo Lock
Boomkin
Ele Shammy
Holy Pal (Pugged, but good)
Resto Druid
Holy Priest

Solo tanking is definitely doable if you have good healers.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Chunes » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:03 pm

I don't think your healers have to be STELLAR or anything, but they have to be decent like Trav says.

If your healers can't keep you up through mangles (mitigated by cooldowns), I'm going to go out on a limb and say either your raid is bad at avoiding avoidable damage, thus placing unneeded burden on your healers, or your healers are just bad.

Two tanks on this fight is complete overkill in my opinion.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Shathus » Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:50 am

So we went against the worm last night. We didn't kill him, but by the end we knew what we were doing. We probably should have killed him on our last attempt, the melee messed up in the chaining him so we didn't get him impaled and I was mangled for 25 secs and died. Oh well, we'll get him next week.

The one thing was the adds, while we were handling them and no one was getting infected, it seemed like they were taking awhile to die, and I wasn't sure what is normal. It seemed like we had maybe 5 seconds from the last add dying to the next Pillar cast. We even ended up with an extra ranged (Surv hunter, demo lock, boomkin and fire mage). Normally the group should have an unholy DK instead of the mage, so I worry that the loss of a ranged DPS means we won't be able to get the adds down in time.

Also, I switched glyphs to be more healing oriented (WoG and SoI) and good lord did I notice my low hit and expertise. I think my opening SotR missed/dodged like 4 times in a row. I was ready to kill a baby.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Belloc » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:36 am

With that comp, the adds should be dead with at least 10 seconds before the next spawn. I guarantee you that your demo lock was doing it wrong.

Again, as soon as the pillar hits, the warlock needs to target a parasite, send in the felguard, hand of gul'dan, felstorm, and hellfire. If the felguard is there early, he'll get hit by the pillar and be worthless for a bit.

I don't know what your hunter should've been doing, but I'm thinking that survival is supposed to be excellent AOE DPS.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Shathus » Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:40 am

Belloc wrote:With that comp, the adds should be dead with at least 10 seconds before the next spawn. I guarantee you that your demo lock was doing it wrong.

Again, as soon as the pillar hits, the warlock needs to target a parasite, send in the felguard, hand of gul'dan, felstorm, and hellfire. If the felguard is there early, he'll get hit by the pillar and be worthless for a bit.

I don't know what your hunter should've been doing, but I'm thinking that survival is supposed to be excellent AOE DPS.


Looking at the logs now... here is a portion of the first parasite spawns. Looks like the lock did Hand of Gul'dan, had the felguard felstorm, but did Rain of Fire instead of hellfire. The hunter laid ice trap then looks like she just did multi-shot on them.

Originally the strat was that everyone (healer/melee/ranged) was grouped up right behind Magmaw at the edge of the ledge with the hunter out by herself at ranged. As my understand was, the Pillar should always spawn on her, she would lay her trap and ranged switch and AoE down.

The problem seemed to be that they would split up (half going to the hunter, and the other half going towards the rest of the group, so the AoE wouldn't be as effective. I was telling the hunter to just kite them 'in a circle' around the frost so they'd just stay in the same spot, but often she would just kite them straight back. Sometimes getting out of healer range, also if you get too far out of range it seems the next Pillar of Flame would drop right on everyone else.

We didn't have any success until all the ranged were grouped up together, then when the Pillar came, would move together to the other side (solved the problem of the adds splitting up. Seemed like a lot more work though.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Trav » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:28 pm

Shathus wrote:We didn't have any success until all the ranged were grouped up together, then when the Pillar came, would move together to the other side (solved the problem of the adds splitting up. Seemed like a lot more work though.


That's the way we did it. My guess is, the other way, your healers were drawing aggro faster than the hunter could establish threat to kite. Plus, I'm not sure if Blizz is still using this, but typically since Udluar fights with a ranged ability from the boss that would be a disaster if they were cast into melee have a minimum number of people needed at ranged to avoid a cast into melee. I think with General you needed 8/25 at range (presumably 4/10 in ten man) so that shadow crash wasn't cast at melee. Magmaw's mechanic for pillar may be the same, so it would be desirable to keep use the successful strat for that reason, too.

Also, make sure your lock is aware of the strategy Belloc mentioned...I actually read the post on page 1 of this thread almost word for word in vent to ours, and we took very little time to learn how to handle the adds. Our lock's Felguard liked going back to the boss, though, and bringing some of the adds that way with him, so be on the lookout for that. Probably happened after the targeted worm died.
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Re: [10] Magmaw - tastes like chicken!

Postby Belloc » Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:49 pm

Shathus wrote:
Belloc wrote:With that comp, the adds should be dead with at least 10 seconds before the next spawn. I guarantee you that your demo lock was doing it wrong.

Again, as soon as the pillar hits, the warlock needs to target a parasite, send in the felguard, hand of gul'dan, felstorm, and hellfire. If the felguard is there early, he'll get hit by the pillar and be worthless for a bit.

I don't know what your hunter should've been doing, but I'm thinking that survival is supposed to be excellent AOE DPS.


Looking at the logs now... here is a portion of the first parasite spawns. Looks like the lock did Hand of Gul'dan, had the felguard felstorm, but did Rain of Fire instead of hellfire. The hunter laid ice trap then looks like she just did multi-shot on them.

Originally the strat was that everyone (healer/melee/ranged) was grouped up right behind Magmaw at the edge of the ledge with the hunter out by herself at ranged. As my understand was, the Pillar should always spawn on her, she would lay her trap and ranged switch and AoE down.

The problem seemed to be that they would split up (half going to the hunter, and the other half going towards the rest of the group, so the AoE wouldn't be as effective. I was telling the hunter to just kite them 'in a circle' around the frost so they'd just stay in the same spot, but often she would just kite them straight back. Sometimes getting out of healer range, also if you get too far out of range it seems the next Pillar of Flame would drop right on everyone else.

We didn't have any success until all the ranged were grouped up together, then when the Pillar came, would move together to the other side (solved the problem of the adds splitting up. Seemed like a lot more work though.


Generally, my felguard ends up keeping the parasites in place once the felstorm starts (he has aggro at that point), but I understand that hunters put out quite a bit of damage, so it's not too surprising to think that they might chase him :P But, yeah, we do move between two alternating positions just so the adds always go the same direction, so good choice there.

Just make sure your warlock starts using hellfire. The range on it is big enough that you can hit all of the adds without getting infected and the damage is much better for a demo warlock.

Trav wrote:
Also, make sure your lock is aware of the strategy Belloc mentioned...I actually read the post on page 1 of this thread almost word for word in vent to ours, and we took very little time to learn how to handle the adds. Our lock's Felguard liked going back to the boss, though, and bringing some of the adds that way with him, so be on the lookout for that. Probably happened after the targeted worm died.

Thank you for mentioning the part about the felguard going back to the boss... I kept having that problem as well and I forgot to include how I deal with it.

After my felguard has started felstorming and I've begun my hellfire, I'll start tabbing through the parasites and every time I see a parasite with more health than the rest, I'll tell my felguard to attack it. It's a bit of pet management, but it's pretty easy to handle once you realize that it has to be done. And it's not like you have much else to do when you're hellfiring.
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